First off, nick's announcement is here.
My first thought is how this will be represented with armor defense values. Only because these are the only number values we can see at a single click as opposed to relative value power meters. Will we actually see the numbers in our equip screens change to reflect this?
Otherwise I do think this is probably a good idea, it is boring fighting down from Haven with high tier equipment when your elevator pass expires.
Questions, questions everywhere!
That's all I really wanted to ask.
For now.
For now, an item's attack and defense power that it displays represents it's maximum potential. This potential is reached at the deepest point of its intended tier. Later on, we'll make some changes to tooltips to reflect these new changes.
Shoebox: No, a 3 star item stops gaining power past tier 2. As for other things unlocking based on depth, yes, it's something we're always thinking about.
"Are rewards going to be scaled up to compensate for the increase in effort during the upper levels or will they stay the same?"
I'm wondering the same thing. Previously, It was challenging and difficult to solo sub-ember floors, nevertheless still POSSIBLE. Now, after extreme monster buffs and armor nerfs, it's pretty close to impossible to do it. Also, the crown rewards gained from sub-ember are about half of what it use to be. I remember one of the dev saying a run to the core is the "most profitable" way to earn crowns, but considering the energy needed to get down there (~80) + the energy revives needed if the "good" people aren't on (so you gotta pick up subtitutes that dies alot, which takes ur own hp and make you easier to be killed by monsters) makes the sub-ember run to be simply a way to not waste mist energy.
So my question is, are the rewards for reaching core going to increase?
I'm happy about the balancing stuff... Now it wont be super easy in Haven
I think the fact that they're implementing this way of messing with weapon's stats shows the flaw in their current system after the rebalance. Which is that the equipment with lower stars becomes drastically worse when you go further down with it. The problem I have with this is that it essentially makes certain equipment worthless. For instance before the rebalance I could use a 2 star Spur just fine. Now there's no way I can use it anymore. And now higher starred equipment will become drastically worse the higher up you are? Nerfing good weapons into essentially lower starred weapons in places like Haven will just further encourage people NOT to go there. For one there is no reason to go there unless you want to buy the new gear (which isn't a real reason to go back to Haven continuously) and now on top of that your equipment gets nerfed as well? So essentially... you're going to make us use crappy weapons to get a crappy amount of crowns? Do you want people to completely avoid Haven at all costs?
The problem I have with this is that it essentially makes certain equipment worthless. For instance before the rebalance I could use a 2 star Spur just fine.
The problem is that you could do that at any level, making equipment entirely irrelevant.
They're trying to pace the game's content so people don't smash through to the core in a day after buying energy.
>I think the fact that they're implementing this way of messing with weapon's stats shows the flaw in their current system after the rebalance.
I think the fact that they're implementing this way of messing with weapon's stats shows that the game is still in development.
I hope that certain weapons/armor will gain in power beyond their current levels, as we approach the core. For example, many shields are basically useless close to the core, because enemy attack power increases much faster than shield strength. (even the ever-popular spikes become nigh-invincible) If that's fixed, I'll look forward to seeing the update.
Sounds very interesting!
And yes, please buff shield defence (shield health seems fine against the wrong attack types, but wolvers biting straight through a 4 star heavy plate shield and still damaging me when I'm several floors away from the core is just wrong)
Shields definitely need to be buffed, and even more so Helmets and Armor. Hopefully monsters will be nerfed as well, because by the core levels they basically kill you in 3 hits.
Speaking of HP, I just picked up a 24 Health Capsule... o_o Has anyone seen 24+ at all, aside from this?
Yes, I've seen a +30. It was in the core though, so it didn't help much :P
Yeah they must not be as rare as I suspected. I just found another +24 one at a treasure vault right before the core too, pretty useless.
On Topic: So yeah, about those Shields... I hope they are stronger afterwards. :P
Edit: Hahah, I just got a +30 in the Core as well. Ahh...
I think the upcoming release seems great. Right now I find it boring that with my current gear I don't really have a challenge anymore above a certain depth. Having a friend that you like to play with a little higher than you normally play makes it kinda hard to run along with him still because you are way overpowered. (unless you change equips to a lower starred one)
For shileds: I think the heavy plate shield is bugged? I have a Rock Jelly Shield at level 10 which is capable of taking in quite some hits before it breaks at depths below emberlight. Takes around 3-4 stone wolver bites if I'm right. I've also heard that the swiftstrike buckler lasts longer than the heavy plate shield, which seems a bit odd too.
So are you saying my 4-star Khorovod won't reach full power until i'm at level 28? That seems rather sucky. =/
Burninat0r you're seeing it the wrong way. Your Khorovod won't reach its full potential until you really need it. If I have it right, then the idea is to get rid of your weapon being overpowered at levels below its tier ranking. Because now you can go all the way to Emberlight with your Khorovod and kill most monsters in 1 or 2 hits. I don't really think that's the kind of fun you're looking for in a game? :p And face it, you will sometimes go below your tier ranking, be it to refresh an elevator key, or to simply play along with friends who are at a lower level still.
And I don't think, or atleast hope, that it'll take you to get till depth 28 before reaching the current full potential of your equipment. The first depth after Emberlight is already though enough with your equipment at it's max.
For what i understood, your khorovod will be stronger than its previous potential before this update. And will be at it's max probably before the floor 28, because of it's huge attack power.
Now a question that i asked some time ago, but i will reask it here: There is a speed cap for weapons, or i can equip 2 pieces of armors with speed increase ultra, a weapon with speed increase ultra, and 2 trinkets with attack speed ultra, and i will be kenshin with a khorovod, or it will be capped way before i turn to be that epic?
Hmm good question Cien, I wondered that too sometimes for the Vile Striker. It seems to already have around max speed, so what epicness or dissapointment would arrive from wielding that + Drake Scale Mail/Helm + Swiftstrike Buckler? :p
I tried that combo, doesn't seem to do much visually. However, I have noticed that it increases the potential for me to disturb monster's attack but I'm not sure if that's intentional via game mechanic or I am crazy.
I really like this change. So going through depth 1-18 is not as boring.
I like the upcoming changes too. It makes the Core sound so much more enticing, so mysterious! Weapons, seemingly at their limit above the surface, become so much more powerful as the Knights move closer to the Core. It's like the Core radiates a kind of energy that strengthens your equipment!
*squee*
What I like about this is actually counterbalancing the apparent monster defense scaling leading to much lower damage when getting lower. This part alone I'd actually revert - not for balance reasons (just increase mob health more accordingly), but it simply sucks psychologically to see your weapon do half the damage it did a few levels before against the visually same mobs. That would only be the case for weapons exceeding the current maximum tier though.
What I dislike is actually the lower tier downscaling. Part of any game that's based on any sort of progression should be feeling more powerful. At deeper levels with higher tier weapons you will generally not feel more powerful, though - that's fine, monsters are stronger. But if you don't feel more powerful on lower levels than you'd do before, that feels wrong.
@Fnord: I cannot agree enough. It's very disheartening to keep seeing your damage go lower and lower the farther down you go...
Fnord, according to nick's post, you will still feel more powerful with a higher tier weapon when you go closer to the surface. He said that you will still have an advantage damage-wise over lower tier swords, no matter at which depth you are.
Yeah.... watching monsters get more HP, higher defense, AND better healing abilities with depth has been rough, as it makes haven fights bland, and core fights very slow/tedious. Monsters were sort of triple-dipping in the rewards pool, and I look forward to seeing some changes that tweak that balance. It's a creative and kind of cool extension of the "level-based without levels" approach.
Of course, the other half of the "fun" equation (asymmetric rewards) still remains. Eventually, maybe we'll see some connection between adventures? Perhaps if deep levels required some sort of key item to unlock their full potential? Drop those keys only during haven or moorcroft runs, and suddenly I'd have all kinds of reasons to adventure up there. (and by linking future rewards to early adventures, the "raid content" aspect would be encouraged, as we'd only be able to access full raid content after a longer, more complete journey)
Obviously, I'm wildly speculating long-term. Meanwhile, it's great to see other cool developments as things continue to get more interesting and fun!
(Quick response: Vitapods and depth: At depth N, I expect to find vitapods of N+1, with the only exception being party lobbies.
So seeing N+2 behind a 3 energy door doesn't excite me unless I'm in a party and we're a few pods behind.
This means that at depth 24, I expect to see +25 vitapods.)
My first thought: This ruins the risk/reward payout / returns.
At shallower depths, you are now having increased risk with higher star items, but not getting any corresponding increase in rewards.
This will further segregate the population -- people with higher stars will have even less reason to play with people with lower stars.
(References to Dr. Suess and the bellies of creatures, asking how many stars on thar's.)
===
In general: There is a fundamental imbalance:
Adventuring deeper gives you huge increase in heat and crowns per time and per energy. But it increases your cost in heat needed to level, and crowns needed to purchase -- so your rate of progress can be controlled, and low-star people are kept out of deep zones.
This huge imbalance dates to original Dungeons and Dragons. Where prices of stuff were seriously out-of-wack, justified by the game rules as "you are adventuring in a highly inflationary town; think California during the Gold Rush".
But that's not stable; that's not any sort of reasonableness. Not all GM's used this model, or this pricing structure.
Now, just looking at the announcement, the risk of adventuring at shallow depths has gone up. The combination of less defense, less offense, and less health bars, means that you're going to take more damage, you'll go slower, you'll spend more on revives. Your energy cost to play 1-7 has gone from 60 to 62 (one revive) or 66 (two revives). Your time has gone up. But your return has not gone up.
Some of us like the 4-7 zone; between lower response rate on our computers, and the ... challenge of depth 12 (or just most yellow floors), this is the best place for us to play without dying. Now we're being punished for that?
I have no problem with the idea of "Equipment is stronger near the core"
The problem is that ALL aspects of the game need to be re-evaluated.
Why do we have more crowns deeper down? Seriously.
Why do we have more heat deeper down? What does heat actually represent?
Why are boxes found with better equipment deeper down?
Why do nastier weapons take exponentially (or so it seems) more heat to improve?
And why is it that our technology, from our crashed ship that will never fly again, is so compatible with the core energy anyways? (I still think that "we're in a simulation, as entertainment for the strangers", is the best way to make sense of the whole setup.)
Nick:
> Shoebox: No, a 3 star item stops gaining power past tier 2. As for other things unlocking based on depth, yes, it's something we're always thinking about.
So that's ...
Your equipment will get stronger as you go down, until suddenly, it stops. But those monsters will keep getting stronger.
A pink jelly? Yes, at floor 7 it will be nastier than at floor 1. But at floor 20? The pink jelly you see at floor 20 will be much nastier than a pink jelly at floor 7.
That's imbalance.
Maybe there is a "knee-curve" response. (Don't know the proper name; think 1/x type of curves, or cost/power of computer equipment at any given time). Approximated by one slope of rapid growth in power until you reach the equipment's optimum response, followed by a second sloop of slow, minor growth as you go down. But suddenly stopping?
Now, one good thing to come out of this idea: A better ability to balance items with the expected monster. I can see the items becoming more powerful at their "knee" than they are now. For example, with 2 star gear, I'm supposed to be able to handle Moorcroft to Emberlight. In reality, I have trouble past depth 12 -- heck, depth 12 itself is a serious challenge. If monsters are getting harder all the way from 8 to 12, then I expect that two star equipment will get better at the same rate -- so that, in effect, floor 8 and 12 will be equal in difficulty for me with 2-star equipment.
Is that the case? Then why not have it just change monster strengths at the break floors anyways?
Going from 14 to 17, will my two star equipment increase in strength at the same rate as the three star equipment that my party members have? Slower? Not at all? Suddenly, different answers give very different behavior in observed monster difficulty as you go down.
===
What do I think would be a good thing to see?
Simple. If my weapon does 50 points of damage to a blue jelly in it's "good" zone, then from depth 1 to depth N, I should see 50 points of damage with each strike. When I go below my good zone, I start to see those numbers decline.
If it takes me three strikes to take out a blue jelly, then anywhere in that "good" zone, I should see three strikes to take out a blue jelly. As I go lower, and my numbers go down, then it takes me longer to kill the blue jelly.
In other words, in the "balanced" range, my weapon strength and the enemy defensive strength change in lock-step. It is only when my weapon is past it's linear response range that the enemies go up faster, and my apparent damage goes down.
Right now, at every intermission floor, my numbers go down.
Now, do the numbers that I see have to correspond exactly to monster hit points? Nope. As long as the scaling fits, and the numbers I see give me some indication of whose weapon is doing more damage, nothing else matters.
If I'm doing 50 to blue jellies in my good zone, what should I be doing to pink jellies and rock jellies in that same zone? The same 50? (indicating the relative strength of the weapons.) 25 or 75? (indicating that I'm hurting the pink jellies more than the rock jellies -- maybe the jellies have the same HP and I do more or less damage? Maybe the actual damage done is the same, but I'm doing 75% or 25% of their differing HP?)
The concept of "Make your weapons do less damage, AND make the monster take more HP"? Well, remember that the old D&D system was based on the abstracted concept of averaged effective hits over 60 seconds (or do you really think you took 60 seconds to attack once in battle?). Heck, originally combat was a modified variant of miniature combat, and the system we now take as "always been this way" was nothing more than a simplified variant for people who didn't have the miniatures rules.
I think that you are assuming that there will be a major nerf to those using high level equipment in Haven level Clockworks. I don't think the goal is to create a signifigant increase in risk so much as to allay player boredom when they end up in the surface levels without an elevator pass. I know that in the Haven floors I can run though spikes and hordes of enemies and take an inconsequential amount of damage, event gates just force me into tracking down and one hitting a few enemies. It also can result in making more of a hassle to run newbies down to deeper cores.
Your high powered weapon in the shallows will still be high powered relative to a weapon designed for the shallows, you just won't be a one-hitting-wonder anymore.
That's the idea of linking the star grade to the relative depths. Even before the Thanksgiving patch if you had too weak a weapon and dove right in life was going to be tough for you, it meant upgrade time. If you don't like low drop rates in the shallows you need to attempt survival deeper down to speed things up. Pretty standard risk/reward reasoning there.
Your Pink Jelly example doesn't apply. After Emberlight (floors 18+) you will not see such a (relatively) weak enemy. You face the most powerful variants almost without exception. The difficulty zoning is designed so that if you have an under-rated weapon you will likely die. It's a way to ensure a game takes a proper amount of time to play instead of having a gamer breeze through a title and shelve dues to a lack of chalange. I'm not sure why that is such an issue, it's a pretty common staple of gaming that if you don't obtain better weapons/armor/powerups the game will punish you for it (and it goes for platformers to racers).
Isn't that intentional? I mean we effectively have 6 tiers of weapons matched to 6 tiers of Clockworks. So the zone between Haven and the first Crossroads is the 0-star zone, then that Crossroads to Moorcroft is the 1-star zone and so on. Each of the 6 zones is ideally matched to its weapons, however this match zone is still undergoing rebalances. Usually you can take an item about one star rating beyond it's zone so long as you play strategically.
Sidenote: I don't think this is the ideal thread to talk about the backstory of SK. We're going for more of a gameplay discussion here. (I have a hunch some of your outstanding questions will be answered when the Core is complete)
Why do we have more crowns deeper down? Seriously.
Why do we have more heat deeper down? What does heat actually represent?
Why are boxes found with better equipment deeper down?
...Because deeper down is harder to complete than high up... so you get more rewards for doing so? It's a logical progression that is in practically every MMO/RPG out there - the bigger the monster, the more and better the loot.
And why is it that our technology, from our crashed ship that will never fly again, is so compatible with the core energy anyways? (I still think that "we're in a simulation, as entertainment for the strangers", is the best way to make sense of the whole setup.)
In my opinion, that would be a major letdown if that was how the story was. I think its perfectly reasonable that our technology would work with the Core's energy - a universal source of life energy, something that can bring an entire planet alive with varying environments, should just as well work with what we have.
Lore like, deeper levels are near to the gremlin cities, far away and better protected than the higher floors, so, lore like, less people passed through the floors, and thus, more items are awaitng there for various reasons (it could be a gremlin bank, a gremlin hideout, a lost person hideout, that turned a zombie while trying to escape, and many others, use your mind). Also, monsters near the core get stronger, maybe because the huge amount of energy there, thus, being able to kill more leveled knights, and these nnfortunate knights sure where carrying higher amount of gold and heat, thus, giving the monsters more rewards to carry. Also, heat could be something diferent, not a currency, but rather, it could be considered a kind of energy that is produced by everything, as a loss in a system, like heat in a lamp that was supposed to only light, or magnetic loss on every eletronic equipment, and many others. It could be considered that this heat is a condensed form of these losses in every kind of energy, that is condensed this way because of the powers of the core energy, thus, explaining why the nearest to the core, the more (also, the nearest to the core means the more battle you will need to do, thus, the more energy produced, used, and lost in form of heat). Boxex in the deeper levels could be deposits for lost knights, or for working gremlins, that contained some spare equipment of them, some accumulated heat (we don't know, but the gremlins could have a way to use heat in other ways), and many others.
For the crashed ship, it's easy: a lot of other knights and researchers came to this planet, and began researching energy. As we have crystal energy, thus, why our ship can't be powered by crystal energy too? And, that are nothing saying how much time passed since the first knight landed in this planet, so, it could be only weeks, but also decades or centuries, thus, making any kind of thought possible. As i side note, i would love to see the east part turning to be a spaceport where you can go and visit your home planet (where, maybe, your house would be), with the market too, and maybe access to other world there are colonized by other races, that uses the core energy in their way (nothing says that the core energy is exclusive to that planet, too). Also, the new planets would have higher tier dungeons, if they where less habitated, , and also some exclusive weapons, armor, and monsters (maybe an inteligent race that is as overpowered than goblins). And, to complete, you could be working in a colonizer company, or a bounty group, or select something to be your background, and these companies would only give you permission to go to the mother land, and to other worlds, if you complete specific jobs in certain worlds...Buuuuuuttttt, i only see this happening in, at least, one year and a half from now (having a mother planet and the first core planet, not adding any more planets for now).
I agree with Behindcurtai's point that the best way to implement this new feature would be to start every weapon off at a similar strength, and have the best weapons simply continue at that strength for the longest.
E.g. 1-star, 3-star and 5-star sword do 80, 90 and 100 damage at haven
they do 20, 90 and 100 around moorcroft
20, 22.5 and 100 around emberlight
This would make things very easy to explain in tutorials, and to compare weapons to each other.
(as for the rest of his points, my god man stop complaining about the very existence of progression in an RPG. You are the equivalent of someone posting "but why do we have to play puzzles" on the ypp forums.)
>stop complaining about the very existence of progression in an RPG.
To clarify: I'm not complaining about the existence of progression.
It's the extreme degree of progression.
It's the "Ohh, look, an area where fewer people get to, we'll put more stuff in there and not even bother to explain how it gets there".
Got a deep mineral mine that hasn't been heavily mined? Sure, it's got more stuff to dig out.
More coins lying on the ground? Doesn't make sense.
Closer to the strange source of energy emminating from the core? Fine, that might mean that your "heat" increase rate goes way up. It might mean that monsters are weirder, nastier, etc.
But the whole idea of "The progression has to look just like every other game before us, without any thought as to why": Justification?
Put simply: Is there a consistent, rational world behind the pixels on my screen?
Oh: I love puzzles. I wish I could play them without having the screen reset on me every time it gets interesting. (Star levels, porting, finding someplace that will pay for labor, foraging breaks, etc.)
===
Think of it this way: Remember back to your old D&D sessions? Remember going into those dungeons full of monsters? Did you ever see any sort of balanced eco-system -- any sign of monster poop? Any sign that the monsters lived when you were not there? Any sign that they ate?
Once our DM did a spoof on that, with rooms all containing a status field until we entered -- and we could see the flash as the field dropped. Except, of course, the one room where it didn't drop -- and that was the room where the head wizard was monitoring us from :-).
"Ohh, look, an area where fewer people get to, we'll put more stuff in there and not even bother to explain how it gets there".
Well if we're getting technical, why does a planet made up of other planets that constantly changes have a universal currency and persistent economy throughout when there is no government?
And if the core does emanate energy, why don't the knights just harness the plasma as it is instead of extracting what I can only assume is some kind of ionized particle to power themselves? It can apparently power their equipment so...
And if energy comes in a Crystal form, why can't we mine it as well? Since there seems to be an infinite source of it that the strangers can mine?
Why leave your treasure vaults unlocked? Or all your treasure chests laying around in a graveyard for people to smash up? That's not a sound investment strategy. Nor does it make any sense.
If energy is everywhere, why can't gates and turrets absorb it the same way the Knights do? Why do they manually have to go and put energy in when it's apparently everywhere?
The problem with your arguments is that you're USING LOGIC TO TRY AND MAKE SENSE OF A FANTASY VIDEO GAME.
There doesn't need to be continuity with rewards just because the top levels offer less rewards.
If the easy levels offered the same rewards as the lower depths, nobody would go deeper. Simple.
You are, in fact, arguing about the very existence of progression. You are arguing about basic gameplay elements on the grounds of real-life logic. That is pointless.
>It's the "Ohh, look, an area where fewer people get to, we'll put more stuff in there and not even bother to explain how it gets there".
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt
It's there because it needs to be there for the sake of gameplay.
>More coins lying on the ground? Doesn't make sense.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief
Actually i'm going to repeat this one a few times.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WillingSuspensionOfDisbelief
>But the whole idea of "The progression has to look just like every other game before us, without any thought as to why": Justification?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreNotbad
"It's not original" does not mean "it needs justification". Quite the opposite.
>Put simply: Is there a consistent, rational world behind the pixels on my screen?
A better question would be "Is there a beautiful, fun world behind the pixels on my screen?" Your choice of "consistent" and "rational" as the two most important words to describe a fantastical clockwork labyrinth adventure are odd, to say the least.
It's possible that they could build something that has a high level of internal consistency. But nothing that even approaches a stable realistic ecology simulator with food chains and growing plants and day/night cycles and realistic physics and weather and gravity and gremlins that are capable of diplomacy and mints and banks and a stock market and Real Karate-Chop Action. That is not the point of this game, or any game in this genre. That isn't the point of this thread. That isn't the point of any discussions about gameplay or the basic requirements of constructing a game of this genre.
A rich lore is indeed something everyone enjoys in a game. I see great potential in this game for a rich lore, and I hope to see it greatly expanded upon. The tone and wording of your posts suggests that you believe core gameplay elements should be thrown out to make more room for lore. That is incorrect.
but not without some random commments about the thing being discussed here:
-First off: curtain, not everyone here played D&D, nor ever played a table RPG in life, so, generalizing the way that you just did was something that you do quite often here. (i played, i already was both player and master of AD&D and D&D3.5, as with some other systems, so no need to explain now).
Now, to the comment that gave a higher punch in my virtual stomach: Shoebox, you are the culript, and the sentence is read this: (phoenix wright, DS. if you never heard of or played, i suggest to you to buy a ds, or download an emulator, and do so, it's really good).
-It's a fantasy game, i agree, but that's no reason to give random reasons to the things, to upgrade the lore of the ame. As i said: Some people could had forgotten it there, where it was lost, and this is totally acceptable. Now, why someone wouldd leave a box in a graveyard. Well, it don't necessarelly need to be a box. I like to imagine that, every time i open a box, is like if i found a coin bag at a corner of a room, and, next to it, a sheated sword hidden by te moss that covered it by ages (if i get coins and a sword from they), and not that i broke something up for it. Looking this way, it makes plausibel, use your imagination, it does good sometimes (or you can finish being an evil cientist that will destroy the world some day, but, not try, no results). Even if we don't see any apparent government, nothing is stopping us to think that it might have a universal monetary system, that was implemented at this specific planet with the time being (again, we don't know how much time this colonization is occuring, so, we can assume that it was enough time to introduce this currency to the gremlins), or it can be the currency of the gremlins, that are a civilizated race (that we know that they have a government), and, we don't know if the shopkeepers are from this planet, from your planet, or from a third planet, making so any of these 2 possibilities could be true. There are so many possibilities that i could see turning into quests in this game (I SEE IT, not you shoebox, or anyone here. Simply, if anyone comment, in this thread at least, about this onee statment, that only shows a deep onpinion of mine from something i like to do in other games, that not necessarelly want to do in this game, then, i will have to ignore the complete statment where you made this reference, unless it have sarcastic relevance about itself. Really, i will really be pittyfull with the people that answer, in this thread, specifically, with anything near an "i don't wanna that this game had quests").
Now, for you, kharnor:
-Yes, this game not necessarelly need to have a well worked lore, and could focus only in gameplay, as ypp, but, for me, i would love to see a kind of game that reminds me of zelda and so much other similar titles, with good historys, that had a well worked lore, at least after the main issue with most gameplay are worked out. Don't tremble in your feets, developers, because i know that are a lot of people here full of ideas for histories, and you won't need to melt your brains to much, at least for now (and, is there are not that many, i can compensate with the ones that don't want or can't help ^^). Gambateru!
Sooooooo... what does everyone think of these new updates, now that they actually exist?
Do the bars on Equipment reflect the depth-changes or no?
Can't say much atm..... but my khorovod no longer cancels ANY enemy attacks with a full combo/the second hit.
Also I see kamarin upgrades into it instead of troika now, yay for the russian trio :3
Has anyone noticed the reasonable balances to below Emberlight? It seems to me like I either do a lot more damage, or things have less than half the HP they used to. The latter would make sense, being as perhaps I am close enough to the Core where my Equips are actually stronger relative to before this release.
Somewhat off-topic, but I just got 4 Owlite feather from under 20 gray Kats. Lucky or were the drop rates boosted again? o_O
I've noticed that the Vile Striker is way more powerful. It's now dishing out over 100 damage a hit in the first segment after Emberlight. Also, Rock Jelly Helm/Mail got a huge boost, now giving a total 260 Normal and a whopping 320 Piercing defense.
However I don't feel overpowered, getting sloppy still will get me killed.
Khorovod no longer viable. Vile Striker now incredible. A question about this - Hunting Blade is nearly as good, but has no poison effect and does less damage. Why would anybody opt for the Hunting Blade? Needs some kind of exclusive perk. Extra damage versus beasts, perhaps?
Running from Haven to Emberlight is still effortless. Soloed a Battle Arena at Depth 15, no sweat. Armor doesn't appear to scale back like weapons, so you're still an unstoppable god when you adventure with next-tier equipment.
Avenger is still a joke. Does approximately 3.5 damage more per hit with its initial strike (as a two-strike weapon) than the Hunting Blade (a five-striker) does with its first swipe. This is versus standard monster defenses; undead, wolvers, gun puppies. Avenger now appears to do something like double damage versus devilites, which is good - but the Hunting Blade/Vile Striker still vastly outclasses it in terms of damage per second. After fighting some gremlins with it, I can only conclude that the Elemental damage intended to be produced by this weapon (in addition to its normal damage value) isn't manifesting at all. If it is, monster defense versus elemental must be astronomical.
Wooden golems resist the crap out of everything? Still not that tough, though.
Gremlin adjustments have made them much more combat-able. Can't tell if they're TOO easy, now. Probably not. Way, way more fun to fight them than before.
Fall asleep while holding object = object becomes lodged in your head, preventing any action beyond movement.
Overall? Needs more polish. Probably a step in the right direction. Kind of hard to make a concrete judgment.
I agree with Talbain. It's a step in the right direction, but still needs more work. I'm enjoying the higher damage though, everything seems much more reasonable (except the double Healers for soloing depth 20+).
Poor, poor Khoro...
Heavy melee got too much nerfs now..... at least it still does kb. I guess it's time to try out saber and spur with dem bombs.
The Hunting Blade deals much more damage against beasts. If it doesn't say this on the tooltip it's a bug.
I managed to solo a Depth 22 Arena the whole way with a competed Vile Striker and a level 3 Strike Needle (which tears up gremlins btw). Even double healers were not an issue.
@d0gr0ck
Does it still make you immobile when you shoot it?
I still think the game is getting worse and worse the more updates there are, and I can only assume my friends feel the same way as ever since the "rebalance" they have pretty much stopped playing.
Equipment should be like Pokemon. A Pikachu can still beat a Garados, even though it's evolved form Raichu is technically better (unless you evolve the pikachu before it learned quick attack). The older system was more in tune with this. Now Pikachu stands no chance and you MUST make it a Raichu.
Edit: And before anyone tells me to shut up because it's a beta, the whole purpose of a beta is to make the game better, not sit back and say nothing as you think the game is getting worse.
@magus1d14
Yes, and it has the occasional Stormtrooper effect going where the bullets seem to miss everything. A point blank charge attack will wipe out Ironwoods.
Beautiful, Koji. Absolutely beautiful. (Lol'd)
Ah, sweet nostalgia...
@Dogrock: I need to try that thing out sometime. I've had only bad experiences with double healers.
I agree with the changes, as a challenge is always fun, and will make it more friendly for higher level players to run lower equipped players through the starting gates (though it still won't be worth it in terms of crowns and heat). However, I am confused by the statement that says "What this means is that an item will increase in power the closer it gets to the core." Does this mean items will get stronger as well, the farther down you go?