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Question about the swarm

26 replies [Last post]
Tue, 12/25/2012 - 07:51
Hawxindanite's picture
Hawxindanite

In the module you get at the core it gives a description of a darkness that attacks Alpha squad before they enter the core.

Dosen't that fit the Charactaristics of the swarm?

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:15
#1
Juances's picture
Juances

Obligatory meme image

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 08:51
#2
Rabeet-Ahsan's picture
Rabeet-Ahsan
The Swarm is described as a

The Swarm is described as a dark entity which was maybe trapped in the core but some of it stayed out and is known as The Shadow Lairs.As it is know that the Alpha squad entered the core they might have been consumed by the The true Swarm trapped in the core.
Well thats my theory.
EDIT
King Tinkizar might be the one to trap the Swarm in the core.As Spiral HQ are trying to open the core and risk releasing the swarm,this might explain the hostility of gremlins towards Spiral Knights as the gremlins might be trying to protect the core from being opened again.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 09:40
#3
Aumir's picture
Aumir
^This

Either you believe the Core that "the Swarm is its enemy" or not, but if the Swarm was such a menace Vaelyn and the people camping in the Core would be gone by now. Not to mention it would have extended its reach far from a "hole in the wall in the middle of Tier 3". It doesn't help that Shadow Lairs are "alternate reality" dungeons.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 14:18
#4
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

According to the Asian server page, the Skylark crashlanded because it was attacked by an "unknown entity" while in orbit of Cradle. My theory is that the Architect created the Swarm as some sort of Nano colony to do some jobs like cleaning or repairing Clockworks (so the Gremlins don't have to work anymore). But the Swarm turned against him and started infecting everything.

Once the Swarm got control of a good portion of Clockworks, they plotted to get out and infect other worlds. Then the Skylarks appeared on their radar and you can guess the rest.

i.e. if Skylarks got repaired and left Cradle, it would take the Swarm with them. So the Swarm could be using the Alpha Squadron as "bait" to lead the Spiral Order into the Core to get the energy to activate Skylark, so the Swarm can get a free ride to a new world.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 13:34
#5
Vtipoman's picture
Vtipoman
He must be destroyed!

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8272/hemustbedestroyed.png

(with power of friendship)

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 14:04
#6
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
:-)

The skylark should have done this the first moment they got
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzwsLO8OUegGIo_Lc2...

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:13
#7
Hawxindanite's picture
Hawxindanite
Okay then

Wouldn't that mean that when OOO "opens the core" we would have to fight the swarm?

Also read the Echo stone you read after finishing UFSC. It may shed some light on this topic.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:17
#8
Thunderbog's picture
Thunderbog

PLOT TWISTED

THREE RINGS IS TRYING TO PROTECT US

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 20:47
#9
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

Don't be surprised if we end up fighting the Alpha Squadron when the Core opens. Once we defeat them we realize it's all a plot and the Skylark gets ambushed.

Tue, 12/25/2012 - 21:10
#10
Softhead's picture
Softhead
^

I don't really count the Asian variant.

My thought was more of the planet was being scanned, and the core enity, or maybe the swarm, crashed their ship via destroying the Tearium core, recruiting them into the struggles of Cradle.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 10:46
#11
Knight-Solaire's picture
Knight-Solaire
Praise the sun!

I was always under the impression that Cradle was built as a prison. The impenetrable shell was built around the core to protect whatever is inside*, and when the swarm came to attack it the gremlins built the different floors around it to keep it trapped. They constantly shift and rotate to ensure that the Swarm never finds its way out.

*I also believe that Sanctuary is inside the core itself. If you'll remember the core opened to save Alpha Squad in a situation very similar to the Unknown Passage, and the inside of the core is described as a bright white light. You escape the Unknown Passage into a similar bright white room which seems to be sentient and seems to save you on purpose. The only flaw in this theory is that it offers no explanation of what happened to the Alpha Squad; you are dropped at the core terminal when you leave, but perhaps the Alpha Squad went further into the core or was ejected into an unexplored area of the Clockworks.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 11:04
#12
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Actually

As Shadow Lairs are alternate realities, Unknown Passage could be interpreted as a memory of when the Alpha Squad "escaped" into the Core. Now, that the Sanctuary is "real", that is another different issue... you know how carnivorous plants allure preys inside right?

Moreso that the further you go into Shadow Lairs, the worse the rewards are.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 12:08
#13
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

SL is not alternate realities. They are real just like any Clockwork levels. Except that the programming logic was corrupted and so it became imbalanced (that applies to the rewards also). Remember Cradle reconfigure itself? There should be a control system somewhere, right? Somehow the Swarm, originally benign, got out and turned against their creator (the Architect). They infected part of that control system to create dangerous levels that they use as both defense system and as traps for their preys.

SL connects to Sanctuary because it is what that stopped the Swarm's infection. The Unknown Passage is where the Cradle control system fights off the Swarm's infection. That's why when you compare Unknown Passage to SL levels, the SL levels are clearly more stable and don't collapse like Unknown Passage.

The Cradle control system lies inside the Core. Therefore the Sanctuary is inside the Core and probably serves like a Tier 1 weapon locker for the Core's guardian. When you exit Sanctuary, you are returned back to the entrance of the Core so you can fight off the Swarms.

I think the word "Swarm" is a big give away of what they are. They are nano machine colonies that either went out of control (hinting at a new enemy => DLC) or they gained a Swarm mind of its own and rebelled against the Architect.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 12:24
#14
Aumir's picture
Aumir
So...

@Eltia: Then how do you explain that there are two Vanadukes, the real and the SL one, and two Ironclaw Munition Factories WITH the Roarmulus Project, which was created near the surface to attack Haven? Also, there are Swarm Seeds in the boss encounters, so they do have a hand in there in those alternate realities.

Also, once you enter Shadow Lair levels, the UI gets the Swarm red color palette and depth is at "???" - the only exception being Crimson Hammer to this.

And yeah the Swarm "exists", and is the Core itself most likely. Shadow Lairs blame Trikinzar as the Swarm cause and tell us not to open the Core yet - to not see the cruel reality - because the Gremlins, which don't want us to open the Core, look like they were fooled themselves before, as they aren't original residents in Cradle too, and we are technologically superior to them, which make us fit for new Architects.

And sorry, where does it say that the Cradle control system resides in the Core? Wouldn't it make much more sense to be at Great Colony, where Gremlins control everything? And actually, if when exiting the Sanctuary you are left in the deepest part of the planet instead of in Haven... that actually doesn't defend at all the Core being good. Also Vaelyn must be very good exterminating this supposedly real inmortal enemy then, resisting so much.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 12:58
#15
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

Because Vanaduke is trapped as a kind of program inside the Cradle's control system. It gets reconstructed every time FSC is generated inside Clockworks. The Duke, Almirian and the countries they were at war with, were both long gone according to lore. i.e. they killed off each other, leading to an opportunity for Gremlin's colonization.

The indicator anomaly was due to Swarm interference. As you can see when you reach Unknown Passage, the interference was strongest because the Swarm was at war directly with the Cradle's control system. Of course there are Swarm Seeds inside SL, because that's what infected part of the Cradle's control system in the first place. And they couldn't be eradicated by brute force, as brute force only suppress them. You need a strong energy source (like the Core) to cleanse them.

As for the messages left behind in Sanctuary, it really depends on who left them there. My theory is that they are holographic recordings left behind by the Cradle's control system. That's why the messages talked about the Architect and the Swarm in third person, and it blames the Architect as the cause of the Swarm (which he is because he engineered the Swarm).

The Gremlins were colonists, as the lore tells us they aren't residents of the Cradle. So it's safe to assume the Architect together with the Gremlins were sent from their home world to Cradle for colonization. Then one day, the Architect got lazy and thought "you know what, let's create these nano machines do the works of us while we go pet those cute Snipes!" But little does he realize a collective mind emerges from the nano machines and it turns against him.

The Swarm got out, infected everything (including the Architect, leading to his madness), the Architect with his last sanity put himself into stasis, left warnings behind and let the Cradle's control system took over. The Skylark caught the signal ("DO NOT APPROACH, I REPEAT, DO NOT APPROACH"), got attacked by Swarm in orbit, crashlanded on Cradle and leads to the beginning of Spiral Knights.

The dialect ship in Ghost in the Machine probably caught the same signal also but them being a smaller ship, was less fortunate than the Skylark.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:19
#16
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

Summary of what I think is going on:

  • Gremlins are colonists. They arrive at Cradle for resources (energy and minerals);
  • Clockworks are designed to protect the Core from other parties interested in the resources. e.g. Space pirates;
  • there is a Cradle control system (like GLADOS in Portal) to control the Clockworks;
  • the Architect is responsible for creation of Clockworks, the shell that protect the Core and the Swarm;
  • the Swarm are nano machines that turned against its master.
  • the Architect was infected and went into stasis (the slumber and dreams), leaving the Cradle's control system in charge;
  • Sanctuary is part of the Core;
  • Skylarks crashlanded because of a Swarm's attack. The Swarm saw this as an opportunity to open gateway to new worlds for infestation;
  • Alpha Squadron was used as bait by the Swarm to have the Spiral Order unlocks the Core for them.

Where the plots could go next:

  • Gremlin's home world sent an expedition force to investigate the colonists on Cradle. They think the Spiral Order are trespassers and they declare war on the Order;
  • A mapping of the Core is done, realizing there are different levels that need to be unlocked. Alpha Squadron is believed to be at the center;
  • Origin of Strangers revealed. Turns out they are an advanced, space faring race that specializes in trading;
  • Awakening the Architect and making a choice: use the energy of the Core to save the Gremlins from the Swarm or take the energy to power up the Skylark. Very likely to be the former, we are going to be playing on the Cradle for a little longer. :)
Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:19
#17
Juances's picture
Juances

So you're saying the core is like a living battery and cradle was built so space pirates don't drain it.
The swarm are gremlin nanomachines that became self aware skynet-sytle and want to use our ship to escape.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:25
#18
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

The Core is probably a close to infinite power source (and that's why it is being sought after by the Gremlins and they went full length to build Clockworks on top of it to protect it). They can add a plot twist here that the reason the Core has this unique property because it has a being from another dimension trapped inside it. So the Core has a mind of its own. The Clockworks also has a mind of its own (think Artificial Intelligence) but it's created by the Architect.

Swarm is basically Zerg meets Skynet. When the Swarm has become self aware, it realizes the planet it is on is a prison and so naturally, like any living things, they want to get out.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:26
#19
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Wat

I think you are reaching too far, I mean, I did too when I made my theory pro-Core months (a year?) ago, but I didn't think on the whole "illusion" possibility which other people suggested, and again, about the two Vanadukes: how they can be two of them. And I don't mean "reconstruct him". In Arcade, there is in the same floor to the "Shadow Lair passages" a way to go to fight Vanaduke if you go to his gate. Vanaduke is there, down there, if you got far reaching binoculars you may see him down there waiting in his throne straight on in a path far away. And then, you can go another way going through unknown, mysterious undocummented ways in the Cradle rotation to ANOTHER Vanaduke. Vanaduke being a UNIQUE being made due to Vog's curse. There can't be TWO Vanadukes at the same time, same as the Roarmulus Project - you could do another factory, but again wouldn't make sense due to its "location ready to take on Haven when ready".

The messages are confirmed to be recorded by the entity which resides in the Core - "it was made to protect me". Now, what it says may be true or not... and I totally think it is double-crossing us now. Also, if it was made to protect the entity, and you say that the Architect created the Swarm, the Core was made then from night to day once the Swarm "got mad"? I think not. According to the entity, the Swarm and the entity existed since ancient times and the Architect made the Core structure to not let the Swarm get in. Which means... the ancient tribes fought there the Swarm along with the Gremlin colonists while the Architect made the Core, and shut there the entity instead of the Swarm which would actually pay off...? And Cradle isn't infected 100% with Swarm already because...?

The Core is a sealed evil in a can, and it made us crash and is fooling around with us to make us his/her puppets. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Strangers knew more than we know. The Core may not have an evil look but it is really powerful, and once we get "rid" of the Gremlins it will open up, welcome us, go with us back to our planet... and then all hell will break loose. And we will be its obedient army and expand its reach with our technology.

Also, Ghosts in the Machine lore is your typical Matrix/Ghost in the Shell (omgname) lore and it doesn't have anything to do with the Swarm.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:29
#20
Leafblader's picture
Leafblader
moo.

Just to clear this up gremlins and the swarm are not allies.
There are gremlin corpses in the unknown passage.
I think Darkfire vanaduck is just the same lord vanaduck infected by the swarm.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:36
#21
Aumir's picture
Aumir
^

Which again, would mean there would be two Vanadukes at the same time in two different places.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:38
#22
Juances's picture
Juances

I do beleive that the swarm wasn't as evil as it is now and that it may be an experiment gonne wrong
I just don't think it's gremlin nanomachines.

I want to believe the core is a natural entity made of energy -near godlike but not a god- and they experimented with it to reach "ascension"

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 13:39
#23
Eltia's picture
Eltia
Cooperstown, ND

Being inside Core = Architect in stasis. Why? Because he was infected and became delusional. But he still hold the key to unlock the Core because he is the Architect after all.

It's very simple actually. Because those messages were meant to be ambiguous. So we think there is "someone" inside the Core for the Clockworks to protect. OK, but who is this someone that is worth so much effort to protect? The Architect, but only if he holds the key to something even more valuable.

If this is a simple mining colony, it's not worth the effort to put a self reconfigurating fortress on top of it. That's why it has to do with energy, and probably an infinite source.

What I believe throw people off here is that the messages were ambiguous enough to hide the most important question: why the Clockworks was here in the first place. It's artificial and it's meant to protect something valuable enough to worth the effort. So the most likely logical explanation is that the Core has a (close to) infinite energy source that the Gremlins can harvest for eons.

Don't get fooled by those messages in SL. They are ambiguous enough to fit into many interpretation. Focus on the only question that matters: what exactly is the Clockworks designed to protect? If we know what it is to protect, then we know who will be interested in it.

I believe the Swarm is a very minor thing. To me it fits into the description of an experiment with good intention but goes horribly wrong.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 14:02
#24
Boom-Owned's picture
Boom-Owned
Maybe...

the Gremlins colonized cradle and kinda forced the strangers froms their home. They built the core, and the clockworks to protect it. The Gremlins also built the swarm to protect the core also, but the swarm got jealous and tried to infect everything it could but it couldn't escape the clockworks and they can't infect the core because of it's massive energy source.

Wed, 12/26/2012 - 22:25
#25
Milkman's picture
Milkman
Aumir, how can we kill

Aumir, how can we kill vanaduke, twins, snarbolax so many times??

I think you're being too nitty gritty about it. There will always be such plot fallacies in an MMO game. Either you go down normally. Or if you go down a different way, it's been infected by the swarm.

Thu, 12/27/2012 - 08:11
#26
Aumir's picture
Aumir
Again

It isn't about remaking bosses, it isn't about "stopping Roarmulus Project" countless times, it is having two Vanadukes at the same time in the "actual timeline" - Mission Mode being the "what we did until this point". Also Snarbolax and Royal Jelly is just a species, we can kill them countless times - see the actual pair in GW SLair - and their places are just habitats. IMF and FSC are unique places, and they exist already in the Clockworks.

I think it is much more a fallacy the making out of the blue a "Cradle control" being other than the Architect/Gremlins and negating that the messages are from the Core entity.

Btw, could Vaelyn and co be already infected and we just not know about it? That at least would defend the pro-"actual Shadow Lair Swarm is real" arguments.

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