Spiral Knights - Reports

Reports

33 replies [Last post]

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 21:45

Rahul-Ahl

Hi,
I`m new to this game, and was wondering how does the report system works? I tried to find a report section on forums, but couldn't find it. So I`m sorry if this is in the wrong section.

I reported someone a couple of days ago using /report NAME. But it never asked me to type in what the report was, only had me select the option called Scamming, and that was it. I presumed they would contact me at some point, but I really have no idea how it works.
I don't even know if what he did was reportable.

Basically I was new to the game and a guy called Professionalknight was friendly. He was showing me around, telling me what items are good, etc.
Once he knew that I had a Tricorne Costume, that is given by steam to players who own Total War games, he wanted to buy it.
I told him I had no idea on its price, so I would rather not sell it. I wanted to use it myself. But he was presistant. He tried to buy it for 1k, then 2k, then 2k+ a Wolvers cap, then for a Wolvers cap and a Wolvers coat. He was insistant it was the right price and that he really wanted that costume for himself.

I didn't know at that point, that it was a special thing from steam, and presumed I must have come from some monster I had killed. So I gave in and sold it to him. Later on I checked and saw it was worth more (about 100k?). So I just asked him if he knew what it was worth when he bought it from me? After that point, he stopped replying to me. And 10 minutes later I saw him trying to sell it.

While, I doubt the 100k was gonna make a big difference either way, it did give me a sour taste from the experience on my day 1 here. I realize I should have probably checked prices before I sold anything, but does this fall under scamming as per this game rules at all?

According to the wiki here scamming is: Scamming is stealing from another knight through misrepresentation - examples would be stating that an item can make you invincible, impersonating an administrator or tricking another knight into giving out items or account information.

I suppose this could come under misrepresentation of the price, but I`m not sure. Can you guys tell me if its reportable, and if yes, how do I do it? Like I already said, the ingame report system seems pointless since it doesn't even ask me what the report is.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:03

Laadiesman

This is the community of

This is the community of Spiral Knights. Greed and PvP my friend, enjoy becoming one of us.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:06

Rangerwillx

If you already reported him, there is nothing more you can do. Whether the fellow is banned or not, you won't get a message from a admin.
I would say that a ban would be justified, as you were new to the game and did not know prices.
But, to be honest, this is just a bad rip-off. There is a difference.
You really, REALLY SHOULD ALWAYS check the price of something before you sell it.
So you won't be refunded, and even though I feel sorry for you, the fault is yours. The person probably won't be banned.
The item IS valuable, and worth quite a nice amount (more then 100k).
I am sorry to see that this gives a sour taste to the game, may you have fun (and stay out of a scammers way) in SK.
I, personally would have banned this feller though..

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:13

Zaffy-Laffy

Zaffy is Laffy

I believe the proper term is called business.

He did not really scammed you, you just failed to establish a more proper and fair trade. You scammed yourself.

/facepalm

Zaffy's facepalm level increased to 10. New skill - Double facepalm

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:40

Mzculet

Give the guy a break Zaffy

@Marz-Ashbringer
=P

@Zaffy-Laffy
No it is not business, I'm sure the scammer knew how much the tricorne was worth so he insisted on buying it for cheap then later on tried to sell it for a higher price and profit. Basically he took advantage of someone new to the game Which is scamming & wrong Even if you don't consider it scamming it is still wrong to do to a new player. (come on now is this isn't how we treat and welcome new players)

This happened to me once my suggestion is stay away from people being nice to you I'm sure they're afteryour valuable possesion =P

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:50

Rahul-Ahl

Thanks for the comments

Thanks for the comments guys.

And Zaffy, its not business. I was a manager in a company before, and that is definitely not how you do business.
I agree it was something I should have checked before buying, but honestly, an online game is about meeting people, making friends and having fun.
If you have been reduced to scamming new players for their items even in a game, then I`m sorry but you cannot hide behind the fact that this is what business is.

In real life when someone does something like that, its not called a business. But at least in real life there can be a reason for someone scamming others, since you need money to survive. Some who might not have enough to buy food can be forced to throw away their ideals and just do what they have to do.
In a game they don't get that excuse. If your morals are that low, that even in a game you would resort to that, where you aren't really forced to do things you don't want to, then I don't really have much hope for such a person in real life.

I can understand that its been done, and cannot be undone. I even understand if nothing happens to the guy because he might not have technically broken the TOS. I did`t actually have much of a hope for it to begin with. But for someone to defend what he did and instead blame the guy who lost is just wrong.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 22:50

Rabeet-Ahsan

First rule of survival: Don't

First rule of survival:
Don't reveal valuables if you are new and not experienced in a new enviorment a.k.a don't flash the cash.

Second Rule of Survival:
Don't trust anyone or anything they say until you confirm them or their statement.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:01

Wodanct

I believe the term you are looking for is con artist.

a swindler who exploits the confidence of his victim

and its sad to see such a new player getting ripped off by people in the community already. Also yeah.. don't get scammed in this game. 99% of the time staff will not refund you even if it was a legit scam.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:41

Zaffy-Laffy

When Apple moves their production lines to China to exploit the cheap labor, then sells their product at such a high and lucrative price, it's called business and not a scam? When you try to exploit the inexperienced player and rob him of his possessions at a price not worth it's value, that's a scam?

Technically, I still believe that people who fall for such unbalanced trades (or what you call scams) are more deserving of their punishment (by losing their assets)

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:32

Rahul-Ahl

I`m really trying to

I`m really trying to understand what you are trying to say here, but I`m falling short.
Unfortunately I see no comparisons between the 2 situations.

And I have no problem if in your head you believe that someone deserves their punishment for falling for an unbalanced trade.
That is how you believe, and you are entitled to your belief. Personally I wouldn't agree to that, but its still fine.

What I do have a problem is with you saying that the scammer is blameless, which is what your earlier post basically said.
You gave me an analogy earlier, now let me give you one.

By your reckoning, if a case goes to court where someone got scammed, the judge is just going to have a look and say, You got scammed, so you deserve it. Its not the scammers fault that you fell for it.

Or if a thief manages to steal something, the judge says, well its not the thief's fault, if your valuables weren't secure enough. He is a thief, what do you expect?

Or even, if someone gets assassinated, you just blame the security. They didn't do their job, its not the assassins fault that the security was lacking. He was just doing his job. This his business, how he earns money.

Do you see what I`m trying to say here? Instead of looking at the obvious thing, you are ignoring that and looking at the reasons why that obvious thing was not prevented.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:46

#10

Zaffy-Laffy

Zaffy is Laffy

This is free trade you are talking about. You were offered 2kcr and a wolver cap for a tricorne, and you, of your own accord, agrees to the offer, therefore resulting in a loss of 100kcr. You, of your own free will, gave away something not worth the value of what you receive. The scammer (whether deliberately or plainly without knowledge) wants to buy your tricorne, and you accepted it.

So tell me, is it really the scammer's fault for giving you an offer, or is it the losing end (who actually agrees to the offer)? So my previous statement means, it is still your fault for losing a 100kcr worth of asset, and that this "scammer" should not be punished. The "scammer" has not violated your rights, and you yourself gave him a tricorne.

"Or if a thief manages to steal something, the judge says, well its not the thief's fault, if your valuables weren't secure enough. He is a thief, what do you expect? Or even, if someone gets assassinated, you just blame the security. They didn't do their job, its not the assassins fault that the security was lacking. He was just doing his job. This his business, how he earns money."

For that, these are violations of human rights, and therefore the culprit has to be punished. For getting scammed, it was not of violation of your rights, and therefore not of the culprit's fault. Let the loss of a tricorne be a lesson.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:58

#11

Mzculet

Zaffy his new of course he

Zaffy his new of course he didn't know the price. He Probably thought that 2kcr Was allot in this game like 2k is allot Irl.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 00:04

#12

Zaffy-Laffy

Oh sure, like I think 1000 rupiah is the same as 1000 USD.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 01:25

#13

Rabeet-Ahsan

Rupiah?

Which currency is that?I think you mean Rupees which is used in many Asian countries and 1000 Rupees isn't a large amount at all infact its a very small amount.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 02:00

#14

Zaffy-Laffy

Zaffy is Laffy

Seriously?

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 02:02

#15

Hollafamer

my 2 cents

Even tho it sucks that it happened to you and it wasn't right. The person in question really did nothing wrong. You accepted the trade therefor you agreed to the terms. Hate to say it but really is your fault. Scamming is quite rare in spiral knights. Think of it this way if someone trades a old painting for a new computer(completely hypothetical) but later find out that the painting was worth millions do you think they get painting back? No a deal is a deal same rules apply here. If such a thing was considered scamming then every Mercher in the game would be considered a scammer. Hopefully this doesn't sum up your spiral knights experience. Learn from it and make sure the same thing doesn't happen next time. Good luck to you and also Welcome

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:21

#16

Rating

Assuming the other knight

Assuming the other knight tried to admit that he did not know the price of said item (he instead appeared to play dumb and just keep changing his offer), but assuming he knew the value of the tricorne was what it currently is, then he is 100% in the wrong.

This is comparable to (already mentioned) being conned, insider trading, ponzi schemes, and being swindled. In each one of those instances, one party is operating from a position of much greater knowledge and knowingly taking advantage of someone for personal gain. In the real world, those are crimes and they are punishable. If we bring that forward into the game, this other player knowingly took advantage of a new player (for 150k cr no less), and their actions are despicable and deserving of a ban from Spiral Knights.

@Zaffy - While there are people out there who may not sympathize with the victims of con artists, swindlers, ponzi schemes, or insider trading (and there are plenty of people who feel that people should be smarter than that), the greater population has a greatly different opinion, and luckily we (generally) listen to the voices of the many and not the few. While you may feel your opinion is a valid one, it is not the popular opinion and the greater population would disagree with you. If you look at the definition of scamming, there is absolutely no way you can sit there and say what this knight did is not a deliberate attempt to misrepresent himself to take advantage of a new player.

@Hollafamer - scamming is definitely NOT rare, in the general sense. I'm not sure what you consider to be rare, but multiple times per week I see someone talking in trade about being scammed/someone trying to scam them/someone actually trying to scam someone. You may consider that rare based on the population size of SK, but I personally don't consider that to be rare.

The moral of the story is trust no one when it comes to buying items, selling items, trading with others, lending out CR or CE, or paying to do anything. What you will find is that it is fairly easy to make CR in this game, although you definitely would have been able to set yourself up nicely to progress through the beginning stages of this game with 150+k CR.

PS - you should remove that knight's name so you don't get a ban yourself. It is against forum rules to shame other knights (even if they deserve it)

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:46

#17

Zaffy-Laffy

... I still don't know which

...

I still don't know which of the two is worse. The scammer or the one getting scammed. And to think this guy getting scammed, is a manager of a company =.=

It doesn't matter if the scammer has misrepresented himself and tries to swindle someone, but it was indeed, without a doubt, the victim who had actually fallen for the scam.

The scammer didn't assault you, did he? The scammer didn't threaten you, or even insulted you. There were all the opportunities in the world to say no and you say yes, and you still have to blame the scammer. How unethical.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:42

#18

Rating

While I do wholeheartedly

While I do wholeheartedly agree with your meme, I am now starting to wonder if (/kind of hope that) you're just trolling...

If you really believe what you're writing, then may god have mercy on your soul

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:54

#19

Little-Juances

From what I read, one could argue the scammer was "harassing" the victim with offers to buy his hat.

It's open for interpretation. The way the conversation went plays an important role.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:55

#20

Knight-Of-India

@Rahul-Ahl I have bad news

@Rahul-Ahl I have bad news for you my friend that person who scammed sold it for 100kcr and some other things and now he is going to get a vog coat for it. What how i know this? Well he is my friend and a few days ago he told that he got a tricone and he is going to sell it. And believe it or not he was from my country and after looking at your name i think u are an indian to so i feel ashamed when a countrymen cheats another person. How evr i might have a solution for you. His GM is a good person tell him about this and he might tell that person to give back those things.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 08:56

#21

Knight-Of-India

HIS NAME IS DIGICOM forget

HIS NAME IS DIGICOM forget the caps

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 09:37

#22

Rabeet-Ahsan

@Zaffy-Laffy

Sorry didn't know that you were from Indonasia or something but judging by that your currency is pretty low valued(No offense).

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:05

#23

Nexassassin

Boils down to knowledge of the fact and what he actually said

He was insistent it was the right price

If the other guy ever said any false material statements that would substantially tip the trade in his favour and he is aware of it, then yes, it is a scam.
Examples:
"The Tricorne isn't that valuable", "It's only worth a few k". They make you say "Huh, I'd better sell it cheap then".

Bad examples:
"I really want the costume for myself". Ideally, you shouldn't give a darn as to whether or not he wants it for himself.
"I'll buy it from you for 2k and a Wolver Cap". It's a legitimate trade offer.

From the looks of it, what the other guy says after the trade has as much to do with what went on during the trade. He might have honestly believed Tricornes were that cheap....though highly unlikely, it's possible.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 02:41

#24

Zaffy-Laffy

/sigh

I am not suggesting that the victim is fully at fault, but the fact that the victim could have prevented his own loss. If you truly believe what anyone says, you must clearly need a education course. Yes, the scammer is at fault, but what I am saying here is that the victim should take the blame because he has clearly failed to stop a preventable crime from happening.

If you (Rahul) are really a manager, you would have learnt to do some research before-hand and be able to reach a proper level of trade, and be responsible for any losses incurred. You have apparently failed to do such.

You've given away a valuable item, with your own free will but without properly thinking through, to someone, legally, and you expect to have it returned to you!? Here's an example, you threw 10 $100 bills out the window. When you reached the ground floor, the money was taken away by an unknown person. What will you do? Accept the fact that you purposely threw away the money without realizing someone will take it? Or Lodge a police report and complain about the person who took it and go on a manhunt for it?

Don't you guys get it? You can prevent yourself from being scammed. For the world without victims is a world without scammers. Scammers will soon find a way other than scamming to profit from when they realize they can't scam anyone. Until then, I wish you not to get scammed again.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 19:31

#25

Rating

@Zaffy - do swindlers, con

@Zaffy - do swindlers, con artists, and the like get punished for taking advantage of others in real life? Or do the victims get told "oh too bad you should have known better"? Do we blame the victims, or the perpetrators? We blame the perpetrators, and they are the ones who are punished. While we may all shake our heads and say, "how could they have not known better?" in relation to the victims, that doesn't mean they deserve the blame for what has happened to them. Sometimes people learn lessons the hard way, but that doesn't mean we (as a society) don't have a moral and legal obligation to make things right for them in the mean time, while punishing those who go about committing these kinds of heinous deeds.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:00

#26

Softhead

True, but then, there's the fact that this is behind a computer screen.

You shouldn't really trust anyone there. Same thing with giving your account away. A guy did it last year, as to help him, but then he got stuff taken away.

Hope the person gets some retribution.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 20:23

#27

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

IMHO trades are trades, you accept it you deal with it. There is no turning back.

It's like when you go buy a car to someone, you could go and give him the 5 grand he asked for... or try to get a bargain, if he accept... are you scamming it?

It's a bargain after all?

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 21:35

#28

Klipik

agreed with both sides

1- Yes, I believe it is against the terms of service to trick someone into believing something is worth much more or less than it really is.

2- Yes, you should have checked the price.

Final conclusion: There's nothing more you can do. And you said the report system didn't ask you what it was, but it told you to ask what you were reporting someone for? What's the difference?

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 01:45

#29

Rahul-Ahl

@Klipik

Well, when I report someone for scamming for example how will they know what to look for?

I`m just trying to see from their point of view. I mean if I was in charge and I see someone being reported for anything, I would want to know details. Like what did he try to scam? Did he make an application that steals passwords, etc. And if he lied about something, what was it?

That`s why the report system felt a bit inadequate to me, since the person investigating the report wouldn't know what to look for, unless they have the details.

Anyway, on topic, thanks for your support guys. One of my friends heard about it, and gave me his Shogun Helmet since he doesn't play SK, which was nice of him.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 01:54

#30

Rahul-Ahl

Actually, can someone tell me

Actually, can someone tell me what the Shogun Helmet is worth?

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 04:11

#31

Rabeet-Ahsan

Its around a 100kcr which is

Its around a 100kcr which is like 50 times greater then what you got paid.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 04:24

#32

Zaffy-Laffy

Zaffy is Laffy

Why not just wear it, no one can steal it off anymore. <<< Sounds Legit

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 14:03

#33

Wodanct

"Trades are trades". Please, please go into real life with this sense in your head. By all means do it. You'll quickly learn the difference between hiding behind a computer screen and a person actually being able to get a hold on you.

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