Spiral Knights - Mid-Heavy Sword; Indomitable Pressurizer

Mid-Heavy Sword; Indomitable Pressurizer

21 replies [Last post]

Sat, 12/15/2012 - 17:07

Laraso

So, one day while I was busy planning what I was going to craft next, I started thinking of weapons that I'd love to use if they existed; I started writing my ideas down until eventually I found myself here, sharing my idea with the forums.

This weapon is a mid-heavy sword; by that, I mean it's about the size of a Troika, with the same swing arc as a Troika, but a slightly faster attack speed (probably closest to the rocket hammer's swing speed), and a three hit combo much like the Calibur. The attack range would be about 5/7ths of a Troika's attack range. It's a split normal/pierce damage sword, with a charge attack meant to compliment the sword's normal attacks.

Basically, how the charge works is you take one step forward, then stab the spike (located in the center of the sword) into the ground, which is then followed by a sort of earthquake/pulse that damages enemies and knocks them away with a good chance of causing weak stun. The charge attack has three distinct areas of damage, and an enemy is only able to be hit by one section of the charge; you cannot overlap the areas to get bonus damage.

The three attack areas are:
- The "Epicenter"; the area directly around the sword. This area is about the same size as the initial blast radius (the visible white ring before detonation) of Radiant Sun Shards. This area deals the most damage.
- The "Interior"; the area directly around the epicenter. This area is about the same size as the initial blast radius of a Proto Bomb. This area deals 2/3 the damage of the epicenter.
- The "Exterior"; the area directly around the interior. This area is about the same as the haze radius of a 4* Haze Bomb. This area deals 1/3 the damage of the epicenter.

Knockback for each damage area is about the same as a Proto Bomb, and charging the attack would slow you down to the equivalent of Movement Speed Decrease Medium (the same as wearing a full set of Ancient Plate Mail).

To prevent the charge attack from being abused / used as a bomb, there would be about a 1.3 second ending lag period after the attack where you are unable to do anything, like other charge attacks.

Damage Tables (hopefully this is reasonable):

Heat Level 10 Normal Hit on neutral = 236
Heat Level 10 Final Hit on neutral = 281
Heat Level 10 Charge Epicenter on neutral = 843
Heat Level 10 Charge Interior on neutral = 562
Heat Level 10 Charge Exterior on neutral = 281

Heat Level 10 Normal Hit on beasts/fiends = 279
Heat Level 10 final hit on beasts/fiends = 342
Heat Level 10 Charge Epicenter on beasts/fiends = 1026
Heat Level 10 Charge Interior on beasts/fiends = 684
Heat Level 10 Charge Exterior on beasts/fiends = 342

Heat Level 10 Normal Hit on jelly/construct = 189
Heat Level 10 Final Hit on jelly/construct = 231
Heat Level 10 Charge Epicenter on jelly/construct = 693
Heat Level 10 Charge Interior on jelly/construct = 462
Heat Level 10 Charge Exterior on jelly/construct = 231

Concept Art: (I'm a terrible artist, but it's better than nothing)
http://i.imgur.com/aVT7d.png

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 00:13

Phaseburst

Hmm

I would've gone with the Rapid Fire Shotgun Idea ......

This Idea is great, but the epicenter/interior/exterior idea seems a bit too complicated and spin off from the other weapons

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 00:56

Severage

...

Actually, as complicated as it sounds, I love the epicenter/interior/exterior mechanic. This way in LD when someone baareeellyyy scathes you, you don't get one-hit K.O'd.

I wouldn't bother putting real damage numbers on there, that's mostly up to OOO. It seems pretty fair what you did put though, the final hit on neutral seems balanced, the first hit seems a bit strong as it's almost the same as Gran Faust's. What percentages are you using in comparison to other weapons for it? I'm assuming of course that all of those numbers are Stratum 6.

Also, you should make 2* or 3*~5*, not just 5*. It's great to know what the 5* is like, but how would it compare to lesser levels?

@Toaster-Overload:

Rapid Fire Shotgun you say?

~Sev

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 08:49

Laraso

@Severage

The epicenter mechanic is not complicated; it only sounds complicated. To the average player, it would be fairly intuitive to realize that the closer you are the more damage you're going to do.

I put those damage numbers up there because I had written them down when I was brainstorming it, and decided to share it along with the post. I'm not really using any percentages or hard numbers, I wrote those damage numbers down based upon my experience in the game and what I felt would be balanced. I did, however, use the Sudaruska as a model for how much damage the charge attack should do. I wanted it to be slightly weaker than the Sudaruska's charge, since it would be safer to use and would cause 360 knockback, not just forward knockback.

I already know what the 3* and 4* versions of the weapon would be like, but I can't think of a good design for them and I was having trouble developing a balanced damage table for them, since it's been so long since I was T2, I've sort of forgotten what is considered balanced in T2. If you're sure I don't need the damage numbers, then I can just tell you what they'd be like:

3* - Everything is the same (except damage obviously); charge attack only has the epicenter, and lacks the interior and exterior.
4* - Everything is the same (except damage obviously); charge attack has both the epicenter and the interior, but it lacks the exterior.

I can't think of what they would look like though. That poor excuse of concept art I posted for the 5* version is about as detailed as I can get. Maybe it would be like the Troika line, where each version of the sword never changes proportions, but simply gets a texture swap.

EDIT:

Also, yes, all of those damage numbers are relevant if using the weapon at heat level 10 in stratum 6.

I made the normal hit do a hefty amount of damage because I was afraid that the charge might get abused in some way. So, I made it so that a full combo would do a little less than 150 damage compared to the epicenter of the charge attack. That way, the sword would do more DPS against a single target with its normal attacks, but against groups the charge attack would be preferable. Of course, if that isn't balanced, then it should be lowered.

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 14:31

Severage

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I didn't mean complicated to humans. It seems obvious to us. I meant complicated to program.

3*/4* sounds about right...only difference is damage and charge. Seems to me the obvious solution as far as concept art would be to draw them smaller and perhaps less ornate - since they have a smaller damage range, the weapon would have to be smaller. Also, maybe less of that outer-sword looking thing you drew. 'Course - we wouldn't want it looking like a flourish...

I could attempt to sketch something up for you if you wanted. I'm no artist, but most the people who are are already too busy to volunteer their services for other suggestions. Just if you wanted me to.

Honestly I'm thinking the one you drew could be 4* or 3*, while 5* would look more like a trident or something with multiple blades due to its range factor. Just a thought.

I'm not a wiki editor or genius on balance numbers, that was just an observation. I wouldn't be able to tell you one way or another without testing the DPS myself.

~Sev

Sun, 12/16/2012 - 22:53

Laraso

@Severage

If you could sketch that up, I'd really appreciate it!

That "outer-sword looking thing" was supposed to be the spike that is thrusted into the ground for the charge attack. The blades on the sides are supposed to be for the normal hits. After looking at what I drew, I personally found it looked more like a 5* brandish. I'd have said the spike would be retracted, and only extends for the charge, but I haven't seen a single weapon in the game that has any moving parts on it at all, so I assumed it was something the game engine was not equipped to do.

If you can come up with something else than that spike for the charge attack, that'd be great! A trident could work, but I can't imagine how it would look anything less than awkward when using normal attacks.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:31

Severage

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True, true...

I'm trying to think up ways to not make it look like the child of a flourish and a brandish...I didn't actually realize those things on the sides were blades. Wups.

Anything with the blades on the side jutting more outward would be really weird to use and would probably hit your own character while he's attacking...but anything else looks too much like a Brandish. Hmmmmm...

I think first off those side-blades need to be more pointy or spiky. At the moment they don't look very "piercing", which is why I didn't realize they were blades. Also, if the middle piercing blade were out the whole time, or even if the other blades were sharper and more pointy, a Calibur animation would be counter-intuitive. If you're using a piercing poky sticky thing, you won't be slashing, you'll be stabbing (I know, FF slashes).

Then again, if only the sides of the blade are really sharp, not the tips, then that could work fine...they'd just have to be um, really sharp to be piercing...like a club or something lol.

I really dunnae. That'll be something to sleep on lol.

~Sev

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:48

Laraso

@Severage

That's my art for you; confusing and uninspired. :P

I thought of giving the blades serrated edges, but then I got visual images of the striker line and steered clear of it. Now that I think about it, serrated edges would probably be best for the side blades.

The ends aren't supposed to be pointy, just the sides.

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 00:52

Laraso

Introducing...

Laraso, the double-post extraordinaire!

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 01:16

Severage

@Laraso:

Ahh serrated...that might work. Then we can name the 3* one Bonesaw, then Pressurizer, then Indomitable Pressurizer.

Also, they don't have to be as scarcely serrated as Strikers. Those things are hardly serrated, they have 3 notches in 'em. They're more like jagged.

That still leaves the issue that he'll be using the middle-blade as a weapon, not just a charge attack. Maybe decrease the size of the middle blade to match the sword, giving it a pokey center and serrated outside of the same length, and sticking like half the sword into the ground (Including side-blades)?

So, what material are the sides made of? The middle looks like a steel-y blade, what are the sides? They're blue, so unless they're blue (really blue) steel, they're somethin' else. They look like crystals of some sort to me.

Maybe I'll just derp up some rough concepts and you can tell me what looks best, or best fits your pictured dream weapon, lol.

~Sev

Mon, 12/17/2012 - 01:38

#10

Laraso

@Severage

Well, I chose blue just-cause'.

I honestly never thought about the side blades also going into the ground... /derp
Yeah, a spike the same length as the blades would be best. It doesn't need to stick out.

As for material, crystals might work, but I think steel would be best. It doesn't have to be as blue as the one I drew, or even blue at all.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 03:16

#11

Severage

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Eh, well...I don't know how good it will look all one solid color. Maybe the 3* version, but the 5* should look cooler.

I'll work on it 'soon as I get the chance.

~Sev

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 23:03

#12

Laraso

I won't lie, I laughed.

I think the concept is good, but I don't think there should be serrations on the inside. It wouldn't make much sense to serrate the side of the blade that's never going to hit anything.

The 3* one looks a little odd though, it just doesn't seem quite right; I think it's how small those blades on the sides are.

Also, I think the blade in the middle should be a bit thinner than the ones on the sides, not the same size.

EDIT: I thought of something that might look better than the direction we've been taking, but I'll post it later as it's 4:00 AM here at the moment.

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 03:16

#13

Severage

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Well, the purpose in the serrations on the inside is when you stab someone. Makes it easier to stab.

I didn't really want to make the 3* one look large, since it is 3*. I was trying to illustrate the lack of exterior/interior charges, by adjusting the size of the blades on the side.

Anyway - removing the links now to save myself from embarrassment. I have a reputation (I think) to uphold, you know.

Looking forward to see whatcha got.

~Sev

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 12:13

#14

Aureate

Processing Thoughts of You Always

Interesting weapon concept. I like it; its charge attack is pretty novel, and I can think of a few uses for it... although trying to combine it with a vortex might be rather masochistic. Could always do with a new variant of piercing swords other than the plain old toothpick attack pattern. +1

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 13:19

#15

Klipik

Can we do the "sword does less damage the further away you get" thing for EVERY SWORD?

Tue, 12/18/2012 - 16:39

#16

Severage

@Klipik:

I was thinking the same thing.

Those times when your ping is crappy and a Gran Faust hits you with a whole square in between the tip of the blade and your head...would be nice.

~Sev

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 03:32

#17

Laraso

Oh noes...

I completely forgot to get that concept made today. I'll do it tomorrow for sure!

/fail

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 13:12

#18

Laraso

Finished! Somewhat...

I was too lazy to make a new picture so I tore apart my first one and reassembled it in the manner closest to what I was imagining.

http://i.imgur.com/LmMXd.png

Now, obviously it wouldn't look like that. Basically, it's sort of the same shape as a bardiche.

Wed, 12/19/2012 - 14:34

#19

Severage

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I look up "bardiche" and get a bunch of pictures of anime women.

What a weeaboo world we live in.

Anyway, you'd have to only swing from one direction for that to work. Currently, all our weapons have two-sides that I can think of, other than the Striker lines....and you really don't want your weapon acting like a Striker...

~Sev

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 01:09

#20

Hexzyle

Lol Lyrical Nanoha. Probably

Lol Lyrical Nanoha.

Probably because it's a not very known about weapon, and that was a popular place where people learnt about it.

I personally discovered the weapon in Mount&Blade, the only Medievil RPG game that is actually semi-accurate to historical items. :3

Thu, 12/20/2012 - 09:05

#21

Severage

@Hex:

Whatevah.

Wee-aaahhh-boooo world.

~Sev

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Mid-Heavy Sword; Indomitable Pressurizer