Spiral Knights - Story Logic

Story Logic

38 replies [Last post]

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:01

Laraso

I've been thinking (over-analyzing) about the story in this game, and none of it makes any sense. I decided I may as well post some of my thoughts here, in case anyone else found them of interest.

1) We're stranded on a distant planet, and the only way to escape is to retrieve a mysterious, unknown power source hidden in the center of the planet so we can power the Skylark and leave cradle.

How do we even know there is a power source in the core? All knights who speak of it always start by saying things like "There seems to be..." or "We believe that...". Such words represent doubt and ignorance. Why are we trying so fervently to break into the core, if we aren't even 100% sure that whatever is inside will be of any use? If there is a power source, are we really 100% sure we will be able to use it to power the Skylark? If it really can be used to power the Skylark, are we sure that the Skylark will even fly again? Isn't there at least one undeniable truth for us to justify our efforts? If not, that means everything we've done so far is based purely on assumptions, guesswork, and wishful thinking.

Also, why do we need to fix the Skylark? Can't we use the large variety of resources that are available to us on Cradle to come up with a more practical solution? I'm assuming nobody in the Spiral Order has ever thought about building smaller craft and sending a convoy of knights to get help from wherever they came from.

Are we sure that opening the core is an ideal solution? It's the core of an entire planet. What would happen to Cradle if they ever broke into it?

2) The core is protected by a massive, impregnable shell. Nobody in the Spiral Order knows how to break it, and the people who are the most capable of assisting us are hostile.

So, we've already reached the core (as to why the knights still need to hack-n-slash their way through the clockworks after having already reached their destination still puzzles me), and we haven't really done much besides twiddle our thumbs since we got there. We're clueless as to how we're supposed to crack it, and the species most knowledgeable about the core (Gremlins) is hostile and uncooperative.

Ignoring the fact that there is an entire city of outcast allied Gremlins who'd probably be able to help, our only other ally (Strangers) is too busy making money off of us with their stores and auction houses to be of any real assistance.

3) Haven's currency - crowns - can be found virtually anywhere within the clockworks.

The Stranger's have a pretty successful business running in Haven, and have without a doubt become very wealthy from the knights that use their services. The only problem is that the main objective of the Spiral Order is to breach the core, and to get to the core a knight must kill limitless amounts of enemies along the way. That means they are capable of acquiring a limitless amount of crowns. This means that the crown is not a viable currency, and inflation should be plaguing everyone in Haven.

Despite the existence of a bottomless well of money that most call the "clockworks", the Strangers seem determined to continue charging the same amount of cash for their services today as they did the moment the Spiral Knights arrived. How they are able to charge such low prices and still run successful businesses is a total mystery, but who are we to question their flawless business decisions.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:15

Irthan

How do we even know there is

How do we even know there is a power source in the core?

Mist energy.

... everything we've done so far is based purely on assumptions, guesswork, and wishful thinking.

Sure. But it's been fun.

Also, why do we need to fix the Skylark?

Because building a whole new ship to carry tens of thousands of knights is far less practical.

I'm assuming nobody in the Spiral Order has ever thought about building smaller craft and sending a convoy of knights to get help ...

Sure, but that takes time, and SK is eternally in the time period a month or so after the crash.

... from wherever they came from.

And now you're assuming that wherever they came from still exists.

Are we sure that opening the core is an ideal solution? It's the core of an entire planet. What would happen to Cradle if they ever broke into it?

Ask Alpha team.

... an entire city of outcast allied Gremlins ...

Who might not know how to open the core any better than we do. Heck, we're not even sure that the gremlins are capable of doing this at all.

Haven's currency - crowns - can be found virtually anywhere within the clockworks.

This... I can't explain. But it sure is convenient.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:26

Laraso

@Irthan

And now you're assuming that wherever they came from still exists.
-
If it didn't exist, why would they be so desperate to leave Cradle? If they have no place to return to, wouldn't it be more practical to simply call Cradle home, settle into Haven, and continue living with the Strangers?

Who might not know how to open the core any better than we do. Heck, we're not even sure that the gremlins are capable of doing this at all.
-
That's the entire point. If we've never even bothered to communicate with our allies and discuss the situation, how could we even consider ourselves allies? In Emberlight, we're more like a group of tourists passing through a souvenir store on their way through. I could hardly call it an alliance.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:40

Psychodestroyer

Point 1:
Mist energy was revealed to be energy radiating from a dense source, effectively saturating the air with it. The scientists speculated it was coming from the center of the planet.

Point 2:
The problem is not so much fixing the Skylark, as finding a large enough power source to power it, considering it's main reactor-engine-thingy went kablooey.

Point 3:
Yeah, the Emberlite thing isn't really an alliance. It's more like: 'We don't like them any more than you do.'

As for 'breaking into the core', they're supposed to leave that to the scientists. They're not trying to so much 'break into it' as 'find a way to harness it's power'. However, they way is currently sealed for some reason or another, hence the 'break in' they want.

"I'm assuming nobody in the Spiral Order has ever thought about building smaller craft and sending a convoy of knights to get help "

But...but...but travelling in a massive group of millions of knights crammed into a single ship all singing 'The turbines in the engine go 'round and 'round' is SO MUCH MORE FUN!!!

Also HQ doesn't really have anyone for the job. They WOULD send Alpha Squad, if they didn't go missing. As it stands, you character is supposed to be 'the only good warrior' in their force who isn't needed for some other task. The rest of the crew on Cradle are essential in maintaining order in Haven, and assisting new Knight. To send one of them off would upset the balance.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:52

Irokwe

Another Question.

Also, where do new knights come from?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:53

Irokwe

Double post :/

-snip-

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 15:56

Psychodestroyer

They come from pods which haven't quite crashed onto the planet yet. Probably still sitting in orbit.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 16:04

Irokwe

@Psycho

If something is in orbit, it is experiencing centrifugal(?) force, which makes it go 'outward'. They cannot crash into the planet unless they for some reason are abruptly slowed, which would probably result in the death of a knight. You argument is therefore invalid, find another one.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 16:20

Nottheanswer

Objects in orbit experience centripetal force, which is an inward force. The object itself will exert a reactionary centrifugal force, but the idea of an object in orbit moving outward is an illusion. Intuitively, an orbiting object is constantly falling towards the object around which it is orbiting.

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 16:36

Psychodestroyer

Actually, orbits are not perfectly circular. As a result, the orbit 'ovals' increasingly.

Also a large body of rock orbiting alongside the pod could nudge it into a collision course. A direct impact is also possible, assuming the crash pods are reinforced against such impacts, which is likely, considering the force of the eventual crash.

/argumenttotallyvalid

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 17:43

#10

Immortous

It's Physics Time!!!

Centrifugal force actually does not exist if you want to get technical. It is a result of a poor physics analysis in the situation.
The object in uniform circular motion has an acceleration vector that always points towards the center (the planet), and where acceleration is, a force must be also, which is centripetal force. Something must supply that force however. The answer is gravity.

(The law of universal gravity)
"The gravity exerted on an object" = "The universal gravity constant" x "the mass of object 1" x "the mass of object 2", divided by "the distance between the two object's centers" squared.

@Psycho - I'm not entirely sure if the elliptical orbit of the planets also applies to a satellite orbiting a planet (the escape pod).

I hope yall learned something! =P

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 20:58

#11

Uplus-Echd

So meta.

If they have no place to return to, wouldn't it be more practical to simply call Cradle home, settle into Haven, and continue living with the Strangers?

It is clear that the natives (Gremlins) don't want us here, which is why they are doing everything in their bones to get us gone.

I'm rather shifty about the Strangers, they are just simply... strangers. We know nothing about them except that they are merchants. Perhaps they are at war with the Gremlins and that they are helping us in order to use us to wipe out their enemy. Thinking about how we get crowns from defeating the Gremlins and their allies only means that they are simply bounty merits that endorses us to fight against these creatures.

But the question still remains... why are they carrying crowns in the first place? Are they the same to the Clockwork races as they are to Knights? Why are mechanised beings being paid then?

I can understand heat however, it is the life force of the enemy that is harvested to enhance our weaponry.

I also question Tinkinzar's tyranny, is he tyrant simply for stability of his people like the Terran Republic? Or is he a tyrant for the sake of being a corrupt being?

Thu, 11/29/2012 - 21:05

#12

Psychodestroyer

"@Psycho - I'm not entirely sure if the elliptical orbit of the planets also applies to a satellite orbiting a planet (the escape pod)."

It would, depending on trajectory and whatnot.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 08:55

#13

Nexassassin

My turn to over-analyse!

No, we aren't 100% sure that whatever is inside will be of any use. No we aren't we 100% sure we will be able to use it to power the Skylark. No, we aren't sure it can really be used to power the Skylark. Isn't there at least one undeniable truth for us to justify our efforts? Yes. A chance of getting their shipped powered is better than no chance at all, right? The core is the only possible thing (so far) that can power the ship. Well that and probably all the energy we give whenever we buy weapon slots and what not...that might be a long term solution though.

Why do we need to fix the Skylark?

Well, if the knights were seriously thinking about fixing the Skylark, then the damage must not be too severe as to render it as scrap.

Resources ya say? I haz 1.5k Scrap Metal, 146 Force Dynamos and 10 Philoso Feathers. Is dis enuff? We're probably limited in our options given the resources available.

If we were to come up with a more practical solution, sending out a distress signal would be a far more viable option than to make a small convoy ship. The nearest possible help could be lightyears away and I sincerely doubt they could make a ship that can traverse that that large of a distance fast enough without using a lot of energy. They would most likely be dead before even reaching a fraction of the distance required. Or even worse....they could run out of fuel and get stranded on a planet somewhere where people spend thousands of dollars on accessories.

As for the signal part, they still need some sort of device that's powerful enough to send signals lightyears away and they still need substantial amounts of energy, though not as much. The Skylark may already have such apparatus! Though well...it needs power. Who knows! The Skylark may have already sent one! Though it may take years before it reaches anything...then they have to reply and get here...then the signal may have gotten interrupted by cosmic hoohas and they have to send another one yada yada. The game's been out for ~two years right? The signal might not have reached anything yet.

Crown part!
Crowns may not literally mean "crowns". They may be a collective term of whatever the hell the Strangers are willing to trade their goods or services for. Isn't it much better to say "I have 10k crowns" than "I have 1k potted plant leaves, 200 Cursed Gremlin guts and 500 Cooked Rotten Flesh"?

Inflation
The strangers may have their own gremlin gut-sinks thus explaining how it's possible they're always able to charge the same amount of leaves for the things they sell.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:06

#14

Canine-Vladmir

the storyline is weird.

anyway, the new knights are knights who was in a coma or a hibernation mode (robots) and probaly were in rescue pods for a long long time.
some like the Groundbreakers didnt kick into hibernation mode after being violently shaked while hurling at the planet Cradle.

as for the crowns, where do the Slimes keep their crowns???

and if the undead is dead, why do some have hp hearts?

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:11

#15

Vtipoman

Hmm...and what if:-

Hmm...
and what if:
- Gremlins hate us,because "we" want to break core?
-Alpha squad find way to the core,find something terrible(or awesome) and leave Cradle in small ship?
PS: And I think,that breaking core its dirty,because it can destroyd all living thinks on Cradle. Including Strangers.Its it Ok?I think not.
PS2: Spiral knights its from planet Isora.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:19

#16

Irokwe

@Vladimir

Thank you. That is a logical explanation for my question. Except when the population of knights get very high. We whould have seen giant swarms of pods randomly laying around then.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:24

#17

Softhead

Different crash sites.

In the original version(and maybe the new ones), you can see some other pods.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:28

#18

Little-Juances

The core pulls things

The core pulls things (monsters, whole planets). In fact, maybe that's why we crashed. We can't escape, it won't let us.

So goodbye points 1 and 2. What else can we do? Smashing our heads on the core to see if it opens is the only option. We keep doing CW and kill random monster to fight boredom.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:28

#19

Vtipoman

What if: -gremlin king its in

What if:
-gremlin king its in core
-gremlin king ITS core(he is old,he dont wana die,he transfers himself to core,blablabla)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:34

#20

Little-Juances

2 words:
Echo stones
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Artifacts

RJP and IMF in particular - a small peek: "You fall with purpose, burning ever brighter as you reach for the heart of this world."

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:36

#21

Softhead

....

Well that removes the enity point.

And then if Tinkinzar(The king) is in the core, then how does that fit with the Grand Colony.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:37

#22

Immortous

SPOILER ALERT!

According to SL echo stones, cradle was built to protect whatever is in the core (or the core itself?), though now it serves as a prison (perhaps for the swam?). Its essential the same thing as daedalus' labyrinth in greek mythology.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 09:48

#23

Canine-Vladmir

another SPOILER!

the core has gravity :)

heres a thought:
where not the only stranded ones. Most of these monsters; slimes from a comet, devilites, etc probably were sucked in here too. Just eons before Spiral Knights crashed. hey, in a million years from now, Humans might crash land in Cradle and need to fight the Spiral Knight cannibals.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 16:13

#24

Uplus-Echd

My theory on the origins of crowns.

Crowns are in fact the currency used by the Gremlins, which they use to pay themselves and their possible allies after completing deeds.

It should be noted that the Knights never have minted them; only collecting them from the corpses of the defeated.

Why others than Gremlins carry them can only be theorised by the fact that Contructs are sentient enough to be a member of society and that the other monsters either steal them, collected them from the dead, or are hired by the Gremlins. Devillites do business work, so that's obvious, and Trojans were former knights... dunno why they are dirt poor though.

Also, money do grow on plants. Crazy Gremlin bio-engineers.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 17:49

#25

Chaosdriver

Maybe the core is not just an energy source

as the echo stones say , there is something powerful inside the core and the gremlins protected it building the clockworks,then the being trapped in the clockworks pulled other planets to form cradle´s surface and the knights were also pulled by this being into cradle.Also,maybe the core is not just light and pure energy it also has its dark part which may be the swarm,so thats why the gremlins are keeping it locked,if the knights finally defeat the swarm the entity in the core will be free and the tyranny of tinkinzar will end,the gremlins help the knights repair their ship and boom their in their planet.Thats my theory.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:29

#26

Milkman

LOST!

It's like the television series Lost. We were meant to crash land here.

Go watch all 6 seasons of that, and that is the story of Cradle.

Since the Spiral Order seems to have capable scientists and engineers, they should have no trouble making a spacecraft capable of deep-space travel using the bizarre materials that can be found everywhere on Cradle.

I didn't realise that the Spiral Order had multiple clones of MacGyver.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:27

#27

Hexzyle

@Laraso

1) Spiral Knights don't eat, nor do they require resource to live (such as food or water).

What makes you say this?

Anyway, it's quite possible that crowns are those things, but they've been "censored" as a crown icon so that we don't have to see whatever gory thing it really is that Strangers collect (it could be monster wieners. And not the food kind)

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:42

#28

Laraso

@Milkman, Hexzyle

@Milkman

I didn't realise that the Spiral Order had multiple clones of MacGyver.

That sentence was in context with what I said right before it. He said that the nearest possible location for which we could get help may be lightyears away. If that's true, it means we traveled lightyears away from wherever we came from until we ended up crashing into Cradel, which means we are (or were, at one point in time) capable of deep-space flight.

If it isn't lightyears away, then it's anyone's guess if deep-space travel would be possible.

@Hexzyle

What makes you say this?

The knights are never depicted eating or drinking, and there aren't any food stores in Haven, so...

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 18:57

#29

Hexzyle

@Laraso

The knights are never depicted eating or drinking, and there aren't any food stores in Haven, so...
Doesn't mean that they don't snack out whenever you go afk, or log off. And the Auction House could also be a canteen.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 19:59

#30

Luguiru

I like the idea that crowns are actually butchered resources scavenged from the mutilated remains of fallen native life. It gives me naughty ideas. Ideas that would make Santa disappointed again.

Not that those never happen.

But seriously, I think our knights are like the Transformers: biological machines. Instead of the organic tissue animals have they have metal. A while ago there was a Q and A thread and someone asked if our knights are organic or machine, but all I remember from the response was the original design was inspired by soda cans. Underneath every clone is a sugar pumped fizzy soft drink. Supplies are limited. Go to your local Three Rings to purchase today. Warning, prolonged consumption of soda obtained through clones will cause your internal organs to grow limbs and attain the insatiable urge to dance. Drink with caution.

Fri, 11/30/2012 - 20:00

#31

Softhead

Read the Rocky core text.

That is all.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 03:42

#32

Hexzyle

The knights are never

The knights are never depicted eating or drinking, and there aren't any food stores in Haven, so...

Also, the Bottomless Bladder rule.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 05:08

#33

Zinco

@Laraso "Spiral Knights don't

@Laraso "Spiral Knights don't eat, nor do they require resource to live (such as food or water)." FALSE. Knights do need to eat (not mentioned, but by logic, drink too), as seen in various item descriptions. The rock jelly shield's description says: "Crafted from the most adamant of slimy specimens, it also functions as an emergency source of calories for stranded knights.". According to the descriptions: volcanic salamander armor works as a makeshift stove, jelly gems are eatable, the brute jelly shield tastes like berries and warp dust tastes great in dip. Also, as atrumvindex mentioned: the rocky core's center is eatable. Also, sundries (the furniture item) are rations (or mostly rations), as the description says: "Supply canisters containing everything a Spiral Knight needs to get going in the morning.".

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 07:49

#34

Tiroth

...

@the Core being a power source: Mist energy comes from the Core. This same energy is used to power weapons, armour, elevators, and probably everything else the Knights use. But, while it's tempting to think that we could simply use this leached energy, hoard it for a while, and then use it to power the Skylark, you're forgetting something - the Skylark is a massive ship built to house thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Knights, and it is capable of interstellar travel. Worse, it will need the power to break into orbit, which is no mean feat for a ship of any size. Unless we planned to spend a century or two on Cradle, using mist energy to power the Skylark just wouldn't work; it would be like trying to make an aircraft carrier run off a car battery.

@just make a new ship: See above. Building and powering an interstellar vessel is no mean feat, especially when all your specialist tools for doing so are back home.

@why don't the Knights just call Cradle home: Because the Spiral Knights are knights in the romantic sense, not the historical one - and knights in the stories don't just sit there when they can be doing something more important.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 08:13

#35

Grittle

The knights are never

The knights are never depicted eating or drinking, and there aren't any food stores in Haven, so...

What are sundries for then, It says "Supply canisters containing everything a Spiral Knight needs to get going in the morning."

So Knights do eat, just that we dont see them eat

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 10:36

#36

Canine-Vladmir

im quite enjoying this thread.

please, continue.

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 11:23

#37

Immortous

@Lupine-Vladmir

Agreed. I love watching people make simple things confusing too! =D
But if yall get bored, head over this way.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/69602

Sat, 12/01/2012 - 11:33

#38

Ghret

On the Topic of Currency

I can only surmise that the Strangers or the Gremlins are the ones in charge of minting them. I shall split this post in twain, one half for if Gremlins are the ones in of the Crowns, altera for the Strangers.

Gremlins
The Gremlins have created this as a way to lubricate transactions and overall help the running of the empire.
As for how these are given value? Simple. If King Tinkizar says that one Crown is worth 1 Crown, then that is how much it is worth. Unfortunately, after having used this currency for so long, as well as a trade unit for other races, the Crown has taken a life of its own and underpins the Gremlin Empire; However, Tinkizar still has some control over the Crown - being the only race capable of minting it - and constantly enforces unbelievably draconic measures in order to keep inflation in his grasp (Use your imagination).

Strangers
The Strangers began minting this unit of currency as a way of helping to trade between the various races of the Cradle, backing the currency with their - presumed - mercantile interests.
The main reason to why the inflation remains so low is due to the thinking of the Strangers. Their society is one based around trade. Specifically, how they do it.
"Why do something yourself when you can hire someone else to do it?"
This is the mindset of just about every Stranger. Thankfully this mindset is tempered by an inherent fairness i.e. if a Stranger attempts to monopolizes a certain resource the other Strangers will intervene.

NOTE: I am aware of how flawed this reasoning is, however, it is the only reasoning I've got.

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Story Logic