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Hail vs storm for fsc

16 replies [Last post]
Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:18
Flamearc's picture
Flamearc

just asking

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:37
#1
Fradow's picture
Fradow
No question

There is no question, so no answer.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:41
#2
Wolfe-Knight's picture
Wolfe-Knight
Could you please list your

Could you please list your current equipment and play style, it is normally a lot easier to help people with a little bit more information about yourself. I normally would go Hail as freeze is quite a nice status if you use it properly. Really the choice between hail and storm is more based on play style then anything else, if you want to immobilize mobs then go Hail, if you want them to stutter sometime and not be able to attack then go Storm. The choice is up to you.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 11:43
#3
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
depends?

Damage: Storm
Emergency status : Hail

Storm driver's shock is good for crowded groups of monsters and with groups of friends.
- Works great with vortex, since it pulls everything together
- For Vanaduke, it may stop him from moving mid-tackle. This is often unpredictable though.

Hail driver's freeze status is great if you're a swordsman. I've been doing Troika runs recently (Sudaruska, Triglav, Hail Driver, and Electron Vortex) and it's nice for these situations:
- I don't have VH gun damage using that loadout, so freezing turrets gets me a second, free charge attack.
- If I need a free set of hits on a trojan or slag guard, I can freeze them and either: gamble for a re-freeze with another charge or use another charge attack.
- Doing a no-shiver run, if everyone else is dead, I can freeze Vanaduke while I run to revive a teammate.
- In the mask phase, if you freeze the mask before the timer runs out, it will stay in place until the freeze status naturally breaks off.

Of course, keep in mind that it's no replacement for shivermist, in terms of freezing ability. Freeze is a very 'solo' kind of status outside of shivermist: it buys you time to do other things and deal with other monsters, but as soon as teammates come into play (ex: hordes of poorly-timed blitz bullets), you can't count on it.

I love storm driver and all, but Hail has far more utility :v

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 12:37
#4
Flamearc's picture
Flamearc
URRG

@Fradow the question is which gun is better storm driver or hail driver for Fire Storm Cathedral.
@Wolfe-Knight I am a pure gunslinger that usually travel in a party of 3 or 4 of other gunslingers...
Need it for Slags jellies and flamethrower puppies

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 13:10
#5
Bopp's picture
Bopp
I prefer Storm Driver over Hail Driver

Hail Driver is not spammable. If you fire regular shots everywhere, then even on those rare occasions when a freeze happens, your next shot or ricochet will just break the freeze. So, in order to get any advantage out of Hail Driver, you have to play with discipline (really just charging).

In contrast, Storm Driver has nice regular attacks that sometimes shock, disrupting the monsters and doing some extra damage. I greatly prefer Storm Driver. I also like Nova Driver a lot.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 13:13
#6
Fradow's picture
Fradow
"I am a pure gunslinger that

"I am a pure gunslinger that usually travel in a party of 3 or 4 of other gunslingers" You should have said that from the beginning, that's really the main thing which is going to influence your choice.

Anyway : since you are all going to shoot all the time, more or less, Freeze is probably not going to last long, so not be useful at all. You might as well goes with Storm Driver, which have some non-negligible additional damage.

Other posters already detailed the cons and pros of each one.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 17:25
#7
Flowchart's picture
Flowchart
-

hail if solo, storm if not

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:34
#8
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
PS

Forgot to mention, if I'm going as gunslinger (aka any set with VH-max gun damage bonus) and going for efficiency, I'd use neither:
Nova Driver is the most efficient gun for FSC (why gamble for status when they die before the statuses do more than like 50 damage?).
Blitz Needle takes out trojans/slags/vanaduke quicker.

Rain of damage is just soooo much better than status effects vs monsters.

Freeze is nice if you're soloing, shock is nice as a support status, and fire is nice if you're running around (and not in FSC), but it's absolutely not comparable to the DPS you'd get from the raw damage you'd get from Nova driver - basically every Nova driver shot does more than the combined damage from a status alchemer's status bite + original shot damage.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:53
#9
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
DPS you'd get from the raw

DPS you'd get from the raw damage you'd get from Nova driver - basically every Nova driver shot does more than the combined damage from a status alchemer's status bite + original shot damage.

Wanna put some numbers to that claim? From every test I've done I find the exact opposite. The 15~20% damage bonus is gets only counts for about 20~40 damage, which can often be outdone by shock alone (esp if clustered) and fire certainly. I've not found any situation where I'd rather lose statuses that help interrupt, group afflict and otherwise make my life easier for some extra raw damage; damage which can often be outdone by said statuses.

Not to mention that due to a hits/kill counter due to enemies hp, most enemies can be killed in nearly, if not the same number of shots of Nova/Storm even if no statuses are inflicted at all.

I can understand the decision for things like Blitz vs Plague where the difference is some 100% higher for the sake of a status that deals no direct damage, and when the base damage is so high to begin with (potential 4k damage) but when shots are only hitting 200 damage and the percentage increase is so low, it counts for very little.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 21:52
#10
Atacii
...

I prefer Hail for FSC. Although I mainly use Blitz.

My FSC Gunner loadout: Mask/Shadowsun/Swiftstrike + Hail/Sentenza/Blitz + Trueshot/Focus.

I've tried using Storm at FSC, just didn't like it. Although, if I swap shot instead of charge spammed, I would probably go Nova/Storm.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:07
#11
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Numbers!

Max damage gunner at D26 vs undead:
Storm: 212 + 29 (241) if shocked
Nova: 253, no status

I'm not much of a charge user, but if I remember d25 correctly, I might have done about 50-60 more damage with charge on the main hit.
In total, that's overall potential gain of over 500 raw damage (charge is worth 13 potential hits) or much less, if you factor in shock.

In a 2 person party, there was no difference in # of regular shots to kill zombies (7 shots?).

So...
- My original claim of the Nova shot doing more damage than a bite+raw damage is true, but I overestimated the difference. They are actually kinda comparable (10-40 damage difference).
- You still would do higher DPS with Nova than you would with Storm, due to just being able to attack faster than the status bite, but most normal monsters don't have enough HP for that to matter. It may be more noticeable in a 4-person party though.

--------------

Anyway, my main gripe with storm driver in FSC is that it slows monsters down. In general, if I'm trying to get ricochets, I need my monsters to be moving towards me, not stopping sporadically. I've also found that trying to aim at shocked vana/trojans is kind of terrible when they use their tackle moves. The shock is pretty nice if you do get them together.

Final conclusion:
- Storm-only is pretty much equal to Nova-only if you're in a party with 1-2 people.
- Storm+Nova is better than Storm-only and Nova-only.

Mon, 11/19/2012 - 23:30
#12
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
Anyway, my main gripe with

Anyway, my main gripe with storm driver in FSC is that it slows monsters down

I guess that's a preference thing. I've been playing with shiver/freeze literally since I started, so prefer a stationary/impaired target myself. While I'm gunning, if a monster gets shocked on the spot, I take full advantage of it and plow him rotten while he can't move. I find myself more cautious of monsters that can move or otherwise violate my face.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 06:06
#13
Flamearc's picture
Flamearc
Which one looks cooler

Which one looks cooler then?
Going by looks now

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 06:50
#14
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
http://wiki.spiralknights.com

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Storm_Driver
Stormy has wee sparks that trail behind it.
Stormys bullets are small and surroudned by shocks (on higher gfx settings)

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Magma_Driver
Magma has no animation trails.
Magmas bullets are bigger and pulse oranges and reds.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 14:04
#15
Atacii
...

I think Storm is the best looking Driver.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:33
#16
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
I think Storm is the best

I think Storm is the best looking Driver.

Unrelated as it is to this discussion, I think Umbra looks the best. I think Magma could have, but they made it look very bland. There's no trail animation and the colouration is quite pale and unimpressive; they could have made it have a lot more vibrant colours and added flame trails (like the AoA, FoV) and made it appear a lot more firey and impressive. Shame.

Until then, Umbra looks da best. Dat purple and black...

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