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For people who complain when they lose to hammers

22 replies [Last post]
Mon, 10/08/2012 - 13:13
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl

First thing first. Not everyone who owns one of the hammers from the DLC is a "noob spammer". Using a hammer emphasizes strategy over mechanics, which is more or less the opposite of how toothpicks work.

For example, if you join a game of LD planning to use a weapon of the flourish line what is the best technique? Rapid shield-cancelling of the first swing. A good player will almost never use the full combo because the risks outweigh the benefits. Once you practice enough to get the timing down all that is left is dodging enemy attacks. Now I'm not trashing shield-cancelling or toothpicks: both are viable methods and effective ones. All I'm trying to say is understand the difference.

For the hammer there are more options than just the first swing. Of course you can do one swing and shield cancel. That is a viable option but because the mechanics of the hammer are different it is not usually the best method. The first swing and dash followed by a shield-cancel are much more effective because of the movement added and the extra hits. Leading people on or lining up more than one knight for multiple hits is where the hammer really shines. Because of the effectiveness of the two part dash occasionally the final swing lines up. With a toothpick one is almost always just doing one swing so the final hit isn't even an option because the second swing isn't used. Because the second swing is utilized by the hammer the final swing can be used for either the massive knockback or a finishing blow.

All in all if you see someone and they use a full hammer combo don't be so quick to shove it as spam. First see: did they only get one hit in? Or did they get 4-6 hits on multiple knights with that single combo. Having options is what makes the hammer so much fun to play with.

Although it does suck when a toothpick interrupts you into immobility every now and then.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 13:28
#1
Lskyx's picture
Lskyx
:U

Hammer is both fast and (super) powerful. Toothpick is just fast.
Only a certain amount of players can get the Hammer. Toothpick is earned.

Having played with both weps before id say that hammer is defiantly easier to use. (just dont be stupid with it)

BUT you shouldnt complain about getting beat by any wep in the game. If ya got beat, ya got beat. :)

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 13:27
#2
Lskyx's picture
Lskyx
Double post

:T

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 15:29
#3
Goofio's picture
Goofio
The Faust and Avenger lines

The Faust and Avenger lines also swing faster than the Rocket Hammers. You can often use your GF or DA to "beat your opponent to the punch." Of course, some players will still defeat you, even when you manage this.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:15
#4
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
Did you really have to?

Im not getting tis./
You made one big angry wall of text to explain why you dont spam the Warmaster Rocket Spammer? (<--trying to make "spammer" catch)
i mean, really, ppl who complain getting spammed are usually not that good or are trying to tell you something.
you can literally intentionally spam with any other weapon. the Leviatian Spam, Spamtech Alchemer MkII, Trollaris, Spamasuar, etc.
the thing is, the WRH's action makes it an unintentional spam. or intentional spam.
It has speed, reach, and its powerful.
I mean, I should make my own thread why my FoV is not spamming in LD. Weapons are weapons. a battlefield is never fair. some ppl use this to thier advantage. get over it. i dont care if you use OP, spammable weapons against me, it just tells me what type of player you are.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:25
#5
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart
-

I see more spamming of them in T1/T2, but on the forums T3 is the only LD so don't worry about that.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:25
#6
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
i dont care if you use OP,

i dont care if you use OP, spammable weapons against me, it just tells me what type of player you are.

That's a bit unfair. Teethpicks are arguably OP in LD, yet 60% of players use skolver/teethpicks. Does that mean that all of them are just half-assed cheats who just want an easy win? No, there are many excellent players who use that setup, and many who suck, and many who're still learning. Fact is, not many people will go into T3 LD with winmillion, because it'd be a waste of time. People use what works, not what's "fair for the enemy". If that was our attitude, then no one should use UVs, because they're invariably "unfair to all enemies".

Personally, I see it as a comment on the player if they decide to whine about spammers. The best players can kill someone even if they are spamming, so shouldn't need to complain. The worst players won't be able to beat a spammer whether they're spamming or not. The only people who complain are the ones who're just looking for an excuse or something to rationalise why they die. And they'll use anything. I'm a pure support bomber, and I've been called a spammer for using bombs. Bombs.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 16:36
#7
Mk-Vl's picture
Mk-Vl
The thing is

I don't spam. I play T2 and use the hammer, 3* blaster, 3* haze (when i have the ce to get a third wep slot), and guardian. That's all I ever use and I use all my weapons pretty evenly. It's just frustrating when the instant people see that I have a hammer all the comments come out and people even leave games. I don't judge anyone else on their weapon choice, although I do enjoy seeing different things. Someone came into a match with a 3* cutter and the 3* hood line and made it interesting because I had to figure out a way to actually get an attack in to kill them. All I want is the hate to stop.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 17:59
#8
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Food for thought:

Two things I noticed in Lockdown:
- People don't understand latency - They shoot/attack where they see people and are surprised when their hits don't register. I remember people trying to test damage with hammer and coming to the conclusion that hammer can't be hit during second slash. This is absolutely false, and in reality, they probably missed because they didn't know how to aim ahead of movement to hit through lag.

- Hammer has no invincibility frames during the second slash. This is a sort of niche thing that I realized but think it's absolutely hilarious when a "hammer spammer" (the terrible ones that keep doing full combos to move when enemies are on screen) gets mowed down by Blitz Needle, of all things.
-----------------

Anyway, that said, people whine about what they don't understand. It's bound to happen ¦3

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 18:15
#9
Skold-The-Drac's picture
Skold-The-Drac
More food for thought

For those of you who actually charge anything, do know your invinciframes are taken down completely... I've killed many a charging bomber with the 3 blasts from the dash of the hammer....

(More proof that bombers aren't much liked... but w/e.)

At least that's what I've seen in t2.

Also, all the hammer hate... is not worth it. I hate pulsars, while I do complain, I choose to take 'em down anyway. People think I rely on my hammer to be awesome... it's not that, it's that my hammer makes things fun for me, same as toothpick makes things fun for you fluffehs. I would go to a pure gunning/bombing layout if I could enjoy them... but all them sticks and pulsar's make that too difficult to be enjoyable.

I loathe pulsar's, i'm doing what I can to be less verbose about it... Area denial is strong when you don't have to charge for it. But honestly if you're gonna hate the hammer, then we may as well just be using the vanilla lines to make things fair :P

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 18:44
#10
Canozo's picture
Canozo
Supporting hammer users.

Rocket hammer is in my opinion the most fun weapon in this game.
It can be used in so many different ways, and you actually need more experience to use a hammer correctly, other than using a toothpick wich is hit and dodge.

If its used by the right swordsman, this will be most deadly weapon in PvP for him, and you wont be able to fight against it.

People who complain about people using rocket hammers are either trolls or jealous in my opinion.
Someone that has nailed the ussage of the hammer shouldnt be called "noob hammer spammer", it should be called a true PvP veteran, and he should take as prize the victory of his team and the soul of the enemy knights (or at least their hearts :o)

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 18:55
#11
Etendue's picture
Etendue
Rocket hammer is actually

Rocket hammer is actually considerably faster than the Sealed Sword line. Without any UVs, you can expect to completely outspeed an enemy sealed sword. It actually leaves you a lot of breathing space.

I have one higher level of ASI on my Gran Faust than on my hammer, and my hammer is still noticeably faster.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 19:04
#12
Goofio's picture
Goofio
@Etendue

That's the opposite of what I've found. I find that I can hit players with the first swing of my Gran Faust before they can hit me with the Rocket Hammer.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 19:09
#13
Miat's picture
Miat
@Darkbrady: Try being called

@Darkbrady: Try being called a bomb spammer when you're a striker. >< Yes, this has happened to me. And yes, as a striker, I do use a bomb as my second/third weapon of choice. (After doing this for some time, I seem to be seeing more people doing the same, so something must be working. ^^)

Overall, I agree. Whining about anything is just ridiculous. Rage rants born out of the natural frustration of games like these (eg. repeated deaths due to lag, shock, freeze etc before you can even do anything) is more understandable but don't, imho, have a place in the public channels.

My opinion is this: whatever causes a person to whine/rage is an indicator of where their weakness is. (Yes, even lag is a weakness that, while harder to overcome, can be worked with to an extent.) The fail thing is, majority of whiners just whine. They don't try to overcome their failings. They don't try to improve their skills. It really is just a reflection on themselves.

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 20:07
#14
Etendue's picture
Etendue
Goofio: Yes, me too. But

Goofio: Yes, me too. But that's because most people don't have ASI on their hammers, and I have ASI on my Gran Faust. Do you have ASI? Also, the attack speeds are recorded in their respective weapons pages on the wiki, aren't they?

Mon, 10/08/2012 - 21:52
#15
Goofio's picture
Goofio
Yeah, I have ASI medium on my

Yeah, I have ASI medium on my Gran Faust, so that could be the reason. It would be interesting to set up an experiment, although it would be difficult to have both players attack at exactly the same time.

Edit: Found the sword data here. The data doesn't really prove which sword would make contact first in a duel, though.

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 10:19
#16
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
I have seen people called

I have seen people called "(weapon) spammer" for every popular weapon you can name in LD. Hammer, GF, guns (especially Polaris), bombs, you name it. What I have found is that the ones complaining don't know how to combat whatever it is they're complaining about, almost always. It CAN'T POSSIBLY be their fault, their skills are flawless, you must be a noob spammer.

I have been called a hammer spammer before, as it is one of my favorite weapons, in both PvE and PvP. My normal response is "yes yes, i'm spamming my hammer. nothing at ALL like you're doing with your FF right?" And then they normally shut up, because they can't argue their point without calling themself one.

In the end everybody spams their weapon of choice. It is the nature of LD.

~Gwen

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 10:22
#17
Thunderbog's picture
Thunderbog

"yes yes, i'm spamming my hammer. nothing at ALL like you're doing with your FF right?"

I WILL REMEMBER WHAT TO DO WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN TROUBLE

THANKS

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 13:17
#18
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
The main reason why people

The main reason why people complain about the hammer is because it offers a superior strategy only to paying players. Noone would complain if the roar twins dropped, say, a brandish that deals peircing instead of elemental. You might not be able to get that exact sword for free, but you can at least get one with the same moveset and damage-weighting. Not that its a big deal to me either way, I play T2 with a flamberge and nightblade. Dat hammer kills me in exactaly two hits though, I would really appreciate them lowering the damage by a half a health plip.

I just don't like it when people get defensive if someone says they spam. When I tell the other team that they're all polaris spamming, its half-congratulatory. I mean, getting your whole team on one base all using polaris is actualy kinda impressive. Even if I was talking trash, it's PVP. Of course I'm gonna talk trash, haven't you people played quake?

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 13:34
#19
Weegeeftws's picture
Weegeeftws
........

If you hit a Bomber with a Hammer while he's charging he's evidently doing it wrong.
One of the only ways to effectively use bombs is to spam them. BUT if you actually LOOK you can get around bombs easily. Haze bombs are a bit trickier yes. But if there's a will there's a way, and trust me when I say this, there's a way. (Guns).

Some people spam, some people don't. Some weapons are better than others. I think it's about time these conversations come to an end in my opinion. If you can't take that someone killed you, spam or no spam, don't play Lockdown. I use my hammer in T2 (I either gun or bomb in T1. T3 can kiss my [rear]) for mobility, without auto target, for those who care. (I'm a guardian, it helps a lot)

And if you talk trash, people will get defensive. It's a way of life, why the hell should I accept being called a spammer?

The hammer does a lot of damage because people had to pay for it. If they lower the damage you'll just cause more people to quit. And thinking otherwise... Well, you shouldn't be.

~The Mighty Cheese Knight; WeeGee

Tue, 10/09/2012 - 19:12
#20
Lightyourfire's picture
Lightyourfire
Thu, 10/11/2012 - 13:46
#21
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
"And if you talk trash,

"And if you talk trash, people will get defensive. It's a way of life, why the hell should I accept being called a spammer?"
Aww come on weegers. There's nothing wrong with spamming, I do it all the time.

Though I still think the rocket hammers gameplay style being for paying players only is kinda lame.

Thu, 10/11/2012 - 16:21
#22
Motorcat's picture
Motorcat
Whoever cries continually to

Whoever cries continually to hammer death is a scrub.

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