Spiral Knights - Your Opinion after the weapon balancing.

Your Opinion after the weapon balancing.

15 replies [Last post]

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 06:07

Jace

Legacy Username

Hello, I'd like to know your opinion of the balance update "Update on weapons getting stronger when getting nearer to core."

I for one am not enjoying spiral knights anymore, well thats my opinion, low levels are time consuming already and I'm having deaths in between them.
at depth 9 it takes 5-6 hits to kill a redwood with a khorovod, it really takes out the feeling of having a 4 star weapon, but thats just me, anyway I want to know the opinion of others.

I use to play everyday until i burn all my mist to 0, moor->ember, but now i don't feel like doing that anymore. =o=

sorry, for making it sound more like a rant. D:

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 06:28

Benamas

Legacy Username

to summarize,

"My OP weapon isn't OP anymore"

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:48

Talbain

Legacy Username

@Benamas "So I got a new OP

@Benamas

"So I got a new OP weapon"

Khorovod is out, Vile Strikers and Hunting Blades are in. Go buy one and see for yourself.

The truth is, there was never anything wrong with the Khorovod. All of the other weapons were UNDERwhelming. Further, the monsters needed tweaking. Right now there are too few types to accommodate all of the available weapon types. Add monsters for whom heavy weapons are distinctly preferable, as well as some for light weapons. Leave moderate weapons the healthy medium.

And for god's sake, can we make guns viable again? They're scarcely more than utility anymore (except, I've heard, for the Strike Needle at the moment).

Give us our third weapon slot back (if not our fourth) and put a bomb in it. I'm willing to bet there are new players who don't even know what bombs are like (before they run out of energy and quit forever).

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:17

Evolution

Legacy Username

I love the new (?) knock-over

I love the new (?) knock-over the alchemer mkIII has after 2 hits. Well I hope that is new though, else nvm :p

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:41

Bolgron

I...er...don't like it.

So I have a level ten Brandish currently. That's right, I'm a noob, don't bother commenting saying that.

So today I thought "hey, i'm gonna go back and re-do Haven->Moorcroft for fun!" And it wasn't fun. At all.

On depth one, it was taking three hits to kill things with the sword, which was ok.

BUT my firotech alchemer [MK II] was useless. Completely. Guns need to be weapons again; before the rebalancing that happened a few days after my starting here. Back then, you could use your gun the whole way thru a floor; you could use your sword too! But now it's sword or nothing. It's terrible.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 13:53

Evolution

Legacy Username

But you still can use your

But you still can use your weapon the whole way through, it'll just take more time? You get plenty of safety in return for it, don't forget that. Risk vs reward!

Just a question, was the trip not fun at all just because of the gun-issue? :P

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:02

Magnonite

I just loved the new release,

I just loved the new release, the DEV's nailed it!
Spiral Knights is getting close to the perfect formula.

Great energy system, great money drop system, great craft system etc etc

Great job Devs, great job.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:07

Bolgron

@Evolution

Pretty much, yeah. I utilise my gun AND sword during the levels. Not being able to use my gun made the whole thing suck. It took more hits with a MKII alchemer on a Lumber [depth 1] than it did before the last release with a level 8 level 1 alchemer on depth 12-ish lumber/redwoods.

So it wasnt fun in the slightest.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:19

Pauling

Guns and ardor

I need to try last night's changes, but as yet, I'm a big fan of the changes made to guns a few weeks back. As much as I might grouse about other aspects of the release- like invincible super-healing gremlin mobs or unusable bombs- the gun changes were absolutely the right call.

Each gun now has a much more clearly defined support role, and the related improvements made to swords have made the game more about engaging in the fight, rather than standing at a distance and repeatedly tapping the "z" key. Likewise, the upgrade paths for guns represent some of the clearest and best incentives to craft out of all the recipes I know. Paying 200 energy for armor gets me an extra HP and incrementally better protection (meh), whereas gun upgrades add abilities like bouncing bullets, status effects, or bonus damage against certain monsters. This is really well done: each weapon in the upgrade chain is distinctly valuable in itself, and yet spending the energy to craft the next item is also well worth it.

I also like the fact that guns are the primary vehicle for delivering certain damage types (elemental, piercing, and soon, shadow)... this leaves them with an important niche (especially when adventuring in parties) without making safe sniping a substitute for gameplay.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 14:25

Chronus

I for one, think the update was more on the favorable side.

I just loved the new release, the DEV's nailed it!
Spiral Knights is getting close to the perfect formula.
Great energy system, great money drop system, great craft system etc etc
Great job Devs, great job.

- dantezinn

If only the SK community was for like this haha (although I have a feeling this is sarcasm). Maybe the Devs would have motivation to do stuff, rather than having to anticipate all the grunts and groans. :P

-pats Devs on the back-

I for one, think the update was more on the favorable side. As it has been said previously, I actually have use for multiple weapons now. I use my sword for taking out 3 or less monsters, usually, or when they are isolated, and my gun for larger mobs (split bullets and fire status handles this well).

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:05

#10

Evolution

Legacy Username

I find the update quite

I find the update quite successful aswell. I like how they tweaked the weapons, and I love how they tweaked the Gremlins. They are still quite a challenge, but I really enjoyed doing a deconstructionzone below Emberlight!

The only down-part in my opinion is the armor bit. But that's for another thread.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 15:08

#11

Boswick

Developer

Handguns.

I glanced over the game data a bit and it looks like alchemers specifically had their damage knocked down. However, they still do elemental damage and should be useful against enemies with weak elemental defense, and they can still inflict status conditions.

Bear in mind that the alchemers were never intended to be the best all-around gun type in the game. I suggest you guys experiment with other handguns. The blaster series, for instance, is what we use as sort of the "baseline" all-around handgun, so if it feels underpowered, then that would be more convincing evidence of a problem with handguns in general.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:12

#12

Pauling

Cory: I'm all for testing

Cory: I'm all for testing more guns, but I really can't afford to at the going rate of 10-30k crowns per item. For now, I'll keep crafting the "base" models, so as to be ready for when the upgrade recipes come out. :)

(And, really- gremlins are fun again? Whoopee!)

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 16:21

#13

Sarcusa

At the moment, Vile Strikers

At the moment, Vile Strikers and Hunting Blades obviously need to be nerfed, badly (The charge skill instantly kills almost everything). Otherwise I think the game is rather good this way, especially with the possibility of interrupting with most attacks so we're not always running all the time. With the way it is, the game is much much more easier to play yet it's a lot less tiring and frustrating as enemies don't take as long to be killed and everyone doesn't die all the time (Though it's still possible, we are under emberlight afterall, it's supposed to be hard). Now we just need bosses, a lot more bosses so we have something that was just as challenging before the buff (You know, when people died constantly =P).

I still think khorovods need a buff considering how much safer and faster the other weapons are. Also I love the damage on the Needle Shot but please make the accuracy back to what it was before, it's absolutely horrible to use now cause it doesn't shoot where I click most of the time which is extremely annoying and makes me seriously not want to use the gun at all even though I'm a gun fan. If the gun is going to be inaccurate in some way, it should at least spray the bullets much like the charge move in many directions instead of shooting all bullets in one or two very wrong directions, resulting in no damage for 10 seconds =/ There's no point in being close up as that's even more dangerous than using a sword (So I'd just use a sword anyways) and the whole point in a gun is to shoot from a distance.

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 19:16

#14

Pupu

Legacy Username

Me like

I think most enemies got way easier to kill after this patch. Which is good, since the battles before were quite tedious at times.
But they also do a lot of damage, so if you get confident you die.
I really like it. Gremlins are no longer OP!

Wed, 12/08/2010 - 23:42

#15

BehindCurtai

Legacy Username

> Bear in mind that the

> Bear in mind that the alchemers were never intended to be the best all-around gun type in the game. I suggest you guys experiment with other handguns. The blaster series, for instance, is what we use as sort of the "baseline" all-around handgun, so if it feels underpowered, then that would be more convincing evidence of a problem with handguns in general.

Alright. The blaster is horrifically underpowered.

It seems that the blaster (2 star) and the firotech alchemer (2 star) have the same range. But if I charge my blaster, my range decreases -- I'm forced back by recoil (which makes no sense from a physics standpoint) BEFORE my shot fires; this reduces my range.

But the Alchemer starts with that same shortness, and then gets a distance bonus.

Range is everything in too many rooms. This lets the Alchemer hit and do damage where the blaster is doing zero.

===

In general: I really dislike the idea that a two star, 10 heat shield, on depth 2 in firefly, is broken in one hit from the tree golems in Jelly Farm. One hit to break. Depth 2. 2 stars, fully hot.

===

What is the "baseline sword" supposed to be?
If our weapons are supposed to upgrade, then why aren't the recipes in Haven like the weapons?

I have yet to see a 3 star upgrade recipe from any two-star weapon. Before the "gremlin gizmo", I saw two star upgrades from two-star items :-).

===
> I glanced over the game data a bit and it looks like alchemers specifically had their damage knocked down. However, they still do elemental damage and should be useful against enemies with weak elemental defense, and they can still inflict status conditions.

UNLESS YOU BUY A WEAPON SLOT, YOU ARE FORCED TO GO FOR THE SPECIALS

If you do not buy a weapon slot, then your choice is either:
1. A relatively weak support weapon that seems to not be useful for much of a fight if the focus is on swords, OR
2. An even weaker weapon with status effects that are significant.

What would you rather have? A weapon that does 10% damage, gets two hits, and then you have to change weapons as the enemy charges you; or, a weapon that does 9% damage, gets two hits, inflicts fire or curse or poison, which will do more damage or prevent healing (gremlins, wings, etc), for a tiny reduction in direct damage and a significant increase in bonuses?

And a weapon that inflicts poison, with healers around? Sadly, I haven't seen one. They do exist, right? The "Brain-stump alchemer" (description: The bullets fired from this gun might be poisonous. Is your brain better able to determine which one is poisoned than a Sicilian? :-)

(Is "Princess Bride" safe to reference over here?)

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Your Opinion after the weapon balancing.