Forums › English Language Forums › General › General Discussion

Search

What are the real advantages to multiplayer vs. playing solo?

27 replies [Last post]
Mon, 09/17/2012 - 08:38
Marthedge

I'm being serious when I ask this question, I'm aware you can get more minerals via doing this but really what advantage is there to splitting your loot, your hp pills/vials and having the enemy's health being increased based on how many people there are in the party?
It seems to me that the one advantage simply doesn't pay off very well and I've found myself dying more-oft' trying to work as a team, it's why I've been soloing for a while now.
You can manipulate the enemies a lot easier in solo gameplay because the enemy attention isn't split up, and while that makes some players nervous via the thoughts of getting cornered and trying to handle it alone, it's slightly difficult to actually get cornered and not too many situations where that occurs actually happen.
I've probably gotten cornered all of 5 times in the hours I've logged for several months and generally every day.

Now, I'm aware of people actually coordinating and working together to achieve pretty great strategies but even people going solo can take care of it with less issues and less effort (generally that is).

What do you think about this?
Really, I'm curious, I personally think they should have more benefits for party play so it isn't something that is a deterrent on actually wanting to play with your friends, and this is coming from someone who tries to solo everything even with such an option.
It just seems like the disadvantages of having a party outweigh the advantages of playing solo.

By all means, I don't care if you tell me I'm wrong or right (most likely the former, possibly), I'm just interested in your opinion on this matter.

EDIT: I'm also aware that the other advantage is reviving without using energy, however that costs HP and sometimes that can get annoying with having to share HP capsules.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 09:02
#1
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

This comes up in my normal habitat every once in a while.

Personally, I always say we need a secondary version of the Clockworks completely separate from the existing systems (Arcade, missions) which relies heavily on party play, using certain weapons (the majority of loot is locked behind traps which require certain weapon types to activate but do not have to be accessed to continue), and more puzzle based gameplay over smashing your face on buttons for a few seconds until everything is squishy: "T4+". From how I imagine it, "T4+" would be its own system but contain significantly more field puzzle based gameplay but enemies have more health to take a couple extra hits before dropping.

More intelligence based gameplay, less button mashing.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 09:46
#2
Marthedge
@Luguiru

A very nice idea, I'm pretty sure that would encourage more party-play than there already is.
I still wonder if they can change a few mechanics around to make it so party play could be at least a little more encouraged than it already is.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 09:57
#3
Rthree
One of the main reasons to go

One of the main reasons to go party is sometimes your internet lags out causing you to die through no fault of your own. Atleast if you are with someone else you don't have to spend mist to revive.

Another benefit is heat farming.

Shadow lairs are cheaper when you split the key cost.

You can also have more weapon variety during the run

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:17
#4
Valentine-Vk's picture
Valentine-Vk
maybe they could increase the

maybe they could increase the drop rates or rare materials/items when you're in a party so you're more likely to obtain hard-to-get mats as a group.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:40
#5
Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick

As far as I know, the increase of health per extra member is linear, meaning each player adds the same amount of health as the next. The possible damage, however, is not. This is simply due to the ability to use weapon combinations that would normally be hard to achieve (E-Vortex+4 Brandish charges).

Having monster aggro split up is not always a bad thing. In a party, you generally only have to deal with one fourth of the enemies.

When solo, some of your damage is wasted because monster health is so low that your last swing is just to finish them off. Also, most damage bonuses don't make an actuall difference as to the number of times you need to attack.

Heat sharing.

Most people can't solo Vanaduke.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:53
#6
Redblades's picture
Redblades
cant solo vana?

cant solo vana? /stare
da heck? all you need is vog cub, a brandish and a volcanic plate shield. no matter how you suck you will survive >.> unless you're giving heat...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 16:36
#7
Vluxor's picture
Vluxor
just go solo. you get better

just go solo. you get better at the game by going solo, and you have more advantages unless it is shadow lair or something.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:46
#8
Marthedge
@Oatmonster and @Rthree

Thanks for your insight on this matter.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:50
#9
Princeberton's picture
Princeberton
Live Long and prosper

Plus, crowns scale up with party size. That's always nice

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 19:22
#10
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Even if there wasnt a real benefit, this is an online multiplayer game designed to have fun with random people.

Like thats the purpose of the game, even if they give the option to do it solo.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:30
#11
Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick

@Redblades, Brandishes don't seem like great weapons for fighting Vana. Unless your confused and you think the Fire Storm Citadel is actually called Vanaduke.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 20:48
#12
Kilbride's picture
Kilbride
DAHN! DAHN!

As others have already said, some content is more manageable with teammates.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 21:16
#13
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Some of these have been mentioned before, but:
-You're not splitting loot, it's duplicated. The only thing split is mats and who gives a toss about mats? If you run with friends, chances are you can ask for the mat if you really need it.

-Have you ever had a 5 to 10-second lagspike? I do on a daily basis, and it's guaranteed death if you're in combat or anywhere close to a trap. It's very rare for this to happen to to players at the same time, so you're more likely to stay alive even if you just go with two people.

-There's a limit to how many pills a single person can carry. This limit is 4 times higher in a 4-man party, so you're leaving behind a lot less vials and other pickups.

-Co-op tactics! One player can use vortex, shivermist or some other support weapon while the other player has a much easier time inflicting loads of damage. The other players can cover you while you carry keys, waterballs and such.

-Enemy health gets increased per party member, but not linearly. Four players will clear a floor a lot faster than just one. This goes especially for open stages like Charred Court (second stage into FSC), where my parties typically split into groups of two.

-Honest question: Why would you play this game solo? The entire reason I play SK is because it's 4-player co-op Zelda Bomberman. If viewed in the light of being a single-player game then, well... it sucks! This is a terrible single-player game! It's one of the worst single-player action games I've ever played! There are a million better single-player offline action games out there where you're not bothered by forced, always-online DRM, money-grinding per piece of equipment measured in days and your favourite weapon suddenly becoming a piece of junk right before your eyes. Why would you play SK solo when you could be playing literally any other action game out there? They're faster-paced, better balanced, more complex, deeper, has more bosses, has more variation in their enemies and weapons, look better, have no lagspikes, have no server restarts, don't try extorting money out of you after you've purchased them nor will they pack you with any of the other bull you have to deal with when playing MMOs.

I have but a handful of reasons to play SK in the first place:
-I want to play with my friends
-I have friends from many corners of the world
-Maybe one or two of them have consoles, all of them have PCs. A lot of their PCs are crap, so I can't play most modern co-op PC games with them
-SK is initially free, and has relatively low system reqs (even if the performance is awful), so it's easy to get them to try it
-The slow pacing makes it a bit forgiving for poor latency and crappy computer specs

Spiral Knights is accessible for people with all kinds of computers, which makes it great for co-oping with friends, but as soon as you take out multiplayer the game has next to no merit left. The only unique thing I thought the game had going for it was that the Radiant Sun Shards was one of the most fun videogame weapons I've ever used and it's gone now.

Don't get me wrong, I find the game fun. For an MMO.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 23:42
#14
Marthedge
@Zeddy

I play solo because I like Zelda and lack anymore Zelda games to beat the tar out of.
I'm aware that playing multiplayer is always good fun but not many of my friends have been on it recently so that's about half my reasoning, the other is I consistently have bad experiences with parties no matter where I go.
I die at least twice as often as I would doing singleplayer, and that's implying that I die often enough in single player for it to even be that much, I usually get through the areas I go to with HP capsules to spare and no deaths, minus the occasional laggy snag you've mentioned (which I occasionally survive because I've learned that when it happens, it's best to put up your shield and hope for the best).
For me it's a frustrating experience trying to get people to work together, and it just doesn't yield much merit for the amount of effort I end up wasting in the end.
HP capsules, I'd be inclined to agree if they weren't getting eaten frequently (though that's just personal experience).
In the end I'm just trying to get my 5-star gear at the moment before I actually bother with parties again, otherwise I'll end up weighing down everyone else or I'll end up getting frustrated by my common experiences with trying to work together in parties (which may happen anyway despite my efforts).

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 06:54
#15
Quandasim's picture
Quandasim
its more easy in 4 ppls

advantages: 1 skeleton with 4x more live is more easy, than 4 skeletons with less live

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 14:33
#16
Dhmorgousbord's picture
Dhmorgousbord
Multiplayer is better. You

Multiplayer is better. You can't kill your friends with fire pots going solo. End of story

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 16:41
#17
Writhes's picture
Writhes
Um...

Multiplayer can go badly in the lower tiers, but at the end of tier 3 you will find a lot of players will not really hold you back at all. Now the advantage here is that more players can add to utility greatly.

One simple example is a player using a shivermist bomb to freeze mobs while another is nuking with polaris. You are both doing things completely different that create a effective combined play style that can't really be accomplished as effectively playing alone.

This might not seem that obvious in lower tiers because of the lack of gear and specialization, but it is highly visible in tier 3.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 16:39
#18
Writhes's picture
Writhes
noo

"advantages: 1 skeleton with 4x more live is more easy, than 4 skeletons with less live"

I don't think it scales by addition 100% per player but closer to 50% or 60%(Cant say for sure what the exact amount is.).

This is obvious if you test it. A mob that you killed with 2 hits alone might be 4 or 5 with a full party where as 100% per player would have been 8 hits with a full party.

I'm fairly sure this is to create leeway when playing with lesser geared or skilled players.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 02:16
#19
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Writhes

Let's say a player does 100 damage per hit, and the monster has 150 health.

In solo it takes 2 hits to kill the monster. With 2 players and 100% scaling the enemy would have 300 health and take 3 hits, just one more. In 4-player this monster would take 6 hits.

Assuming 120 health, we have a table like this:

1 player: 120 health, 2 hits
2 players: 240 health, 3 hits
3 players: 360 health, 4 hits
4 players: 480 health, 5 hits

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 04:51
#20
Aureate's picture
Aureate
Processing Thoughts of You Always

Pros:

  • Ability to revive without energy
  • More mineral carrying ability
  • More versatility in weapons, allowing players to specialise
  • Several players are more likely to have the equipment amongst them to deal with a situation
  • Players can use mist energy to tab someone for elevator costs if necessary
  • More heat can be gathered than a single person would get, via heat transfer (dying on purpose)
  • Allows for teamwork, making it possible to deal with situations more effectively
  • Allows for faster play, areas can be explored faster with more people

Cons:

  • Reduced material drops per person
  • Reduced chance of equipment drops per person
  • Some players can actively harm chances of survival (careless shieldbumping, Nitronome/Polaris spam)
  • Some players are jerks who will kick at the slightest provocation, causing heat loss
  • More players cause the health of enemies to increase accordingly
  • Some players are not wearing suitable equipment for the level, causing them to be dead weight
  • Players who repeatedly die leech off the health of the other members of the party when revived, and increase enemy health without compensating
  • Other players will compete for consumable pickups and vitapods

Personally, I generally prefer to play with one other person. This allows for some variety in weapons, and means that players can split up to clear areas without adding excessive health to enemies.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 05:08
#21
Kxdx's picture
Kxdx
did writhes really just correct Quandasim's statement?

Did writhes really just correct Quandasim's statement and zeddy back it up with sound maths?
I lol'd because I didn't expect anyone to "correct" his theoretical statement.

@ on topic
"advantages: 1 skeleton with 4x more live is more easy, than 4 skeletons with less live"
"more players can add to utility"
"some content is more manageable with teammates."
"crowns scale up with party size"
and finally "You can't kill your friends with fire pots going solo"
these are the best/funniest answers I found while reading.

Good topic, good posts +1 cookie.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 05:27
#22
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
Aureate pretty much answered

Aureate pretty much answered it all. Playing solo is fine if you either never die or have limitless ce for revives, or if you are utterly convinced that no one in the game is as good as you, but there's more to it than just going in and smashing stuff around. Strategies change in groups, more can be done and played about with. For example, as a bomber, if I go solo I have to hybrid up so I have access to everything I'll need, which sacrifices some of my preferred weapons. I can do it, safely and easily. However, if I get in a group, I can focus purely on what I want to do, and therein make the job easier for others who might have more trouble on their own.

Of course, it isn't to say "bigger parties are better", it's all about getting the right party. I find duo's to work nicely, as it has all the benefits of parties (specialisation, party rev etc) without increasing difficulty by any worthwhile amount. Having a 4 man party can help in certain places (such as Ashen Armoury, which just takes bloody ages to solo; a group can pan that level in two minutes) but it can also hurt; such as C42, where the monsters having more health just isn't worth it at all.

But most importantly, it really just comes down to the fact that it's an MMO. Play with others, get involved in the game the way it was designed to be. They didn't make the levels specifically for people to solo; they made them FOR groups, then just put in some failsafes for when people do solo. Just have fun with it.

Guilds and friends are generally more reliable than PuGs, though...

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 13:22
#23
Writhes's picture
Writhes
well...

"Let's say a player does 100 damage per hit, and the monster has 150 health.

In solo it takes 2 hits to kill the monster. With 2 players and 100% scaling the enemy would have 300 health and take 3 hits, just one more. In 4-player this monster would take 6 hits.

Assuming 120 health, we have a table like this:

1 player: 120 health, 2 hits
2 players: 240 health, 3 hits
3 players: 360 health, 4 hits
4 players: 480 health, 5 hits"

Well I suppose I didn't really think about overkill damage. I suppose my example is a bad one, so I guess the only way to know for sure what the scale is would be to look it up.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 16:03
#24
Kalaina-Elderfall's picture
Kalaina-Elderfall
What matters most is average

What matters most is average competence per party member. If you're solo and you're good, the game is easy. If you're in a group of four and all four of you are good, the game is VERY easy. But if you're in a group of four and only one or two of you is good, the game gets harder. Because you have less HP due to reviving others and having less access to health capsules.

Being able to die without having to energy rev can be a huge deal in that it lets you relax. If you're solo you have to be on top of the game 100% of the time, but in a party run you can die if you accidentally run onto spikes or something and it's not a big deal that you died.

Having other people to shoulder the burden when you derp is again an average competence thing; if 90% of the time you're good and 10% of the time you're a blundering idiot, then solo you're going to die because of that 10% of the time and have to energy revive, and in a party the other party members will shoulder the burden of playing well in that 10% of the time and the party will be successful.

Playing in groups is also more fun for people who enjoy the social aspects of the game. I find soloing dreadfully boring even though I'm plenty good to be able to do it without revives.

Wed, 09/19/2012 - 21:24
#25
Gulliverbfg's picture
Gulliverbfg
As a solo Dauntless Delver, my own preference is both

@ Aureate Gave a good summary of the objective list
@ Kalaina-Elderfall Gave a good summary of the subjective reasons

As a solo Dauntless Delver, I have dived 29 levels solo several times (when I had an Elevator Pass). I have beaten everything solo but Vana and OCH T3. I will likely do that someday. I have also never dived a Shadow Lair, solo or otherwise. I may do that too someday in a party, but not likely solo because the key cost is insane.

Having said all that, my own preference is both.

I solo a lot just to develop game skills, and sometimes I feel like playing alone just to unwind or relax. I strongly believe that all players, especially new players, should solo more than dive in groups to develop natural skills in this game. Especially when building up a pre-5* character. In any other game, we gamers usually go beat the single player version before playing much multiplayer, or do both simultaneously. This is no different.

I've been gaming since before there were online games. We used to improve dial-up performance by tweaking AT codes on our modems firmware. So I completely ignore lag kills as a variable in this discussion. Lag kills no matter if you are in a group or solo, so it is always a negative event. It is not any better to get lag killed in a group, just because there is somebody there to revive you. Blame the broadband provider, blame your cheap router, or even blame the game code for not being quite good enough, but lag kills are a neutral variable for me. No point arguing or disagreeing. It is just what I think. (Personally, I think OOO has come a long way in terms of improving game performance over the past year.)

I have a long friends list, and those are my most reliable party members. When it matters, I go to that list cause I hand picked them -- usually after playing with them, so I know them well. It is like my private guild. No rude, selfish, players get to stay on that list, even if they are in my guild. A few unskilled players are on my list, but I enjoy playing with them for different reasons.

Gaming with parties (PUGs, guild and friends) has its own set of pros and cons. It can be the very best experience, and equals the feeling of accomplishment you get when you beat a tough room alone. Maybe in a different way, they each have their own best moments. I can tell you that my worst day solo, is better than an average day in a party. My worst day in a party, is the worst day in the game. On the other hand, some of my best days in the game, I never even went through a gate. I just hung out with friends in Haven.

I think the ultimate would be a group of good quality players who really like each other, play well together, and find success or failure together. Then take it in stride and keep playing for the fun of it. They win often, but don't take it too seriously. I have had moments like that, but have not found that group of four or more to form a consistent party yet. That would be the ultimate.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 08:53
#26
Starkythefox's picture
Starkythefox
I've been playing solo in the

I've been playing solo in the RJP mission. I have it almost dominated, if not full dominated if it wasn't because of bad lucks that can happen, but I may die 1 out of 10 mission I do (yeah I can solo the NE room of the second depth of RJP, the hardest room of the 4*)

Today I played with a friend, and it got harder. Why? Wasn't I good soloing?

Differences:

- Enemies are harder
- A monster that soloing can take you 3 hits and be alive, with two person means it can hurt you as it takes 5-6 hits
- Different tactics between me and my friend, some of my tactics when soloing were incompatible and/or dangerous.
- By dangerous I mean, dangerous for me (I'm charging a bomb, I got to the enemy, my partner went first, making the enemy charge the attack and when I go near, the enemy hits me) or dangerous for him (I used a Charged Attack that knock it back towards my partner)
-And if your partner(s) are just eager to attack first, that gets worse
- Enemies attention is split up.
- Attacks that were mostly avoidable turn into mostly unavoidable
- If it was a bad luck that when you were escaping from a slime that is about to attack, and you are out of range but then Lumber knockback that slime towards you and hurts you; with someone else that kind of situations and others grows
- Less pills to have means that in hard situations, you have more chance to die
- If it wasn't already bad when you had bad luck that no vitapod and/or pill was found, having someone else duplicates-quadruplicates that bad luck

*I didn't die in that place because I have lot of hearts and/or health pills; the fact that monsters are harder, I can't use most of my tactics, I have less pills, monster can block my way because my partner went to the opposite direction attracting monsters towards you and vice versa, and that that place is small and with spikes and bombs, doing that part has at least a minimum waste of 5me

He is full Star-4, I only have a 4-stars weapon (Silent Nightblade) and helmet (Seraphic Helm)

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 08:57
#27
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Damage bonuses with the right weapon negates the extra health on enemies up to a party of 3.
On RJP first level, each player can take a different room, making it faster.

It's all too subjective. Some combination will work better than others.

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system