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LD Bombers need some love, OOO!

60 replies [Last post]
Mon, 11/26/2012 - 19:43
#51
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
It's an example. You don't

It's an example. You don't use hazes for the damage, you use it for crowd control and status spread. Immune players can completely ignore both of these aspects and simply walk through it. It's why I said that even flooring it at 1sec would be acceptable, as it would still deter people, and walking in it would still inflict at all; sheer immunity makes the weapon a complete waste of time, which would be the same as being immune to a FF that's only good for damage; there'd be no point even using it. Why should I even bother bringing my VT anymore, when so many people are getting shockwalker sets? Do you think OOO will refund me the CE for my VT because other players made sets that defeat every useful aspect of my weapon? Not likely.

And would it pain me to use a GF? Partly, because I'd have no sword damage and no sword asi, so I'd probably get killed trying to use it, and using it wouldn't result in much damage. Not to mention the fact that "I can use swords" shouldn't be an acceptable reason to leave dps bombs nerfed. I don't want to use swords, is the entire point; I want to bomb. I shouldn't have to use a sword because my dps bombs are completely useless and my haze bombs can literally be ignored. Again; if you were up against someone who was immune to FF and you wanted to play sword-striker, how would you feel if someone said "just use bombs instead"? It's not a fair answer.
I am aware that "pure weaponing" is discouraged in the grand scheme of things and that sidearms are the answer to certain problems don't get me wrong; I know full well that I'm putting myself in a bad position by taking no sidearms, but the fact is that if I did take a sidearm, I'd probably be better off just using that instead of the bombs. But if I'm going to just wind up using my sword all the time (since bombs won't get me damage or kills) then I might as well use a swordy set. And roll striker.

As for normal attacks; I have said about balancing being an issue. Don't treat it as "total spam every second", treat it as swords normal attacks but with virtually no damage to speak of. You drop one; there'd still be an animation (so it wouldn't be like spamming guns where you can just shootshootshoot), there'd still be det counts, and the damage would do far less (and mind, the damage from charges is already less than a single brandish swing, so it'd be little different than spamming a Sent/AP that only goes off once every second). Regular attacks with bombs could simply not be used for damage, they'd just be used for a quick drop while you're panicking or under polaris barrage and such, when charging is unreasonably difficult.
Charging would be used when you're not being bombarded by trolly or when you're not utterly surrounded.
Again though, I'm not saying that's the best thing to do, just that it's an option to be considered when trying to think of what can give bombers a fighting chance again.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 20:03
#52
Doctorspacebar's picture
Doctorspacebar
Demoman's patience is credit to Demoman

no rad marker would be op, because unlike swords, you don't have to be in the victim's screen to let off a bomb. you can let off a bomb and run away. some random kid will walk in to the unmarked bomb area, and BOOM random nitro, taking half their HP (assuming they don't have trinkets). As I mentioned before, taking out just the timer would give bombers and edge, because strikers will be taking a chance to go in, not knowing when the bomb will set off.

Wrong. The bomb has a sprite; in Nitro's case it's a glowing white ball. You won't miss it unless you're either inattentive or distracted by something else. Inattentive? You'll get brutally mauled by a roaming Skolver anyway, the Nitro is actually more merciful. Distracted? I will again reference the roaming Skolver that will brutally maul you.

The exception is Strikers, who might run in too fast to see it coming. However, is this a bad thing? Strikers can already run in with a quarter-second warning and jab you with a Flourish, or pelt you with a bullet or a sword charge from barely on-screen. If it happens the other way round, with the Striker running in and getting the quarter-second warning before being blown up by a Nitro, I hardly see how that's unfair. Why, I think that's balanced!

We don't know when the Striker is going to run in and jab us, or even if they've got an ASI VH GF in the off slot they're waiting to whack us with. Why should they know when our bomb is going to blow up?

EDIT: Also, if you have a new opinion, please just make a new post, or if you were the last poster, edit your last post.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 20:13
#53
Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
I just noticed this line,

I just noticed this line, actually:

because unlike swords you don't have to be in the victim's screen to let off a bomb

Brandish, anyone? The charge is long enough that you can be offscreen and let off a charge that will easily deal at least 2x any nitro, as well as inflicting status.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 20:40
#54
Uniquevariant's picture
Uniquevariant
to further brady's point

its impossible to run into a bomb that is off the screen. No bomb has that range. The player has to be on the screen before he can be hit by a bomb. Sooooo, he has plenty of time to see the bomb and consciously choose not to run into it.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 21:53
#55
Wodanct's picture
Wodanct
As I use to play Lockdown I

As I use to play Lockdown I remember being one of those strikers that run into a haze, but it isn't because we don't pay attention. I play the game on low settings and lot of the time I noticed that if I don't see the bomb dropped on my screen then its haze doesn't even show up when I am charging it. Really annoying to run into a stun haze and not even see the haze in the first place.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 23:02
#56
Kamen-Rider-Faiz's picture
Kamen-Rider-Faiz
what we need

i will say it again "clear thought and do best Mr. Hercule impresion": We need is more bomb more EXPLOSIONS!! We need a bombs that are basically a shadow/element/piercing base nitronome heck change deconstructor into an element damage bomb and give it a 5* form with consturct vh, or make irontech usable and piercing damage or something idk. i will say it again more EXPLOSIONS!!! why not enough stuff in clockwork EXPLODED thats why!!

also playing to much mr.torgue dlc so yeah EXPLOSIONS!!!!

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 05:29
#57
Darkbrady's picture
Darkbrady
What? Is that just a troll

What? Is that just a troll post or is there some point in there that I've horribly missed?

Sat, 12/08/2012 - 12:04
#58
Toah's picture
Toah
A few thoughts

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the matter, but here is my bomber wishlist.
#1 No warning in LD
#2 Piercing & Shadow defence sets
#3 Shadow haze that inflicts curse >:D
#4 MORE DPS BOMBS! Gunners have their drivers, swordies have their brandishes, where are our awesome DPS weapons? Hazes are ok I guess, but can we get some bombs that blow up like the nitro/DBB but deal elemental+status & Why no love for shadow damage? Give us more choices!

Gunners have easily obtainable DPS weapons (Valiance, Drivers, Callahan) that deal all the different damage types, and have an armor set for each damage type
Swordies have easily obtainable DPS weapons (Levi, Brandishes, Toothpicks) that deal all the different damage types, and have an armor set for each damage type
Bombers have 2 easily obtainable DPS bombs (Nitro, DBB) that deal normal and piercing, with a poor selection of specialized DPS bombs, and have 4 choices of elemental defence. Facing toothpicks? too bad, have fun getting killed in one hit before your bomb is even charged.

Sword guys are getting all the love from OOO, gunners could use some more (how about a shield?) but you want to be a LD bomber? May god have mercy on your soul.

At this rate I think it's impossible to give bombers too much love.

Edit: Make deconstructor deal elemental and buff it a little, and make a DBB shadow line and I will love you forever <3

Sat, 12/08/2012 - 12:38
#59
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
In T2, bombers could use a

In T2, bombers could use a little range buff. Most of the charge attacks in T2 LD are kinda crappy, particularly on bombs. Bomb radius should be increased, and brandish charge-movement-speed (not CTR, I mean like charge ASI) should be increased.

I would love it if you couldn't see the bombs radius. Or at least, until the bomb was on your screen.

Also... "Remove polaris."? No. It needs a nerf, but it's better to fix problematic things than just throw them out the window. Of course, they basically threw RSS out the window when it could have easily been setup so you can't get multisharded. Polaris completes swordies though, it's range only (swordies don't need a close range gun), and it explodes.

Sat, 12/08/2012 - 19:19
#60
Toah's picture
Toah
Shard Bombs

I spent the night doing runs with some shard bombs, a little buff to speed OR damage OR Range and they could be fantastic DPS bombs.

I still want a nitro/DBB style elemental/shadow bomb :/

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