Spiral Knights - The Advanced Training Hall: Obsolete to the Guild Version

The Advanced Training Hall: Obsolete to the Guild Version

16 replies [Last post]

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:10

Zopyros-Il

The Advanced Training Hall was supposed to be a place for newbies to get an idea of what they were going to run into in the Clockworks. It was also a place to test out your various weapons and armors, though not reliably since the values couldn't be changed to reflect the damage from higher Tiers. However, the new guild version of the Training Halls lets you do just that, plus against all enemy types.
So can we upgrade the Advanced Training Hall to include the same features?
And maybe even make it more in depth as in in changes Stratum by Stratum, instead of Tier by Tier? Damage dealt on a lower Stratum of a Tier isn't the same as a damage dealt on a higher one. Would make it easier to see just how much damage you're going to be dishing out on which floors.

While I think OOO has done a fairly decent job on this update, I don't approve of their making a lot of Haven utilities redundant and even obsolete.

P.S. Can someone who works on the wiki start updating the numbers on damage for all weapons? Would be really helpful to new players that the update brought in and should be a lot easier to do now. I'd do it myself, but I don't have access to all the weapons. ):

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:14

Schattentag

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/forum/7/

It's important to note that damage values vary as one travels further into any given Tier. Additional testing needs to be done to determine "where" the Guild Training Hall lies in a Tier.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:48

Yanos-Aldrin

Yet another voice in the crowd....

While I certainly sympathize & understand how you feel about the Advanced Training Hall vs. the Guild Training Hall, updating the ATH would not be in OOO's best interest... as that Guild Training Hall comes at quite the premium, and to render a big ticket item like that obsolete by giving the ATH with the same features may seem counter intuitive.

Just my thoughts there. :)

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:52

Severage

...

You may think the GH Training area renders the ATH useless, but really, if you upgraded the ATH, you'd render the GH Training area useless.

The GH Training area isn't free, the ATH is.

~Sev

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 13:53

Psychodestroyer

Well, the Advanced Training Hall is more of a Tutorial room, whereas the Guild Training hall is more professional, in the sense that you can test your gear, and there's a firing range.

The ATH is mostly just for newbs to get used to the game, methinks.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 14:04

Autofire

True true true...

but what is sorta dumb is getting an AH as well as certain other vendors. They don't even give you anything new!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 14:19

Zopyros-Il

I understand to some extent,

I understand to some extent, but at the same time it seems kind of unfair to introduce something as unique and helpful as the guild training hall only to the guilds.
And the ATH actually kind of lost it's "newbie helper" status with the introduction of the Mission system. By the time most Knights reach Haven and the ATH, they'd already know about the dangers of the Clockworks and the functions of all the blocks/vials/switches/etc. in there.
So, why not make it an area for reliable equipment tests on all Tiers/Stratum, since (like everything else in Haven right now) it's kind of useless?
It could even free up the current Guild Training Hall for mini-games. It could be similar to the target shooting it already has, just add in a score system and a guild leaderboard. Maybe even boss rooms that guildies could take on for time-attack (no crowns, heat, or tokens given obviously). Just a thought.

But then again, Spiral Knights does need a Crown sink and maybe this is the best solution right now, especially considering that most guilds with the training halls are open to the public. Still doesn't feel quite right to me though......

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 16:17

Flowchart

you can see the depths on the loading screen when you enter the various tiers of the GTH.

Tier 1 is depth 1, tier 2 is 13, tier 3 is 23.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 18:53

Zeddy

Just visit a guild that has the hall (such as EoS) and use it there. It's open for everyone.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 19:15

Psychodestroyer

"Just visit a guild that has the hall (such as EoS) and use it there. It's open for everyone."

Vogdammit, now my little happy place is ruined.

RUINED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:10

#10

Darkbrady

The ATH has more stuff and a

The ATH has more stuff and a larger area to run around in and actually learn the mechanics. The guild Hall is really just for checking your damage values and T3 shuffles. Honestly, the ATH has more in it; the only special thing about the Guild Hall is the damage bags and the fact that you can check the values across three tiers. It in no way makes the ATH obsolete for a player who is actually learning the game. For players who already know the game, ATH is useless anyways, so the damage bags matter.

For someone who's new to the game, the gulid training hall won't do much for them, not nearly as much as the ATH.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:27

#11

Leafblader

moo

You guys are forgetting that the guild training hall does not have fire and oil pots.

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 20:46

#12

Zopyros-Il

@Flowchart
That's helpful info. Didn't notice that yesterday while going through the guilds.
It would be more helpful though if you could choose the Stratum you go to. According to the wiki, the Stratum depth is what determines the damage scaling, not the Tier or individual floor depth.

@Zeddy
I mentioned that most guild halls that have one are made public and that's wonderful. I am thankful that so many guilds are so kind as to let everyone use them, don't get me wrong. What I don't like is Haven's further downward spiral into uselessness with the now (even more) useless ATH.

@Darkbrady
Even though the only thing the guild training hall has are those punching bags and tier adjustment, that alone makes it far more invaluable than what the ATH has right now. As much as the ATH is meant to nudge new players into the into the game, it doesn't fulfill that purpose, the Missions do. As I said before, by the time a newbie even has access to Haven and the ATH, they'll know most of this stuff already via the required Missions to get there.
So what purpose is the ATH supposed to serve at this point? And what harm is there in adding a few new features to the ATH?

@Leafblader
Fun times with those pots... fun times...

Thu, 11/15/2012 - 21:28

#13

Darkbrady

Then the missions make the

Then the missions make the ATH obsolete, not the GTH. Fact is that checking your damage values is useless for new players. ATH is just there to run around, check out what vials are and do, learn about switches, try swinging your sword at things or shooting pots etc, not for seeing how badass your new 5* teethpick is againt T1 fiends.

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 06:30

#14

Tiroth

...

@Zopyros-II - Damage scales by what depth you're on. Or haven't you noticed doing more damage on the last floor of FSC than the first?

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 07:46

#15

Gwenyvier

For those interested, the

For those interested, the guild training hall "floors" are as follows:

Tier 1: Depth 1
Tier 2: Depth 13
Tier 3: Depth 23

The numbers seem a bit interesting for Tier 2 and 3. For example a Gran Faust does 304/393 to the Slime punching bag in Tier 3, but at D22 a GF does 288/368 and at D24 311/404. So we're effectively getting numbers for a floor we have never seen damage numbers for before.

~Gwen

Fri, 11/16/2012 - 17:51

#16

Dukeplatypus

Not necessarily, a few missions have combat levels on D13 and D23, but this is much more complete.

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The Advanced Training Hall: Obsolete to the Guild Version