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The hunting blade and cold iron damge bonuses. issue?

12 replies [Last post]
Thu, 01/03/2013 - 07:24
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox

a reason why two weapons- the Civ and WHB- are qiute outclassed against what is SUPPOSED to be their prefered enemy. swords such as the flourish series outclass WHB damage against beasts and while i understand that it has a weakness to constructs and jellies that the HB makes up on the fact is bonuses such as sword damage low dont increase damage to the prefered enemy of the sword via the vs.[enemie} UV. the damge doesnt increase in further stratums or weapon levels either. an lv10 damage bonus v is beaten or matched by another normal based sword. such is the case of the Civ.

reasons against this post: reasons against them!

-swords with bolstered UV's become one hit kills against monsters making it OP
:originaly swords with UV's would have less to fend off other monsters with, (something you musnt forget) and UV bonuses would simply make it higher so that it beats its other sibling and is only slighltly lower then non-normal damage type weapons, such as the Civ is better against undead then the levi even with UVs, one hit problems of being OP stoped by making sure it doesnt do to much extra damge when coding.

-UV based swords are supposed to be specifically made for defeating certain enemies without the need of additional bonuses
:yeah and look what it got us! two perfectly good swords are rarely seen, used or ever named someones favourite. ik that not everyone goes for a favourite, and that UV swords again are supposed to be specificaly tailored to one job and theese will often be made as additions to arsenals not as a fav, but just how many people have you seen with one of theese? compared to other swords they are underused. the WHB is usefull against beasts, and wolver sets also help so shouldnt the two stack? OP only if the damage edit is overdone, but with over swords that are have element/shadow/piercing this stacks already.

-what about us gunners and bombers? the three weapons become unevened do they?
:like i said above element/shadow/piercing stacks already.

-UVs on most of eqiupment making it so easy to kill everything, no thank you:
:seeing as how UVs are rare or cost a total of 225000cr for three its hard to get unless you pay for and sell ce, but that adds to the ce sink. also bonuses of "damagevs.[enemy] high" are even more rare and are only fixed onto the the two swords. the fact that they are random also means people cant just spam theese UVs. (unless they are really lucky of course but luck isnt a major default really).

Two swords with the need for upping the effectiveness of their UV.vs.[enemy], fitting them back in with other swords and making them used again. the fact both swords where released with spiral knights shows just how old they have become with the new sets such as snarbolax sets and the bristling buckler series aka the modern sk.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 13:16
#1
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

Weapons like Vanquisher, Wild Hunting, and HDeconstructor, pure normal damage but with a natural family bonus, seem to me like they were created before specialized damage weapons. Before we could change equipment while in the Clockworks on all but 'break' floors (end of tiers, Basil floors) because arsenal stations have yet to be created. Normal weapons were still at a disadvantage compared to specialized weapons because we can see exactly what we will be facing long before loading the floor and know exactly what weapons to use. The two biggest incentives to use normal weapons are as a cheap utility to use until you can afford something specialized and the Vanaduke mask stages, but poison can compensate for specialized weapons anyway.

Normal weapons also lack the advantage of interruption. It could be that dealing higher damage also increases the chance to interrupt, such as using the charge attack on any weapon against a resistant enemy having very little interruption while being used against a pierce vulnerable enemy has high interruption but on a neutral target has medium interruption. I could be completely wrong, but it seems like interruption is based on how much damage you deal. If you deal pierce to a pierce resistant enemy, low damage, low interruption. If that enemy is vulnerable to shadow, use a shadow weapon, deal high damage, high interruption. Again, I could be completely wrong, but that seems to be the case. An easy way to test this would be having two of the same pure normal damage weapon but one with a big family bonus while the other does not, then use both against whatever family the first is more effective against. Knockback on certain kinds of weapons may also be involved.

Apparently they changed the knockback on the Vanquisher charge attack to match Leviathan. It used to have around half the knockback which made it more party friendly by not flinging a crowd of enemies, who are not likely to be interrupted, potentially into your allies and getting them hit. The lower knockback made it unique but apparently they decided weapons that promote teamwork and combat coordination are bad unless everyone is spamming swords with gun-like charge attacks but if anyone else does something not appropriate to their weapon type they must be crucified.

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 13:39
#2
Juances's picture
Juances

So.... the original idea behind those weapons will never work.
You'll have to find a different niche for them and re-do them entirely (change damage type? add statuses?)

Even if the UV on WHB turned it into the perfect beast killer, flourish is already good agaisnt beasts and fiends.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 04:25
#3
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
weapons such as the levi

weapons such as the levi interupt enemies anyway, and while you can argue the knockback is less effective you could also argue it is more effective. i dont mean make the flourish UP either, i mean simply make it so as the sword levels up and along further stratums up the bonus. perhaps then a lv5+ max the damage bonus, rather then only on high.

and now that you mention it there have been suggestions to add stun to the WHB as in gloaming wildwoods the bells prove effective making wolvers particularly easier kills. perhaps it could have:good chance of causing minor stun.

with the cold iron well its cold and theres a chain on it on the 5* version so freeze would seem fitting. on the charge attack the enemy could get frozen after the knockback, or the charge doesnt inflict so you must use the normal attacks, you could then link up a sort of combo. usi normal attacks to freeze an enemy in place, then using the charge hitting them three time as they are kept in place by the charge attack. but i think it would be more preferable if it froze after the knockback. maybe stat strength could be status: minor chance of strong freeze; or: fair chance of good freeze.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 10:56
#4
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

In a beta clip it shows a 4* Vanquisher with a light blue blade instead of gray and it was inflicting freeze. It may have been nerfed to make room for Glacius.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:38
#5
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
In a beta clip it shows a 4*

In a beta clip it shows a 4* Vanquisher with a light blue blade instead of gray and it was inflicting freeze. It may have been nerfed to make room for Glacius.

That's correct. This is a sword that didn't make it into the official release, (it had a different name but ToS forbids me from saying it here) and by it's appearance one would assume it was a beta Carver.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:45
#6
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy
@Hexzyle

That would explain why it's called Cold Iron Whatever. They should put that back in and get some shadow damage going on Dark Thorn Blade and the rest of that line.

@Luguiru

Damage is indeed tied to interruption, but I don't think it's the whole story. Polaris seems to interrupt more than the hits from Warmaster Rocket Hammer, for instance. I've noticed that using damage bonus for my bombs will let me knock down gremlins in lower depths where I couldn't previously.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 17:52
#7
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

I meant if you compare the same weapon mechanic, like Supernova against Polaris or the basic swings of Combuster versus Leviathan.

Fri, 01/04/2013 - 18:07
#8
Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"a beta clip it shows a 4* Vanquisher with a light blue blade instead of gray and it was inflicting freeze. It may have been nerfed to make room for Glacius."

Oh, so THAT's the Ice-Blade I saw in Spiralspy.

Sun, 01/06/2013 - 08:58
#9
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
i imagine freeze would be

i imagine freeze would be cojnsiderably good against undead as well. not to mention fiends i reckon, and the carvers description is "wards off the creatures of the dark". they either need to bring freeze back i reckon, or, ik i shouldnt change topic, and this isnt exactly the easy option so freeze is still welcome, but iron is "magnetic" so how about a magnetic status that makes enemies clump together unable to get away from each other for a while. please note its just an idea.
but back to the matter a status would certainly implement both swords.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 08:12
#10
Aiden-Curry-Puff's picture
Aiden-Curry-Puff
Maybe interruption is related

Maybe interruption is related to knockback?

Or maybe there's a hidden interruption stat that is affected by dmg bonuses

Also if I read OP correctly he was proposing allowing weapon bonuses to enable a total bonus exceeding max? For ex. Full skolver+BTS+WHB=max+high?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 01:23
#11
Mrgrey's picture
Mrgrey
+1

There are so many threads on the topic of the WHB (my fav weapon), but I'm looking for an older thread to bring back into discussion about the cutter line in general. They need to fix the whole cutter family.

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 11:15
#12
Myphenox's picture
Myphenox
there are a lot of swords

there are a lot of swords that need a fix. and i agree with you Mrgrey that the cutter line is particularly bad. yes, the DVS poisons but ever so rarely and the charge is considered useless. with the WHB, well we already know whats wrong with that.

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