Spiral Knights - Punch UV Rolling Question

Punch UV Rolling Question

5 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 06:07

Paintool

Previously I thought, and maybe it still is, that it would be more economical to roll 3 single UV's for the price of 60K on an item. the price of 2 UV's comes at 75K and effectively costs about the price of 4 single rolls. It appears that getting 3 chances is more likely to get what you want, but...

My question is is it possible to reroll a UV you already have to become higher or lower?

If not, are you guaranteed an absolute new UV, are the odds of getting ASI or CTR higher if you reroll something with 3UVs on it with only damage bonuses when compared to rerolling something with 1 UV at a time? (I'm not taking into account what level of buffs they are, just the increased probability of getting a ASI or CTR)

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 06:25

Little-Juances

Say you roll 3 UVs. You like 1, but want to change the other 2... you still have to pay for the 3 UV roll.
Also it's entirely random, you can get the very same type of UV.

I dont see how rolling 2 or 3 is more economical.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 07:42

Bopp

agree

You can't have two UVs of the same kind on a single item, but you can certainly get the same UV on multiple rolls. For example, suppose that you have ASI+1 on a sword and you buy a 2-UV ticket. If you choose to keep the ASI+1, then you have no chance of getting another ASI UV as your other UV. If you choose to give up the ASI+1, then you could certainly get a ASI UV as one of your two new UVs.

If you want to get a single nice UV, such as CTR on a bomb, then you want to purchase many 1-UV tickets, not fewer 2-UV tickets or much fewer 3-UV tickets. You can prove this using basic probability theory (and some reasonable assumptions on how the UVs are randomized). The short version is that it comes down to the fact that a 2-UV ticket costs more than twice as much as a 1-UV ticket, and a 3-UV ticket costs more than three times as much as a 1-UV ticket.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 07:47

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

1 UV to get your first
2 UV when the first is good enough
3 UV when the second and first one are good enough

I mean I have normal Max on Skolver, yeah I didn't want that but I'll keep it and add something else for 75k cr, it's a no brainer...

You don't put 225k cr for 3 roll on UV when it cost 60k cr to roll 3 times 1 UV to actually get one decent

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 08:49

Bopp

exactly

Ever since Punch was changed, so that you can lock UVs while rolling for other UVs, the ideal strategy has been just what Shamanala says. Do 1-UV tickets until you get one of the UVs that you really want (at the level you want it). Then do 2-UV tickets, locking that UV, until you have two UVs that you really want. Then do 3-UV tickets, locking the first two UVs, until you have all the UVs you want.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 10:22

Nocanc

Probability

>My question is is it possible to reroll a UV you already have to become higher or lower?

I believe so. As in if you have ASI med, a reroll has a chance of getting higher or lower ASI, along with all of the other UV types. Maybe someone else can confirm this with personal experience.

>If not, are you guaranteed an absolute new UV, are the odds of getting ASI or CTR higher if you reroll something with 3UVs on it with only damage bonuses when compared to rerolling something with 1 UV at a time?

Assuming reroll can result in the same UV type, there would be no difference between fresh roll and reroll.

Short answer:
Single UV chance of getting either CTR or ASI is 25% per roll while triple UV is 75% per roll. You can work out the math on price for the rolls to see which is better for you. As a bonus, triple UV gives you the chance of getting both UVs you want.

Long details:

8 types of weapon (non-bomb) UV from wiki:
- Attack speed increase (ASI) (can't be obtained on bombs)
- Charge time reduction (CTR)
- Damage bonus vs (construct, gremlin, fiend, beast, undead or slime)

If you're looking for ASI or CTR, your chances for single UV rolls would be 2/8 (or 1/4 = 25%) chance each time, meaning likely average of 4 rolls to get either ASI or CTR. No guarantees of course, depending on luck.

For triple UVs, since you can't get the same type more than once, my math works out to 56 possible permutations with each UV types appearing 21 times out of 56. So chance of getting 1 uv you want would be 37.5% per triple role. Since you want either CTR or ASI, your chance would be 75% per triple UV roll. You'll likely get either of those UVs in 1-2 rolls.

This is only the mathematical chance for UV types. Chance of getting Low, med, high, VH is another can of worms.

Now, _if_ you want both ASI *and* CTR (same with any 2 specific UV types), your chances would be 6/56 or 10.7% per triple UV roll. Again this is pure statistics and probability, unless I missed something in my math.

Hope this helps.

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Punch UV Rolling Question