Spiral Knights - On the subject of strategy and analysis

On the subject of strategy and analysis

2 replies [Last post]

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 10:53

Thardus

Legacy Username

So far the wiki has mostly been simple "This is what is in the game, here is a list of it" sort of content, but I think at some point we're going to want to start adding some analysis into the mix. In particular, I think these topics need addressing;

* Profit and income.
I think we can get a lot of mileage out of analyzing cash earned per floor, because there are some definite patterns to it. Certain floor types are guaranteed more income than others. additionally, it seems like the floors at the beginning of a Tier provide much less cash, while those in the back half provide a huge boost in cash earned per floor.
I also think it would be valuable should analyze how this affects playstyle; including ways to maximize per-run profit when you factor in the cost of purchasing energy with crowns.
Another important factor is analyzing how energy gates affect profit. How much does it "cost" to use one, and how much does one have to earn as a result to make up for it? I know a lot of players are conflicted over the gates that lead to clover boxes. It would, in general, be nice to have a list of what kind of things one can find behind energy gates.

* An in-depth analysis of equipment statistics.
How much does equipment damage scale by floor? Does armor protection scale as well?
How much is each star-type "nerfed" in different tiers? Again, are defenses also nerfed?
What does each status effect resistance do? Can we get approximations as to how much effect each amount of resist has?
What about objective comparisons of weapons? Same person, same levels, different weapons. Run the numbers. There's no reason we can't calculate things like damage per hit or a rough DPS for maxed-out weapons, assuming we find an appropriate "test dummy". At the very least, we should be able to obtain a fairly objective analysis of which weapons do the most damage.
Same for armor; which ones protect you best? Which status resists are 'worth it' the most? etc, etc.

These sorts of things are very important to players' decisions about how to play the game, so I think it's really vital that this stuff gets tested out and set up. People come to the wiki to find these sorts of things out!

Let me know what you think; and feel free to point out things you think should be added to the list.
I'll probably get started on a wiki page for some of these if no one else does in the next few days.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 16:14

Pauling

I'd LOVE to see more damage

I'd LOVE to see more damage numbers and information, but that depends on players first getting together and collecting the raw data. (see my to-do list at http://wiki.spiralknights.com/User:Pauling for some thoughts on this) I don't have time to coordinate such an effort, but if you do, then create a thread and post what you know. Others will do the same, and together the community can create some good strategy guides.

Thu, 05/05/2011 - 18:41

divaliant

Legacy Username

Oh yes! My goodness. There's

Oh yes! My goodness. There's already a bit further down the page about the damage portion.

So far, here are my findings:

Ascended Calibur - Tier 2 Damage
Ascended Calibur - Tier 2 (with Wolver Cap) Damage
Sealed Sword - Tier 2 Damage
Sealed Sword - Tier 2 (with Wolver Cap) Damage

Both weapons are Heat Level 10. Both deal [Normal] damage. Some ??? are simply data I haven't got, either because my party crushed them too quickly, or, when I was soloing, I was too busy saving my life from lazors and bullet hell to take notes.

It's important to note that Menders take more damage than all other monsters at the same Depth. The same is not the case with the Silkwings. I have not been keeping track of the monster's family because I've been dealing only with weapons that deal [Normal] damage. When I get my Avenger / D. Avenger, I will take proper note of that.

Some initial conclusions we can draw:
1. [Damage Bonus: Low] adds roughly 6-8 damages to the first and two swings of the Ascended Calibur, and 8-10 damages to the charge attack.
In other words, [Damage Bonus] is probably not a constant. It scales (although rather poorly) with the sword's damage.
2. A higher tier weapon will deal drastically more damage in its proper tier depth. A weapon with lower tier than the depth, on the contrary, suffers damage penalty.
3. Party size does not affect weapon damage.

Potential caveats (that I can think of for now, at least):
1. The data is taken solely from T2.
2. The data is taken from one gate.

I doubt the pattern will change, but I've heard T3 likened to the Twilight Zone and Quantum Physics, so I can't really tell.

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I've also started taking note of my crown gains. Especially since there have been so many threads that bring up the discussion of Crown gain vs CE cost, I think this will be a great way to put the uncertainty to rest once we have gathered enough data.

I have not gathered enough data so I am reluctant to put it up yet, but the initial patterns, at least for T2, seems to be like this:
For Tier 3 (Depth 9 - Depth 12): Crown gain is around 300-400Cr per Depth
For Tier 4 (Depth 14 - Depth 17): Crown gain is around 1,000Cr per Depth | 3,000Cr for Battle Arenas

I got these from two recorded solo runs. It would be interesting to see how party size plays into Crown gain.

For now, I am keeping track of the Depth and Stage name. It may be interesting later to see if some Stages give out more Crowns than others on the same Depth (except for the obvious Battle Arenas).

This is how I organize my data on Excel
Depth | Level Name (exact full name. for instance: 'Cooling Chamber: Wrench Warfare') | Net Crown Profit (I also have | Total Crown at the beginning of the level | data which I use to formulate my Net Crown Profit)

I think it would be good to use the same format so we can pool our data more easily and sort everything and see the pattern. I would be open to changing mine if anyone has a better idea =).
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These are two very good ideas. I think cold, hard numbers will revolutionize the way we compare and choose weapons (especially for the newbies) and calculate dungeon-crawling profit (perhaps CE cost? I'm rather skeptical on this one). Let's get our minds together somehow and start recruiting people to do our bidding for world domina-- I mean, to gather socially beneficial data for the sake of the future of Spiral Knights community.

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On the subject of strategy and analysis