"this sword does a moderate amount of damage" "this gun has fairly high dps" "this charge attack does a tremendous amount of damage!" ... What exactly is anyone getting from the sort of vague explanations of weapon damage we've been using in the wiki so far?
Personally, I think it would be appropriate to start constructing charts on each weapon's page showing some good hard statistics, and I have a format I'd like to propose that I think would handle the wide range of variability present.
First off, I think the best way to display the data would be spread-sheet style, with the columns dictated by which Stratum the weapon is being used in, and the rows sorting the type enemy it is used against based on their vulnerability to the damage type, if non-normal, and if the weapon has an inherent vs. enemy type damage bonus, then an additional row for that. Each section on the graph, then, would list the RANGE of damage the weapon has been seen to do (because different enemies have different amounts of resistance) against enemies of that family when in that Stratum.
Regarding Bosses, who may have far higher resistance than any other monsters or even different sets of resistances and vulnerabilities than normal, they will either NOT be counted OR each have their own row.
Example: a gun that deals elemental damage would have the columns for stratums 1-6, and rows consisting of "Vs. Constructs and Undead", "Vs. Gremlins and Beasts", "Vs. Slimes and Fiends", "Vs. Royal Jelly", and "Vs. Vanaduke" It's Damage Range in any given cross-section, let's say... Stratum 2 with Vs. Slimes and Fiends, might list something like "15 - 20 / 15 - 20" Indicating that it can make two shots that have each been shown to do damage (in that stratum, against those enemy types) ranging from 15 to twenty damage. Within that same square of the graph, UNDERNEATH "15-20 / 15-20" may be the damage range for the weapon's charge attack, possibly listed in a different color of text, which may read something like "24 - 35 50%[tiny flame icon]", where [flame icon] actually has a tiny image inserted representing a chance for minor fire status and the preceding 10% represents the estimated chance of causing it. There would, ideally, be separate easy-to-read icons made for various STRENGTHS of the status effect, so while there is a tiny flame icon for minor fire, there could be a larger flame icon for moderate fire.
2nd example: the Wrench Wand. It would have all of the same stratum based columns, but the rows would be different. It would have a row for "Base Damage" and a row for "vs. Constructs" because its damage bonus against them is inherent to all Wrench Wands. (It may also have rows for Vs. Bosses, but only if it is decided that the bosses have significant normal resistance compared to other monsters). Unfortunately this means that any given square on the chart of a normal weapon will tend to have a pretty wide range of damages shown, since normal resistance varies a lot from monster to monster... but that's of course the inherent, defining quality of Normal damage.
Of course, per-hit or even per-combo damage isn't everything; DPS important in some situations, so the chart will have to take that into account, too. I suggest that for each given weapon's basic attack combo, contributing knights measure the time (in seconds or decimals thereof) it takes for each part of the attack (because sometimes you won't have time or opportunity to do the FULL combo) to go completely through the animation sequence and be ready for either the next part of the combo or the chance to block. These times may be listed just once at the top or bottom of the chart and only the individual calculated AVERAGE DPS be put into each section of the graph in order to reduce clutter, OR these times may be included in each section for quick reference. I suggest we decide on one of the two options and make it the standard. Either way, I suggest that while we should show the full range of damage an individual attack can do, we need only calculate the DPS based on the average of that range divided by the amount of time the attack takes, for each section of the combo and then a total for the full combo. Naturally, there is absolutely no point in attempting to calculate DPS for charged attacks because one usually only does them once at a time and otherwise we would have to take into account charge reductions.
Some additional notes: All data gathered should be required to be taken with Completed, 10th-heat-level equipment, only against enemies that any applicable UV damage bonus (As in NOT inherent to that type of weapon, but just a random bonus on that specific one) OR armor damage bonuses do NOT apply to, and attack-times and resulting DPS should only be measured using weapons without attack speed modifications from other sources. When it comes to bombs, attack times can be listed but will refer only to the amount of time it takes for the bomb to detonate (and the duration of any after-initial-detonation effects, such as the status-afflicting clouds from the haze series or the vortex from gravitons) Calculating DPS for a bomb is out of the question. Obviously, nobody should ever include the amount of damage they do while poisoned in the lower damage range for anything.
Additional Additionally: Almost the exact same kind of chart can, and most certainly SHOULD be made for status effects that do damage, although the fact that such charts will have to be sorted by not just stratum and vs. enemy type, but also by the strength of the effect, is something to consider. Perhaps separate graphs for each strength level?
If necessary, I will attempt to throw together some mock-ups of what these charts would look like, if it was not clear enough from my description..
Latest Data I gather will be put on top:
Ascended Calibur - Tier 2 Damage
Ascended Calibur - Tier 2 (with Wolver Cap) Damage
Sealed Sword - Tier 2 Damage
Sealed Sword - Tier 2 (with Wolver Cap) Damage
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This is so exciting! Yes, we at Clockwork Armada was just talking about this earlier tonight over the guild chat, so I'm really surprised to see this. It would be great if we can work together and have as many data possible from as many weapons (swords, guns, bombs) on as many levels as possible. Overlapping data are okay too, since it will either corroborate or put into doubt existing data.
Here is something I wrote before I saw this post. Since it's quite cumbersome (read: I'm lazy =p) to edit it, I'll just post it as it is.
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Hi guys!
I'm thinking of gathering loads of data about the weapons available to us in Spiral Knights. As of now, I do not think the information we have about the potency of each weapon doesn't do much in helping players (especially new players) compare and pick their weapons.
What I'm looking for are actual hard numbers of [damages] done by each [weapon] on each [enemy] (perhaps enemy type, if the damages prove to be the same on the same level), on each [level]. I figure, if we have enough data, we could possibly make sense of those unfathomable Attack Power bars somehow (and if those bars simply do not correlate with the data at all, which is what many others and I have suspected, we can simply dismiss them triumphantly with absolute proof of their rubbish-ness).
[Damage]: This will come in range, as some weapons deal different damage on different swings (taking the Calibur line for instance, the third swing deals significantly more damage than the first two).
[Weapon]: To simplify the beginning of the process, only Heat Level 10 weapons will be used (testing other levels are only marginally useful since the weapons won't stay for long at those levels, and data gathering would also be more cumbersome, as the researcher must do all s/he can to avoid gaining heat.
[Level]: This will be useful in determining not only the depth, but also the type of monsters available there. Most likely this will be really crucial when elemental/piercing/shadow damage comes into play.
Here are some benefits (and potential benefits) from this undertaking that I can think of right now:
- Actual weapon damages are made available (especially useful for new players, and still useful for anyone's reference anyway)
- Comparison between weapons can be made more objectively (granted, we only have the damage per swing, not pure DPS)
- Chart the damage progression of each weapon tier.
- Get a ballpark of the enemy's health points (I know that enemies' health increases with party size. But if we can get the data for different party sizes as well, then it is possible to figure out the multiplier, and then we'll have access to possibly one of the most important data available in this game).
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I just did a run with Ascended Calibur (4*, normal damage) on T2. I've tried different rooms at the same level, and the damage seems to be the same, so it seems like room type doesn't matter much for the Calibur line (which makes sense given its role as an all-rounder sword).
[[Link Edited]]
[???: I simply don't have this number because either my 1) guildmates cleared the whole floor of that monster before I had the chance to test different attacks on them =p, or because at that moment I was too busy running for my life to test specific attacks!]
(Note: the first Damage number represents the first two hits of the Ascended Calibur, and the second number represents the final hit. Damage is the same on every single monster in the level, with the exception of the Gremlin Menders. They seem to have lower defense than other mobs. Another exception are the monsters inside the Danger Room. There are three separate Damage rate that I see from soloing three Danger Rooms (L9, 10, 17). It seems that Danger Room monsters are stronger not because they get DEF and ATK stat boost. They are simply monsters imported from the deeper levels!)
We found out several interesting facts:
- The number of members in the party does not affect damage output (in other words, while the mobs' HP gets boosted, their DEF does not).
- Arena monsters have the same DEF as other monsters in different rooms at the same level.
- Weapon Damage is dictated by depth level, not the monster the weapon is used on (found this out from the Danger Room tests).
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This is by no means conclusive and fool-proof. I might have noted down the wrong number while I was too busy not getting lazored to death by the Retrodes. As more people join in the data gathering process and our data pool grows bigger, more accurate and definitive conclusion will be able to be drawn.
[[Important]] We are looking for someone who's proficient with the Wiki to whom we can pool all our data in Excel sheet, so everything can be made pretty and put on the Wiki for everybody's reference.