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My opinions on fixing some UP weapons.

4 replies [Last post]
Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:01
Nineball-Seraph's picture
Nineball-Seraph

You all know them, those weapons that no one uses because they either don't fully upgrade or are slightly less efficient than their 500Kcr CTR VH brandish or some bull like that.

Cautery Sword:
1: Give it a 4* and 5* variant. This is a given. As much as you want people to spend extra ce crafting more mainstream weapons after wasting their time on the "mistakes", OOO, they'll spend even MORE ce, and willingly, if you give them good, fun weapons to use.
2: Change the damage type to be a 70/30 split, normal/elemental. This will help the sword become more useful in it's favored enviornment, Royal Jelly Palace, due to the prevalence of gun puppies and lumbers there, along with most other slime themed areas, but will also prevent the sword from "overstepping" it's boundaries and becoming better than it's counterparts for undeads and constructs.
3: Give a unique "Good chance of causing strong fire to slimes" variant on this thing, OR alternatively just weak fire to slimes, but on normal attacks, like Fang of Vog. The point is to hurt jellies a lot, and other monsters less so. For example, a mixed crowd of slimes and constructs. Send a charge attack through there, maim the jellies, and severely, but not completely hurt the constructs. You could also argue for a shock instead, but the description of the sword implies that it burns.
4: A flat-out damage buff may be necessary to be a viable choice over the nightblade. The status might accomplish this as well.

Callahan/Iron Slug:
1: Slight increase in damage may be necessary, for the sake of having decent DPS. A slow-firing gun should at least be able to do as much damage per hit as a flourish of an equivalent level.
2: Increase chance to stun if damage is left untouched.
3: Due to the whole "stopping to fire" deal, these guns are currently long-range support weapons at best. Remove or greatly reduce this effect, it makes the gun too dangerous to use when playing alone or in close quarters, similar to the Blitz Needle. The needle has massive damage output to compensate for that, however.
4: Increase the walking speed while charging, to be comparable to, say the walking speed while firing an antigua. Decrease charge time and increase the recovery time from the charge knockback on the player.
5: Allow the charge attack to pierce through multiple targets.

Argent Peacemake/Sentenza/Silversix/Blackhawk/Antigua:
1: The charge attack is laughably bad due to it's length. Remove the earlier ordinary shots, and only keep the large powerful shot at the end. Reduce charge time greatly as well to compensate for lowered damage.

Winmillion:
1: It's a 4* weapon that has no 5* equivalent. Take a guess what we want.

Cutter/Striker/HB/WHB/VS/DVS:
1: Remove all knockback on "ghost" swings.
2: Increase damage per swing.
3: Reduce knock back on the first 4 swings of the combo, increase knockback on 5th swing.

Too tired to write more right now, it's midnight. Editing in next time: Cold Iron Vanquisher, Fang of Vog, Catalyzer, Pepperbox, Sudaruska.
I'll also look into other weapons on request, but the ones I won't touch are: Bombs as a whole, don't know anything about em. Alternative flourishes, there's been several threads on that already.

Discuss my ideas, tell me what you like and don't like.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 01:28
#1
Breaker-Xd's picture
Breaker-Xd
FoV and others.

Before you give YOUR 2 cents on Fang of Vog, here are mine.

The sword looks like a WHB/DVS. Why doesn't it attack like one? I have no qualms with the charge (it's phenomenal), but having an attack pattern like the DVS/WHB would be BETTER than having a slow 3-hit combo. It also just doesn't make any sense for it to attack like a Levi when its shape is identical to the 5-hit swords. Of course, chance of burn on each hit is too powerful, especially for something with such a nice charge attack, so definitely leave that out.

Sudaruska is pretty simple; add in the 2nd-swing stun, like everyone has been asking for. There's honestly no reason not to have it when both Faust/Gran Faust and Triglav have status chance on 2nd swing. (Don't even TRY to argue that Stun on 2nd would be too powerful. Hello? Faust line gets freaking CURSE.)

Alternative flourishes have recently been getting a push for status ups, and I completely agree. Boost statuses and people may love them just a little more.

Winmillion really needs a 5*, i want a Winfinity.

CIV: To be honest, I can see no way of making this weapon more usable without having it become completely identical to Levi. Upping damage simply makes it a UVed (albeit slightly weaker) Levi, and barely changes a thing from how it is now. Adding MORE damage-type UVs (for example, maybe damage to Fiends too? Everyone hates fiends!) might expand its usage niche (Firestorm for trojans AND zombies!) Still doesn't destroy the theme of Cold Iron Vanquishing dead-ish things. Also, notice the word COLD. I believe there was some talk originally about it inflicting freeze, but that was taken out to make room for Glacius. To be honest, I disapprove of the charge causing freeze, but some others may think it useful.

Pepperbox: I feel it's nice as it is now, albeit less useful due to normal damage, and fire status (useless in FSC). Maybe people should just use it to farm Jelly or something.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 03:13
#2
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Cautery Sword, Cold Iron:
Do like with shard bombs. Put that damage bonus at Very High and also add a status. Freeze for Cold Iron and Poison for Cautery. I'd be fine with both swords staying normal. What's not to like about a normal damage poison brandish? One could take it anywhere and the worst that could happen is you wouldn't be able to poison something.

Magnus
More interruption. Piercing on the charge sounds good.

Antigua
This gun is favoured for its mobility. Allow the user to move, not aim, while shooting the volley before the bird.

Pepperbox
Pepperbox is fine. Nerf Blitz Needle to before the 20% charge buff.

Catalyzer
Let charges stick to shielded enemies. Hits to shields should also detonate charges. Charges would still need to orbit over a weak point to do damage or otherwise just hit the shield. Enemies caught in the blast radius of a charge should have all orbiting charges also detonate.

Fang of Vog
Let's do something fun with this weapon! Put a cutter pattern on it, but keep the current swing speed on the attacks. Increase the swing speed by an equivalent of ASI: High when the user is on fire. This would apply even if the user has ASI: Max.

Sudaruska
Every hit should have a chance to stun.

Heavy Deconstructor
5* upgrade downsizes to a 3* radius. A little stronger than Nitronome before construct bonus, nearly instant fuse time.

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 04:23
#3
Choridia's picture
Choridia
Let me say a little word

Let me say a little word about Antigua line...

There's no use to change the charge attack, as long as last hit stucks in the wall if your back is too close to it. So probably there's much better to fix that problem first. Also, can't see any sense in changing Antigua charge at all. It's like "let us move while we charging from heavy gun". In this system, Antigua and Blitz Needle have mostly same charge, making yourself more mobile while shooting charge or making charge shot faster because of cutting "weak" part of it probably gonna disbalance weapon as is.

Also, before posting such a things, do you really thinked about weapon balance? I know, changing some weapon stats can make it fun, but some of your ideas still can make weapons overpowered(I'm not sure if it's really oblivious, but it is). Making Cautery Sword a complete weapon line is good idea, as well as making 5* Spur sword... but those things needs much more deep thoughs than just "oh, we want such weapons, there's a sugestions how you can make it more powerful and interesting for peoples, please make it for us".

Mon, 01/07/2013 - 09:34
#4
Nineball-Seraph's picture
Nineball-Seraph
@everyone

@Breaker
I agree and disagree on your FoV idea. As little as it make sense for it to work like a Levi, I just don't feel like it'd be right for FoV to swing like a cutter. I'd vote for a new FoV sprite that looks more Levi-ish before I voted to have FoV become a fire-y cutter.

To be honest, curse is pretty terrible outside of LD, and I only ever see it once in a blue moon there.

I think freeze on CiV makes sense, like it's "imprisoning" the restless undead with it's chains. There would also have to be some sort of staggering effect to protect the user. Otherwise it becomes suicide to lock a bunch of zombies in place with you.

I was tired last night, ignore my comment about the pepperbox.

@Zeddy
Civ/Cautery:
Your idea makes sense and is a helluva lot simpler than mine. Though I'm not quite sure how to explain that the sword poisons non-jellies.

Antigua:
Alternate idea would be to allow them to move and aim, but reduce the damage on the final shot or remove the final shot completely. Though it wouldn't be as cool looking.

Catalyzer:
That covers just about everything. My only thing to add would be a moderate or slight increase to the bullet's flight speed. To make it more viable against faster targets, and allow people to use the biohazard against them dodgy gremlins.

FoV:
Heh, attack with all reckless abandon when on fire? Sounds like fun.

Suda:
Agreed. Just don't put the proc rate too high.

Decon: Like I said, I know just about NOTHING about bombs.

@Choridia

The thing is, Blitz has a massive damage jump with ALL of the shots in it's charge attacks, and my silversix does the same damage on each shot up until the final one. Antigua doesn't do epic damage like blitz, so it doesn't make sense to give it the same style of charge attack and turn it into a "Light gun with moderately heavyish charge attack".

With a blitz, you can use the charge pretty much anywhere that you have something to shoot at, because you're likely to do so much damage that you'll murder anything before it gets a chance to smack you. I made my suggestion for the antiguas because I feel it would balance itself out. You'd be lowering your single-target DPS by charging, you'd be giving up some mobility while charging, and in exchange would be able to hit multiple targets for moderate damage.

And bro, that's exactly the reason I post such things. If I knew how to perfectly balance everything in the game, I'd probably just send OOO harassing emails all day and try to talk directly to admins. I put it up here so that other people can offer their opinions and we can figure out if my ideas are any decent and how to improve them. I don't expect OOO to do any of my suggestions just yet, this is more of a draft to get ideas out there. OOO might like an idea, and then decide how to properly balance it themselves. We're just trying to make it easier by fixing our own ideas.

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