Spiral Knights - Sleep, the Forgotten Status

Sleep, the Forgotten Status

20 replies [Last post]

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 11:28

Xenonguard

In my time in the Clockworks, I have noticed the Sleep vial, which got me thinking. Why isn't this in the game for enemies? The purpose of this thread is to collect ideas on how the Sleep status effect could be further used.The enemies "Sloom" (http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Sloom#Sloom) and "Sloombargo" have removed from the official game, but if these were to return to the game, I would keep their attacks so they will not be listed here.

ENEMIES

Slumber:
I know it's a cheesy name, but it fits the purpose I have given it, which is a Sleep status dealing Lumber. You get Lumbers for fire, ice, shock and even stun, but not sleep. Similar to other status Lumbers, it would use a Smash attack, which in this case would give you a Sleep status effect (the effect would be weak in T1, Medium in T2 and Strong in T3) , leaving you open to attacks from other enemies. He would probably be a similar colour to the Slooms.

PLACEHOLDER:
For this one I have not decided the name yet, so post below what you think the name should be.

This would be a status devilite for Sleep, which would be wearing a little nightcap and holding a pillow. He would throw the pillows at you, which have a chance of causing Medium Sleep, which can actually cause him to fall asleep as well. (perhaps a slight or low chance). As well as the Slumber, he would have a similar colour scheme to the Sloom.

Thank you for reading! Suggestions in the replies are always welcome. Also, for a great thread on the re-implementation of sleep which I plan to follow see here http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/51247

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:21

Verodius

I think the main reason you

I think the main reason you don't see any Sleep effects is that it'd be either too OP (If you're asleep you can't do anything at all, at least Freeze lets you block) or too exploitable (Sleeping creatures regenerate health, which means said creatures/bomb could possibly be used to heal)

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:36

Xenonguard

Tweaks

Then perhaps some tweaks would be in order, such as removing the regenerating health thing. However, I have never seen the regenerating health thing on enemies, so that's new to me.
EDIT: Post updated with mention to said changes.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 12:58

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

Here's a question; why should sleep be added? Essentially you have done nothing more than saying I want sleep, and here are some sleep variants for already existing enemies and equipment.

Pillow bomb? Heck no. Kill all the enemies in a room, put yourself to sleep, heal back to full.

Sleep enemies? Kill all but one enemy in the room, have it put all but one party member to sleep, kill the last member, heal back to full.

Sleep was removed for a removed for a reason.

Oh what, remove the health regen? Well now you just have a status that is superior to freeze in every single way, except thaw damage, which lets be honest, isn't really a game changing factor.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 13:35

Xenonguard

@Oatmonster

Well if you read the wiki there are some monsters immune to sleep, so I suppose enemies such as constructs wouldn't be able to sleep and possibly non living ones such as trojans and undead (although undead already cannot be affected by sleep vials). And besides, if the sleep status was so bad, then why is the sleep vial still here?

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 13:47

Verodius

@Neon

a) Sleep does in fact work on undead (though admittedly it can be hard to tell if Sleep is working or not since it has basically no Graphical effect.) The only enemies immune to sleep are Constructs & Bosses.

b) Because Sleep Vials, like Curse Vials are pretty rare and drop randomly, which makes them too unreliable to rely upon when it comes to combat.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 14:09

Xenonguard

Useless Sleep Vials -.-

If sleep vials were so unreliable to use, then people wouldn't use them very much (if at all) so thus it is a useless feature left to encourage foolish forumgoers such as myself to go post threads on the Sleep status. :(

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 14:23

Verodius

Er...

People barely ever even use the regular Vials, let alone the rarer Sleep ones. In fact, the only times I've ever used (or seen somebody use) Vials in any real capacity are:

1. Using a Shock Vial to do the "reverse Puppy Room" bug in FSC if they don't have a Polaris/Voltech Alchemer

2. Throwing a Freeze Vial at Vana to buy your Bomber time to place a Shiver or two.

3. Poison Vials to stop Royal Jelly healing himself

4. Stun Vials as a sort of "Instant Knockback" tool for when you're getting swarmed by enemies.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 14:33

Xenonguard

I suppose people find more use for vials in earlier tiers such as T1 but I use vials a lot, especially fire vials which is great for wearing down an enemy while you hammer on the "real" damage.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 19:22

Hexzyle

@Neonguard

If sleep vials were so unreliable to use, then people wouldn't use them very much (if at all)

Sleep vials are perfectly reliable way of delivering sleep. Obtaining sleep vials at a regular rate is not. It's just there to every now and then deal some special status on the enemy. Take a look at curse, it's quite powerful compared to the other statuses, yet it also doesn't have a weapon that deals it out reliably.

Mon, 11/26/2012 - 22:33

#10

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

@Neonguard, Um, ok? I don't see how that has anything to do with my comment. Sleep has no buisness being put back into the game. Either it lets you heal, or it is superior to freeze in every way. The only way it would be re-implimented was if it was completley re-done, and that's not what you're doing here.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:57

#11

Xenonguard

@Oatmonster

Well have any ideas on how sleep would be implemented?

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 00:59

#12

Xenonguard

@Hexzyle

What about the Gran Faust? The second hit in its two-hit combo has a chance of dealing curse only to the enemy but not the player, unlike the Gran Faust's charge attack which has a chance of doing the same but also to the player.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 02:26

#13

Hexzyle

@Neonguard

As I said, unreliably and/or with high risk to the user. Unlike Alchemers and Haze bombs that deal the status nearly certainly with no drawbacks. (Alchemers apply with about 20% of shots, from what I remember)

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 08:19

#14

Xenonguard

@Hexzyle

Well as I said with the Pillowbomb it wasn't to be exactly like a Haze bomb so It could have something like every second there is a 10% chance of a creature within range falling asleep.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 10:03

#15

Hexzyle

@Neonguard

Well as I said with the Pillowbomb it wasn't to be exactly like a Haze bomb so It could have something like every second there is a 10% chance of a creature within range falling asleep.

Then that's rediculous. I'd take a Shivermist over that anyday. It's either going to be overpowered, or unreliable. With haze bombs you can't have a middle ground.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:07

#16

Magnicth

Well, I guess I could get

Well, I guess I could get things slightly a bit more on topic. I had thought up with a way to rearrange sleep so it's not so op. I'm not sure if it's the best idea, but it might work.
It's simple. Remove the healing. And instead, when sleep is inflicted, there could be perhaps a 50/50 chance (I have no idea how to make numbers work, so feel free to adjust it to make it better) of the inflicted going into "sleepwalking"(or perhaps just leave it to automatically happen when sleep is afflicted with a 100% chance,I have no idea). Basically what sleepwalking is, is the inflicted runs and attacks in randomized directions, allbeit at a slower rate, perhaps a happy medium between stun and shock. Perhaps increase the damage of attacks slightly. It could last maybe 10 seconds or so (again, not good with numbers). The problem though is LD. Perhaps when a player is induced with sleep and starts sleepwalking and attacking and running in random directions, while the screen goes to a short LD standby or loading screen or something like that. Again, there are probably numerous ways one could adjust this idea to make it work better. It might be tricky to implement though, but perhaps it could work.
I do remember an idea similar to this somewhere (not sure where, so if it sounds like I am stealing an idea, i apologize immensely) where when put to sleep, the player would go into a trance like state and could only walk in one direction, but could attack and shield.
Either way, perhaps this could be used to bring sleep back in a (hopefully) non-op manner that allows the inflicted to defend itself, allbeit randomly and slowly, but it might work. No idea though.

~Magnicth

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 15:14

#17

Psychodestroyer

The Healing of sleep isn't what makes it OP, it's one of the 'downsides'. Inflicted opponent can heal, as opposed to just not doing anything?

As for the sleepwalking, I got nothing.

Tue, 11/27/2012 - 19:35

#18

Hexzyle

There was a decent discussion regarding the re-implementation of sleep here, I do recommend giving it a read through.

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 08:26

#19

Xenonguard

@Hexzyle

That looks like a really good post. I'll link it in this one. Besides all that "Blargh Sleep is OP" Business any feedback for the weapons and enemies?

Wed, 11/28/2012 - 09:05

#20

Hexzyle

What I went over in that

What I went over in that thread is that if sleep was to be reimplemented in a very similar way to how it works now, there can't be any weapons that inflict it. Knights may be inflicted with it by enemies, but no weapon should be able to deliver sleep to monsters elsewhere in the clockworks.

If you want weapons that deal a new status, you'll need to invent that status yourself, not re-use an old status that doesn't work.

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Sleep, the Forgotten Status