Spiral Knights - All of your valuable items could soon be worthless! ::tags::[Winterfest][Crown of Winter][Snowfall Aura][items][rare]::tags::

All of your valuable items could soon be worthless! ::tags::[Winterfest][Crown of Winter][Snowfall Aura][items][rare]::tags::

31 replies [Last post]

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:23

Secure

Greetings to anyone who is reading this,

I've created this topic due to a question that I have proposed. Before this years "winterfest", the Crown of Winter and Snowfall Aura, had an exceedingly higher value and were considered to be extremely rare. After the update's release day and them some, the Crown of Winter and Snowfall Aura certainly dropped in their value as it became more obtainable to players. Whether this is good or bad for you, completely depends on if you had any of these items or not before the update.

It is not really terrible nor is it great that this has happened seeing as it was only with two items. In fact, for myself the update benefited me, as I did not have either of these items before which I did want and got them for a much more affordable price than what I would have had to pay prior to the update. However I believe this brings up quite a controversy whether most players realize it or not, I am most certainly unaware, which is actually why I am creating this thread; to get your opinions.

I think this is a controversy because, both of these items before the "winterfest" update I believe were both rare promo items, which I also believe that were said to obtainable only through the valid date of the promo, which lasted for a certain numbers of days, ect... However with the winterfest update that statement has now proven to be untrue. Think about this, in the days while that old promo was lasting, many people probably bought CE for the sole purpose of the possibility that they could get one of these "rare" promo items. Which with the winterfest update, two of the rare promo items are NOT rare or half as valuable anymore.

If the devs and admins do and suggest what they did with the Crown of Winter and Snowfall Aura, bring "rare promo items" back and use them in another promo/event. What's to stop them from doing this with any of the "rare promo items", what items or promo items are actually rare? For all we know when we wake up the next morning and extremely rare items, like black and white cheapu's and tabbards, hacked aura's, or crowns of summer, some of the most valuable and sought-after items could be worthless! I don't know what all of you think, but this makes me feel very insecure about trying to get "rare" or "promo only items" anymore. What if they do the same thing next year in the winterfest event, and Crown of Winters become even more worthless?

All of your valuable items are at stake here! What once was worth it's weight in gold could be soon be traded with the dust and dirt by your shoes and the pennies you find on the ground! I have no idea if this has been brought up before, or how many people have realized this but now I would love to bring this up as a topic to discuss.

Yours,

Secure

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:29

Secure

Also, I'd like to say I'm

Also, I'd like to say I'm sorry for the weird tag thing I did, I just didn't want to have a completely misleading title, and didn't know how to add the tags or whatever properly.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:31

Flowchart

cliff's notes: they brought back some promo items and what if they do it to others.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:37

Immortous

O_O

MY EYES HURT!

Try googling "paragraph" please! For all our sakes!

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:36

Immortous

Whoops...

First double-post...

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 18:59

Tiroth

...

This is hardly the first time OOO has made promo items available some time after the promo ended. Personally, I think it's a good thing, as people who weren't around the first time or couldn't afford it then can pick them up.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 20:22

Traevelliath

Well I think OOO are certainly aware of certain rare promo items being in high demand and low supply. They acknowledged this with when the Featured Auctions came around, making rare halos, wings, dapper combos, and even Rose Regalia available. People REALLY want them, but because the supply was so low, the prices were just ridiculously high. The Featured Auctions made them at least more available, yet they still maintained a high price. A Chap for half a million is quite a step down from SEVERAL million... but half a million is still a pretty penny. Crowns/Crests of Winter, while more common, still are quite valuable.

Also this just reminds me of real world economics. Buy a stock and, while it usually goes up, you always risk loosing something. Holding onto promo items is essentially investing, relying on it becoming far more valuable over time.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 22:10

Secure

"Holding onto promo items is

"Holding onto promo items is essentially investing, relying on it becoming far more valuable over time."

Except, it's not when you hold onto them and their value actually decreases.

Imagine the people who had Crowns of Winter and were waiting to sell them prior to the update.

EDIT: I've put it in to paragraphs, due to complaint and hopes that more people will take the time to read.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 22:15

Tenkii

Isn't that just a part of this game's economics?

Choosing to hold onto a promo item to let its price inflate isn't a 100% safe investment : Yes, the longer you hold it, the higher its value becomes, but the reintroduction of items and decrease in value (to other players, of course) is something you should be expecting if you hold on to items too long. Of course, this only restarts the process, what with people quitting the game or accessories getting bound or 'unbound' (deleted), the number of promo items in circulation is bound to go down.

It's only wrong to assume that rarity is non-cycling permanent thing here, except for things like groundbreaker gear, I guess
:\

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 23:29

Secure

The problem is we don't know

The problem is we don't know what items will be the "except"ion, or at least so it seems right now. If I know a promo item has a chance of reintroduction, in the case of the crown of winter why not try to get it from at winterfest box and spend A LOT less money with a 15% chance then try to get it from a solstice box with a 1% chance...

If you guys actually think reintroduction of promo items is cool and right, then you have to at least think that they should have the same percentages to receive... Not just getting less rare and less rare as time goes on like Crown of Winter did, and will keep doing. If the percentage was at least the same I would almost agree with the risk to try to get a promo item, the risk that it would be reintroduced.

" the number of promo items in circulation is bound to go down "

This is most certainty not true, as if it is just part of the game's economics like you say, when a promo item is slim in numbers, and actually rare they could easily just reintroduce the promo item making the supply increase, the demand decrease, and the price drop.

I do understand your theory of recycling the process and I guess that would and is working. It just.. doesn't seem right to me.. That rare items can become un-rare. Maybe I've played Runescape too long, haha.

Sun, 12/30/2012 - 23:47

#10

Fehzor

Nothing is sacred, except Ground Breaker. Not a beta player? You'll never be "old to the game" or otherwise "special."

Deal with it.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 06:40

#11

Secure

...

Who say's I'm not a beta player. And, why are you putting in quotes things that have not been said.

This is about item value not being "old to the game" or special.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 06:41

#12

Secure

...

DOUBLE POST.

Sorry

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 06:42

#13

Najdorf

groundbreaker

they should reintroduce groundbreaker as well. Many of us have helped 'break new ground'. SHadow lairs...danger rooms...danger mission...OCH...missions in general...guildhalls...promos that hurt or helped us...and thus have the testers and sufferers at times of the bugs and problems therein...there are no sacred cows in SK and neither should there be.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 07:05

#14

Niichi

Just a question, but did Three Rings actually promise that the Crown of Winter, Snowfall Aura or any of the other promo items referenced in the OP were in fact unique to the promo they were originally part of?

I mean, I looked at the announcement thread for the Solstice event and I didn't see anything suggesting OOO would never bring the items back again.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 08:09

#15

Exerpa

Several limited items have

Several limited items have been leaked back via featured auctions, eg love auras, metal sonic sets and prime bombheads. Assuming that such items were going to be one time deals and should be hoarded for investment purposes is entirely up to market speculation. My own expectation is that all the items will be re-issued later on as over the next few years the promo item range will eventually outnumber the iron lockbox range.

If only the accessory system had been based on crafting right? No need for hoarding and a guaranteed constant CE sink for OOO. I don't know about everyone else, but the inaccessibility of limited editions and lack of control of the lockbox system deters me from using it, I have no plans to open anymore boxes ever. As for limited editions, having a ~1% chance of getting 'the good thing' in a CE promo certainly deters me from wanting to buy CE also. The last promo that made me think 'I gotta get that!' was the love aura. However recent event-box style promos just scream at me 'stay away' with its extremely high chance of not getting the thing that I might have wanted.

Personally I have been holding onto a cat tail, dragon wing and tails tails not as investments, but because as they are irreplaceable, I can never put them on anything now just in case they would look better on something new in the future. I wonder how many other players are not enjoying their "rare" items due to the lack of future-proofing? Yet I am almost certain the purpose of opening up the tail slot on armors was exclusively for the cat tail (and bunny ear) promo in the hope of re-creating the success of the dragon/valk wing promos, something that would not have been possible if the slot was already occupied by such wings.

I am a wearer of a wolver tail, while I was moderatly annoyed when the cat tails came out due to them being much cheaper and better for my costume, the unlikly transistion to a much more accessable accessory system would certainly get my vote - most of the time it feels like "the only winning move is to not play"

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 09:18

#16

Softhead

Nadorf.

Please understand.

This is for people who particapated in helping SK flourish, during beta.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 10:02

#17

Secure

"Just a question, but did

"Just a question, but did Three Rings actually promise that the Crown of Winter, Snowfall Aura or any of the other promo items referenced in the OP were in fact unique to the promo they were originally part of?

I mean, I looked at the announcement thread for the Solstice event and I didn't see anything suggesting OOO would never bring the items back again."

Your right, they did not and I was not suggesting that they did, however I'm pretty sure it was referenced and suggested that the promo items and all promo items are rare items for players that pay to get them. Players pay to get these items for one of two reasons. They either want the item themselves or they are investing in it. Why should anyone invest in a "rare promo item" if it's worth is going to not rise, but DROP in the future with reintroduction to the promo items? h

But I am going to explain why I think that is a problem, or if it's not now it could become a problem replying to his comment below.

________

"they should reintroduce groundbreaker as well. Many of us have helped 'break new ground'. SHadow lairs...danger rooms...danger mission...OCH...missions in general...guildhalls...promos that hurt or helped us...and thus have the testers and sufferers at times of the bugs and problems therein...there are no sacred cows in SK and neither should there be."

Think about what you say. I'm not disagreeing with you on Groundbreaker armor, as it has really, no value whatsoever other than cosmetic appeal. However if you are applying this to all items "...there are no sacred cows in SK and neither should there be", this is where I completely and utterly disagree with you. The economy in this game whether you want to realize it or not is partially if not almost fully based on supply and demand, just like the real world. If there is a huge supply of items, there will be no demand. The price for everything will drop, and everything will be worthless if there is a huge abundant amount items (especially the ones that where valuable like the once rare and promo items being reintroduced) and any item is obtainable to any player. Not even any player, if every once rare item was obtainable to more than half of the players... If nothing is "scared", there is no desire to have or obtain it. There is no demand for any item. There is no want. People pay for items because they WANT them. And you must also remember, a cosmetic item in the game especially (which are usually the rare and valueable ones) are only worth what people pay for them. And, if no one wants them, no one will.

This is why your theory that nothing should be sacred, doesn't work. Of course, that is your theory taken to an extreme. It is not like this yet, but you are suggesting that is the direction that you wish it to head.

Keep in mind though I didn't really intend to talk about items being rare or sacred because it's cool to have them. I'm trying to talk about a promise to the players about the security of being able to buy a "rare" promo item and invest in it to GAIN and not lose money. Whether this promise was made or not, directly or indirectly I'm completely unsure. But, whether there is a promise to players that pay, or if there isn't nevertheless, I think everyone must realize one overlying fact. There is no advantage of being able to get or try to get an item that was in a promo if it's just going to be reintroduced later!

Thanks to everyone for their time and replies,

Secure

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 09:55

#18

Secure

Exerpa

"Personally I have been holding onto a cat tail, dragon wing and tails tails not as investments, but because as they are irreplaceable, I can never put them on anything now just in case they would look better on something new in the future. I wonder how many other players are not enjoying their "rare" items due to the lack of future-proofing? Yet I am almost certain the purpose of opening up the tail slot on armors was exclusively for the cat tail (and bunny ear) promo in the hope of re-creating the success of the dragon/valk wing promos, something that would not have been possible if the slot was already occupied by such wings.

I am a wearer of a wolver tail, while I was moderatly annoyed when the cat tails came out due to them being much cheaper and better for my costume, the unlikely transitions to a much more accessable accessory system would certainly get my vote - most of the time it feels like "the only winning move is to not play""

I'd like you a whole separate post for your comment, because I agree with you. I don't like the accessory system myself, I thought it was a terribly set up when it first came out, but this is what it has turned into sadly...

This is amazingly sad and true and I'm glad you've brought it up. But again, sadly this is how they've made the accessory system. It's actually quite a stupid plan and setup I think.

This is my idea of it:

1. Accessories (the rare promo item ones); start out extremely rare; once you put them on items you can't take them off and you're stuck with them forever; what if you put them on something and something better comes out that you wished you could put them on in the future.
2. INSTEAD of being able to oh I don't know let's say TAKE OFF OLD AND STILL VALUABLE ACCESSORIES THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE PAID MONEY FOR (THUS KEEPING THEM RARE AND GIVING SECURITY TO THE ORIGINAL INVESTORS AND OBTAINERS OF THE ITEMS), the "solution" that they came up with I believe is reintroduction of old and once rare promo items so that players can put them on the new items,
OH WAIT...
Except they aren't half as rare anymore or valuable, or maybe in the future even rare at all...
3. No promo items are secure in value, the economy will never thrive from private sale, we know not what items are valuable and what aren't. The players are left in the dark. They don't know what they should do with the accessory, whether they should put it on, whether it will still be valuable in three or six months... ect.

Is this the reward the players get for paying?

"I wonder how many other players are not enjoying their "rare" items due to the lack of future-proofing?"

I'd like to say I think very many with myself being one of them. I'm not suggesting that you are agreeing with what I've said, but I completely agree with what you've said and brought up, if I've understood it right.

Thank you for your intelligent reply,

Secure

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 10:00

#19

Njthug

I guess your investing in the wrong items since I been making over 60k+ Ce off each promo.

Anyways cant blame Three Rings if you do not know how to invest in a promo.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 10:04

#20

Secure

Who said I wasn't making

Who said I wasn't making money. I'm not talking about the past, or the present. I'm talking about the future. The direction this looks like this is going to head. You can disagree with me on my prediction, but you cannot say it's wrong, as no one can predict the future.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 10:52

#21

Njthug

I disagree with your observation and do believe it is wrong due to this:

1. Winterfest Summer items --- the names basically give away that these items are going to come back for sure.
2. Sk 1 Year celebration items --- In my view it was a given for the sprinkle aura to come back surprised none of the rare party hats did tho.
3. As for Gen 1, 2, and other rare items such as dragon wings --- As Nick posted before many of these items are limited time promo's, but none of the promo's say get it now or else they will never come back. (Nick's example was Starbucks I think how they always have seasonal coffee flavors).
4. As for profiting a good merchant never buys an item for its original "sticker price" if you did buy lets say a snowfall aura for 20k Ce and were thinking I can sell this for 30k Ce (That is a huge risk), but like any merchanting/investing risk will always be there.

You are right on the fact we do not know if three rings will put up old rose sets or anything like that up, but then again if you are holding onto one for this long well that is the risk you are taking since you can cash out now or in 2 years+, but in that time span just hope Three Rings does not ruin your plan to make millions.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 13:09

#22

Secure

Njthug

Thank you for your reply and opinion on this subject, after all that's what I was asking for in the first place.

Also thank you for informing me of this, "but none of the promo's say get it now or else they will never come back. (Nick's example was Starbucks I think how they always have seasonal coffee flavors)." As I was unaware thats how they were thought of.

Also to my knowledge:

"Winterfest Summer items --- the names basically give away that these items are going to come back for sure."

The Crown of Winter was not a Winterfest item, until the "winterfest" update. It was part of a promo that came out in the summer, the Solstice Prize Box Promotion, I believe; which doesn't really entail to anything coming back atleast by it's name.

On Winterfest though, I have to agree with you. Make's the Crown of Winter sound like a seasonal item, with expectations of it coming back. Just like you explained it with the seasonal Starbucks flavors. The Solstice Prize Box Promotion could have been a special promo they did just in that month. By name it doesn't really suggest it's part of a holiday or seasonal event.

One last thing I'd like to say is that. The Crown of Winter did not just get released again. It got released again with much higher chances of getting it. Which is a reason why I am concerned. This reintroduction of promo items would also not bother me, if the items being reintroduced had the same percentage or chance of being obtained as it was prior to reintroduction.

I however did not change my views on this subject. If they keep making promo items available the supply will become more, and the demand will be less. Thus, the price of the old and once rare item falls. Unless they just keep making new promo items while releasing (replacing) the old ones the old ones will eventually become overly abundant, unrare and unwanted. But even if they did (and they probably plan to do so), I don't really like the idea of promo items becoming worthless in the near future and new ones just coming out to replace them. But if thats how they plan to do it, I guess there's not much anyone can do to stop it.

That is my opinion on the subject, and though I do still disagree with you, I will say thanks for yours.

Secure

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 13:23

#23

Heavy-Dragon

I dont want to write a paragraph, but let me...

point at the elephant in the room here.

The summer and winter crowns were released as part of a solstice promotion. Solstices happen twice every year. There was no promise that the item would never be released again.

The same is true of every "rare" item that has been promoted without a specific tag stating that they would be exclusive to a certain population.

If an item is hard to obtain, that does not make it "rare", and, further, OOO's definition of "Rare" may not coincide with the def. of certain players in the sense that "rare" to OOO just means "limited to event distribution" and not "one time release, if you miss it the first time too bad".

OOO also does not need to protect the rarity of certain items at the behest of players who happened to exist on the server when they were released. If the item was given as a reward for accomplishing a specific task, or specific improvement of the game itself/ community, then a rare item re-release would possibly be a problem.

TL;DR:
Just existing is not an accomplishment, unless OOO specifies. That being said, the crowns are still rare for the moment and will return to (approx.) normal price after the promo.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 13:35

#24

Little-Juances

Ill just say that this situtation was kinda justified. Its winterfest.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 13:52

#25

Goofio

I have a feeling we will see many of the promo items from the past year again. This includes dragon wings, party hats, and summer items.

I would rather see some promotional stuff reused if it gives Three Rings more time to work on new levels, game mechanics, and features.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 14:06

#26

Shamanalah

needs a TL;DR

Needs a TL;DR

And they will be extra rare promo in mid May... -_-

And they created a new super rare Impostoclaus Hat & Winterfest Coat set... Who cares about your Crown of Winter?

Yes promos often comes back, Halloween came back (but better). Winter came back (but better) so I don't see why other promos not coming back

Edit: Derp, Crown of Winter is not rare during Winterfest, herpa derp

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 17:18

#27

Our-Little-Ajo

I agree with nj

A good merchant can take risks but don't wait a year to sell.

Winter promo was 6 months ago, between this promo we had at least 4 more. So don't be surprised if in january we have a new tabard and chapeaus as a "new" promo or maybe more nemesis boxes.

I make over 100k ce each promo, and i know i have to get rid of everything a couple months after promo.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 17:49

#28

Aandy

I Personally think its a good

I Personally think its a good thing that the brig back these item. In a year or 2 those items could be gone forever if they dont bring them back. Even though they drop down in value during the event they would increase after if you just wait like every other item

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 18:39

#29

Arquebus

Compare and contrast!

It's interesting to note that Magic: The Gathering, another game where people collect things and it's where possible for the makers to release the same things again, takes a much more conservative approach to this issue. There are some differences between M:tG and Spiral Knights, however:

- Magic cards are liquid commodities: it's easy and natural to sell one for real money in order to buy real things. Spiral Knights items, on the other hand, have value only in the game world; once you've invested in them, there's no way to convert them to any other values but the ones that exist in-game. It's possible (but not likely) that real lives and livelihoods will be at stake based on the supply of particular Magic cards, so the makers have to be cautious with what they put out. Crashing the value of your Spiral Knights funny-money deserves much less caution.

- Spiral Knights' collector and investor population is significantly less of its customer base than Magic's. This is partially due to the illiquid nature of its items as described above, and partially due to it being a much younger game. Any game with collectible items has to somehow resolve the tension between collectors who want to keep the value of their investments, and players who want cool items without having to pay an arm and a leg. The economics of Magic lean further towards satisfying the former; in Spiral Knights, however, it's pretty clear that satisfying the latter is a better business move.

Mon, 12/31/2012 - 19:56

#30

Our-Little-Ajo

You're so wrong

In sk there's a huge buy/sell steam game market, if you add steam games market you can negotiate and convert ce into games or USD in paypal.

And i'va recieve a couple usd offers for some items, obviosly i rejected due to sk policy.

Tue, 01/01/2013 - 00:49

#31

Secure

Alright

Alright, it's a new year. Happy new years to you all. And I've now realized thanks to all of your replies this was a pointless thread to make. You're all right. And I've got to thank Exerpa for finding out the overlying message to all of this.

But please, let me bring up a few closing points:

"I make over 100k ce each promo, and i know i have to get rid of everything a couple months after promo."

We don't need to know how much you make off promos, you can just say you've made a lot. ;)

"And they created a new super rare Impostoclaus Hat & Winterfest Coat set... Who cares about your Crown of Winter?"

Is this what you will say when they reintroduce it with instead a 15% chance of obtainment, instead of 1%... I'd think you be saying "who cares about it".

Which is fine, and I understand your way of thinking. I just really doesn't make sense to me that "rare" items aren't going to be rare forever. But all have you have really proven to me that's how the game works, since your all quite so perfect in making tens of thousands of CE off "every promo" ...

Consider this a useless thread and question now, as too many people have pointed out that the system is completely perfect how it is and has no need to change ... Rare items will never be rare forever and could be completely worthless the next day compared to thier original value and players can never be secure about knowing what to do with them or how much money they can make or when they'll become completely worthless. But hey that's OK you just have make 100k CE from every promo. You know? Oh and by the way, supply and demand, that theory doesn't work. It doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry for even bringing it up. As was pointed out, ALL of the items will actually just go back to thier original value prior to the event, right after the event! So its all good see. BUT what you really have to do here is just know exactly when to sell the "rare" (but also not rare?) promo items and never, oh let me stress NEVER actually put the rare promo accessory on ANY item. But if you do, it's OK and you just have be perfect and make 100k CE off every promo, and if you don't well, you really only have yourself to blame. Right? And now for the overlying message, which was pointed out above by Exerpa, "the only winning move is to not play". But you know, who really wants to play games anyway? Haha

Thanks to all of the people that read my messages and replied,

Secure

And well, sorry for that...

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All of your valuable items could soon be worthless! ::tags::[Winterfest][Crown of Winter][Snowfall Aura][items][rare]::tags::