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Antigua, Silversix, Blackhawk: Real-time Reload

19 replies [Last post]
Wed, 05/04/2011 - 04:10
meowreka
Legacy Username

First off, let's address the WHY before the HOW.

WHY:
To add to the uniqueness of the gun. A bullet-by-bullet, revolver-esque reload would add a lot to the Antigua line guns in the way of uniqueness. It would also add to the antiquated feel of the guns.

HOW:
After the firing animation is fully over, if there are less than 6 bullets in the gun, then the player will automatically start to reload the gun one bullet at a time. The player could choose to fire the weapon or switch the weapon at any time in order to cancel the reload animation. When the gun has 0 bullets in it, the player will be forced to reload at least one bullet before they're allowed to fire again.

To balance out the longer reload speed, the per-bullet damage could be increased.

BUT:
Of course, part of the reason everyone likes the Antigua line is because of how fast it is compared to other weapons. I understand that. There's a couple ways to solve this.
1. Make another, non-revolver weapon to be the "fast firing" weapon of the game.
2. Make one of the variants (Blackhawk, Silversix) in a magnum-type handgun style instead of a revolver, and make it the fast-firing weapon.
OR, if none of this appeals to you:
3. Completely ignore this entire thread and move along, you are clearly not interested.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 04:20
#1
Fenix-Stryk's picture
Fenix-Stryk
I'm not interested in having

I'm not interested in having the Antigua be downgraded. It's already struggling outside of one very specific scenario.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 04:28
#2
meowreka
Legacy Username
It's not a downgrade, it's a

It's not a downgrade, it's a sidegrade. The damage would be balanced to compliment the new reload style and consequent attack speed.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 04:55
#3
Fenix-Stryk's picture
Fenix-Stryk
What you're proposing is a

What you're proposing is a lengthened reload time and a static, tracked clip size. In other words, more reloading. Unless the damage is buffed considerably higher than the Blaster line, it is a direct downgrade.

Why is it that Blaster-line users always skip their reload animation? I'll tell you:
1) It increases your mobility.
2) It increases your overall damage per second.
3) It allows you to block at all times. This is the big one.

For Antigua users, shooting the last shot vs. skipping the reload animation is a little more arguable because the reload time is shorter and the damage doesn't vary as much between the styles, but skipping still means you can block at all times (3). What you are suggesting means we have to reload, every time. That's poppycock! Having to move slowly or stop entirely to reload, when you can't block during the animation? No one would want that. It's not fun or interesting, least not in Spiral Knights.

If you want a new line, then fine, suggest that. But to come here suggesting radical changes to a popular line that shines during Vanaduke because it shoots quickly, doesn't reload often and doesn't constantly stop you from blocking? Madness.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 05:31
#4
meowreka
Legacy Username
Just because it's a

Just because it's a bullet-by-bullet reload doesn't mean it has to be a slow reload. It could take roughly three times the time it takes now to reload it fully after the sidegrade, and because of the nature of the last bullet reload, a player could effectively shoot one bullet, reload it, and shoot again faster than someone would be able to shoot an alchemer using the reload-skip method.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 06:17
#5
Techhead
Legacy Username
Speedloaders

Did we forget about speedloaders?
Why not just have the animation open the breach and cram in a speedloader?
We have energy weapons but not little bits of metal that hold bullets?

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 06:19
#6
meowreka
Legacy Username
Most of the reason I want a

Most of the reason I want a real-time, bullet-by-bullet reload for the Antigua line is because, as the name implies, it's an Antique weapon. It's an old-fashioned revolver.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 06:41
#7
Evning's picture
Evning
I do not agree with your idea but

I think you need to add that the new fast firing weapon, needs to allow players to walk while shooting.
Autogun is fast, but its not accurate(spread shot) nor does it allow players to walk.

So i Think suggestion 1 should be more specific in the way i mentioned.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 07:23
#8
jooozek
Legacy Username
OP, how can you tell someone

OP, how can you tell someone to get lost when you want to cripple their favorite utility? I got this guns line exactly because of the ability to clean out blocks/chests/crystals really fast.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 08:55
#9
meowreka
Legacy Username
It's not like you can't still

It's not like you can't still clean out blocks with it if it gets these changes. The first six shots on a full clip will be just as fast as it fires now, if not faster.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 12:45
#10
Jalok's picture
Jalok
Darn it! I don't want it to

Darn it! I don't want it to be nerfed!

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 15:12
#11
Vlad's picture
Vlad
Tell that to the Autogun.

Tell that to the Autogun.

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 15:38
#12
Gwenyvier's picture
Gwenyvier
Call it what you want, its a

Call it what you want, its a definite downgrade. It would require programming to keep track of how many bullets are in your gun, more programming to create a manual reload (partial and full), would require a key to be triggered to the reload(actually 2, 1 for a single shot reload, a 2nd for a full reload), and most importantly... WOULD MAKE THE LINE USELESS.

Nobody would use it if they have to keep track of their shots all the time and manually reload it. And overall it would be an incredibly large amount of effort to be put into it to then just watch a good 90% of the users promptly drop the line due to not being worth the hassle.

It could take roughly three times the time it takes now to reload it fully after the sidegrade 3x meaning you're standing still for almost 2 seconds, can't attack, can't block, can't move, that's asking to get smacked by Mr. Gremlin.

The first six shots on a full clip will be just as fast as it fires now, if not faster. Yes, they'd fire at the same speed, and after the first 6 your firing speed gets cut in half due to having to reload a shot after every shot.

~Gwen

Wed, 05/04/2011 - 19:47
#13
Awesomest
Legacy Username
No.

All handgun bullets are made out of Mist Energy.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 00:14
#14
meowreka
Legacy Username
No, handgun bullets are made

No, handgun bullets are made out of heat.

Well it's obvious that you guys don't share the same view I do about this, so I'll drop it. I'm a bit saddened that the idea got so ruthlessly shot down without even so much as someone trying to build on it or give an alternate suggestion, just people saying "no, your idea is stupid and you should feel bad for posting this"

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 06:53
#15
Senshi
Legacy Username
Not -stupid- exactly...

It would have been neat if the gun had been designed that way from the beginning, but it wasn't. The damage would have to be vastly increased (at least doubled, maybe tripled) to balance out the forced period of vulnerability. In short, it would be a totally different weapon with a totally different feel, not used in the same situations it's used in now, and so nobody who owns one is going to want their weapon to be radically redesigned now that they have it.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 15:40
#16
meowreka
Legacy Username
New idea: New Antigua variant

New idea:
New Antigua variant that does Piercing/Normal or just Piercing damage, and operates the way that I suggested in the first post. This variant will not affect any current Antiguas, Blackhawks, Silversixes, or so on.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 17:22
#17
Hazel's picture
Hazel
New Antigua variant that does


New Antigua variant that does Piercing/Normal or just Piercing damage, and operates the way that I suggested in the first post. This variant will not affect any current Antiguas, Blackhawks, Silversixes, or so on.

So you're suggesting a worthless gun instead of making an already limited gun series worthless.

Your idea is bad. It's fueled by a desire to make flavor text on an item dictate its functionality, which is just plum stupid to begin with. Reload times are already the greatest crux of guns next to their poor per-shot damage, and you're proposing that the worst aspect of being a gunner be made a prominent horrible feature on a weapon. I don't see how you DON'T see this as an incredibly bad idea, but I'm fairly certain everyone else has summed it up pretty well.

Nothing involving or related to your suggestion should ever be put in this game as anything but a deliberate joke weapon.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:13
#18
meowreka
Legacy Username
Hazel, you are an angry and

Hazel, you are an angry and spiteful little man and/or woman and I stopped taking what you say with any amount of seriousness long ago.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 21:49
#19
Hazel's picture
Hazel
Hazel, you are an angry and

Hazel, you are an angry and spiteful little man and/or woman and I stopped taking what you say with any amount of seriousness long ago.

Your suggestion is bad and you should feel bad.

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