Spiral Knights - Guild Treasury

Guild Treasury

26 replies [Last post]

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:19

Lil-Toula

Could we have a method (not a tax system but something close) where people running missions/arcade when they loot crowns a percent is created and automatically deposited into the Guild Treasury.

example: I run Vana and loot a total of 7,000 crowns. a percent (say 5%) is created and then deposited into the Guild Treasury. In this example it would be 350 crown. (7k * 0.05).

I'm thinking automatically created because I don't feel a tax (thus removal of the funds from the player) is a good thing. This could be an upgrade that has to be purchased and thus could be easily made back. The percentage could be increased for an additional price.

5% - 50,000 crowns (for those eu people that's 50.000)
10% - 120,000 crowns (eu 120.000)
*Note the prices listed are just examples.

This could be a better incentive to get guild members together to run the clockworks.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:29

Epiclazer

blarg

So, what you are saying is that we should be able to tax our guildmates?
Sounds like you want to start a government system of some sort.
As for getting people back into the clockworks, it'll just become more of a ghost town, because people don't like taxes overall.

EDIT: We don't need taxing. People can put in their own money in their treasury whenever they feel like it. I'm fine with that.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:49

Forum-Brady

I know you said that you

I know you said that you don't mean/want a tax system....but everything you described is a tax system, and you mentioned absolutely nothing to separate your suggestion from a tax system.

Also:
(for those eu people that's 50.000)

I've no idea what you're talking about. Fifty point zero zero zero is not fifty thousand; it is in fact just fifty. A period and a comma are very separate things in the context of numeracy.
Not to mention the fact that even if we did read it in such a nonsensical way, we would still understand what you meant; there'd be no need to "translate".
It'd be like me saying: "red coloured sword (for you US folks, that's "color")".
Just seems entirely patronising. Even more so since no one in the world says it that way.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 10:59

Lil-Toula

Well i did explain it. the

Well i did explain it.

the amount given to the guild treasure is created. A tax system would mean that a percent is taken from, this is not what i'm asking for.
in my example of 7k crowns. if there was a take system i would have received 6650. the system i'm proposing I would receive 7k and the guild 350. Thus the 350 part is created and deposited.

I stated a few times that the percentage would be created (by the game) and deposited.

as for the eu thing. I've read numbers and have been confused some times (was 102,000 m, yes I though the spool of cable was one hundred and two thousand meters for a split nano. after which I remembered that the comma was a decimal for me.). Thought I'd help out a little.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:02

Forum-Brady

What your suggesting is to

What your suggesting is to just generate more cr to go to the GH to pay for the upkeep that's made to sink cr, which is being defeated entirely since it'll be getting paid with cr that's created on top of your earnings.

Can you not see how that's a bad idea? The whole concept is to take money away from players to sink gold into the game; you're just trying to devise a loophole so you can essentially pay your upkeep for free.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:04

Ghret

Sense it, feel it, put into words...

Oh, so you mean that 10% of the Crowns you've gotten are created and THEN given to the Guild? Not a 10% cut from your Crowns to the Guild?
I don't know any guild which wouldn't want this! Of course this could cause a "poor get poorer, rich get richer" schism, what with small Guilds unable to raise the Crowns for raising their "tax", whilst the big Guilds will bump it up to the max and just rake in the Crowns.
Of course, if the Guild-Member were able to set a tariff for themselves where a portion of all the Crowns from their runs are automatically directed to the Guild; Well, that's up to the Guild-Member.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:06

Thimol

-----

I've no idea what you're talking about. Fifty point zero zero zero is not fifty thousand; it is in fact just fifty. A period and a comma are very separate things in the context of numeracy.
Not to mention the fact that even if we did read it in such a nonsensical way, we would still understand what you meant; there'd be no need to "translate".
I hate to be that guy, but in many parts of Europe, the comma and period reverse roles. "50,000" could very well be interpreted as a decimal by most French and Spanish people, and some others as well.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:20

Ghret

RE: Thimol

Can we just assume people are smart enough to figure out that having 50 set to 3 decimal places makes far less sense than 50 Thousand? Can we just assume that people are smart enough to figure that out?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:21

Lil-Toula

The idea i'm referring about

The idea i'm referring about would create new crowns and deposit them into the treasury. This would assure the guild that something is being deposited. The limit would be the percent that is created and the amount of CE one has to run the clockworks (not assuming the elevator thing).

Yes big guilds would make more (as they have more members, but i also assume they have more upkeep as well).

Donations are all and good but some people wont do it. Those same people would use the GH.

@Ghret Yes, created then added to Guild. This isnt a tax. Taxes would remove crowns from the player. Also note that no one can remove crowns from the guild treasury unless an item (furniture or GH upgrades) are purchased.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 11:28

Forum-Brady

I don't know any guild which

I don't know any guild which wouldn't want this!

Ofc every guild would want this. This is essentially negating the upkeep at zero personal expense.

Donations are all and good but some people wont do it. Those same people would use the GH.

So you have some guild members that refuse to donate...so your solution is to utterly negate the entire concept of a cr sink? You tell them to stop using the GH, to donate or to leave the guild.

Also note that no one can remove crowns from the guild treasury unless an item (furniture or GH upgrades) are purchased.

Now you're saying that this free currency that's been created out of thin air on top of your runs earnings can actually be spent by the player! Who needs to spend the 9k they made from FSC when they get an extra 10% thrown into the GH at no cost for them to spend instead?

I'm starting to think you're just trolling, and/or you have absolutely zero appreciation or understanding of the economy in MMOs....and possible real life?

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 13:00

#10

Psychodestroyer

I was confused.

I am still confused.

Why would you try to create cr from nothing to help people that didn't give a slag in the first place? In fact, people are going to start thinking instead that the percent that was created from theirs could have been 'better spent' being given to them, then start feeling cheated.

Also, what's to stop the guild from putting the highest possible percentage? Like, idk, 100%? The Upkeep as Brady has already mentioned will be negated.

I am definitely with Brady on this one. If the members don't donate, you can either deal with it, ask them to donate, tell them not to use the GH or tell them to leave. If they're not willing to help out, even when asked, but would rather take advantage of the guild, then they shouldn't be there.

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 13:34

#11

Lil-Toula

OOO would limit the amount of

OOO would limit the amount of percentage that could be created.

If someone isnt understanding what i'm talking about. look toward WoW and their Guild Perks. Cash Flow is what I'm referring to here.

From WowWiki:
Cash Flow is a Guild Perk that increases the guild bank's coffers. When a mob is looted for money, a percentage of that money is created and placed directly into the guild bank. The player does not lose any gold from looting mobs. Rank 1, available at guild level 5, generates 5% additional money. Rank 2, at guild level 16, generates 10%.

Obviously the Guild rank here doesnt apply. OOO could attach different percents to different levels of the GH (talking about floor levels here, just like they are doing to furniture).

Tue, 11/20/2012 - 16:43

#12

Thimol

-----

I can, but not on this forum.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:10

#13

Forum-Brady

@Lil: Oh no, we all

@Lil:

Oh no, we all understand what you mean, it's just that the idea is... (what's a polite word for "idiotic"? I'm trying to not get banned again...) falling victim to a fundamental problem; that is to say that you're suggesting it to directly negate a key mechanic of the GH to cater to greedy/selfish people that refuse to participate. (Game changes should never be made because people are too lazy, selfish, careless, et cetera)

Upkeep is designed as a crown sink, to take crowns out of the economy because crowns are coming in too easily; players can get it too easily and are amassing too much. My current GH is worth probably north of 50m cr right now and that hasn't stopped any of our richer players from being rich, nor being able to continue to buy more; a perfect example that we, as a guild, have far too much money. So the GH is going to eat all that money from us, then another 400k a week to moderate how much income we can get.

What you're suggesting utterly negates all that by allowing us to fill up the crown sink without actually paying anything ourselves. We continue to get rich and richer while the crown sink takes nothing from us, completely defeating the point of it.

If WoW has such a mechanic as to create free gold, then their gold sinks are obviously in different sections of the game; I don't play WoW so I can't comment on that, but a crown sink can't be juxtaposed with a crown generator. It just doesn't work.

Hopefully you now understand why this idea is... flawed?

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 01:24

#14

Severage

...

Just pointing this out...

WoW has no need for gold sinks. They don't worry about those. You can buy a lot of things with gold, but nothing (Except maybe new mounts) are a significant "Gold sink". In WoW, gold simply isn't generated nearly as quickly as in Spiral Knights.

Comparing WoW, an economy that except for the purpose of ridiculous inflation, needs no gold sinks, to Spiral Knights, a game heavily reliant on its free market economy, or pulling economical ideas from one to the other, doesn't sound like a good idea.

~Sev

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 06:54

#15

Lil-Toula

...

actually you say the idea is flawed but if you use mist alone how many FSC can you run (per week)? The need for CE is negated by getting an elevator pass (which does removed the need to buy CE).

If OOO used a maximum of 10% created crowns to be deposited directly into the guild treasury, it would take 4 million crowns weekly to loot (by the guild) to get enough directly deposited into the treasury just to cover the upkeep of 400k/wk. I know my guild doesnt have all 100+ members doing FSC enough to generate that much.

If a guild had 300 active members (yes that's impossible). You could get away with each member looting 13,334 crown weekly to cover the upkeep cost.

The Guild Perk from WoW was just an example. Seemed some people were not understanding the concept I had. Others thought I was talking about a 'tax' which I wasn't. I've played Eve Online which uses a tax system and didn't noticed the upwards of 20% being taken out (but we're talking about different drop amounts).

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:04

#16

Severage

@Toula:

Okay, I haven't read this whole thread but...

You're saying that everything you do, 10% of that (But not taken from you - generated out of thin air) goes to the Treasury?

Why negate crown sinks? It's not good for the economy.

~Sev

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:17

#17

Lil-Toula

only Looting from the

only Looting from the clockworks, danger missions, dlc's etc. (ie the game wouldn't create it from the AH sales).

I don't see how this would completely negate (as those in the thread are saying) a crown sink. it would more be a ease of use.

Also that 10% was an easy number to use. OOO could use any percentage they choose and any number of tiers if they so choose.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:29

#18

Forum-Brady

You realise that Elevator

You realise that Elevator Passes actually made inflation worse? You can't use them to justify increasing the problem further...

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:45

#19

Lil-Toula

@Brady you do realize that

@Brady you do realize that inflation will happen. only way to stop it is to limit the actual amount of currency being provided to players. even if the player base is increased the same amount of currency must be the same.

another way to stop inflation is to stop OOO from giving equal amounts of created currency per player. but this thread isn't about inflation, it's about helping out guilds with their rent and purchases of furniture (also specialty rooms) via a method that would give an incentive for knights to hit up the clockworks/missions.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 07:55

#20

Forum-Brady

limit the actual amount of

limit the actual amount of currency being provided to players.

Good point!

Y'know it's crazy, there's this guy on the Suggestions forum right now who's suggesting that we introduce a feature that increases crown output on a grand scale, when everyone -including OOO- is aware that we should, as you say, be limiting it and implementing cr sinks.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 09:31

#21

Dancinjen

The point is... it's not

The point is... it's not going to work. period. This idea no.

I still think the best solution is for each individual player to be able to automatically take out a certain percent out of their runs... IF THEY CHOSE. We need to have a toggle feature just like we do when we can chose what kind of party we want on the run. Or... we can make it a feature in the game settings tab.

But to generate crowns when the whole point of this is to get rid of crowns from the market because there has been a massive excess of crowns... KIND OF contradicts what we've been wanting for like a year now.

All this is doing is making it easier on some lazy nights. Save up. Build up your funds. Don't buy more than you should. LEARN to manage your guild funds and what you need when and where.

Wed, 11/21/2012 - 09:46

#22

Forum-Brady

another way to stop inflation

another way to stop inflation is to stop OOO from giving equal amounts of created currency per player

I'll admit I skipped your last post after the first paragraph because I was pretty convinced you had no idea what you were talking about anyways, but I was just skimmed and saw that line.

Now I'm absolutely convinced you've no idea what you're on about.

Why...would that help? Or be fair? Or good? In any way.

.....What?

Sun, 12/09/2012 - 12:40

#23

Shotjeer

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAhaHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA........................I revived bump

Mon, 12/10/2012 - 14:53

#24

Pawsmack

Needs to be elaborated more but other than that seems like a good idea. Wouldn't be good for the economy in your text. But I'm sure if someone were to take this and make it work in way it would be better for everyone this would be much better. I'm not going to -1 just because others don't support it. It's better to support at least some of it than none. I admire the idea but not the text.

Mon, 12/10/2012 - 22:43

#25

Lightplasma

That would suck for players

That would suck for players like me, who are still trying to get enough crowns to get only 3* stuff.
I can earn about 6K on a JK run. 10% of 6000 is 600, so I would get about 5400 crowns. since 3* gear is about 18K, that would add and extra run I would need to do. And it takes me about twenty minutes to do a JK run, so that really wouldn't work out.

Tue, 12/11/2012 - 11:42

#26

Pawsmack

@Lightplasma

What are the chances of being in a guild that early into the game? ._. Or at least even a guild that needs the tax?...

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