Spiral Knights - Using the new kat hats as hybrid armor?

Using the new kat hats as hybrid armor?

16 replies [Last post]

Tue, 02/05/2013 - 22:14

Fehzor

My thought here would be that it benefits the knight more to have a split between rate of fire and damage. That is to say that one attack speed increase and one damage increase would increase performance, by more than 2 ASI or 2 Damage.

Which means that if you're a sword user, then bringing along the claw kat hat alongside vog or skolver would not benefit you as much as would bringing one piece of vog and one of skolver.

But what would benefit you would be bringing the claw kat hat alongside something like volcanic demo; this would let you use bombs with much more proficiency at the cost of some of your sword damage/attack speed.

Another example would be one where the user wants to use argent peacemaker alongside a sword; using a piece of vog and barbarous thorn shield alongside the kat eye hat would yield the user improved handgun performance, as well as balanced, meaning optimal sword damage.

Agree? Y/N

Either way, I'm testing this out at some point, probably soon. Vog+bts+eye-hat/bomb hat, or even sword hat, should get me nice, yet subtle, results.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 07:01

Bopp

we know the percentages

Although there are some deviant cases (such as the shard bombs), we know that each level of damage bonus is about 5% (based on the Lancer Knightz data --- the wiki page "Abilities" says it's about 7%) and each level of ASI is about 3.5%. I don't remember the effect of CTR, so I'll confine my remarks to regular attacks.

If you simply want to increase DPS, then max out damage bonus first, and then get ASI if you have more room for bonuses.

If you want to go for kills per second, then ASI will always help you by 3.5%, whereas damage bonus will sometimes not help you at all (you still kill the monster in three strokes) and will sometimes help you dramatically (suddenly you kill the monster in two strokes). The obsessive number-cruncher would know how much health the monsters have on each level, based on the number of knights in the party, and would fine-tune his damage bonus accordingly.

You know all of this, I'm sure. So maybe I'm misunderstanding your question/comment.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 07:40

Fehzor

Yeah, I should be a bit more clear... but my thought would be that 1 asi + 1 damage would be greater than 2 of either straight up for most weapons in terms of overall performance (presuming that the weapon benefits from ASI/Damage). This maximizes the overlap- that is, that you get 3.5% more of your 7% damage bonus, in addition to the other benefits of attacking 3.5% faster rather than just 14% more damage or 7% more attack speed.

You could certainly number crunch like your saying and know exactly how many hits it would take, maximize your chances, but no one has time for that and it would be boring.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 11:33

Golfdinger

Total | DPS | DPS ## of | DMG

Total | DPS | DPS
## of | DMG | w/ 1
UVs_|_only_|_ASI_
0001 | 1.070 | 1.035
0002 | 1.140 | 1.107
0003 | 1.210 | 1.180
0004 | 1.280 | 1.252
0005 | 1.350 | 1.325
0006 | 1.420 | 1.397

Assuming DMG UVs increase damage by 7% and ASI increases dps by 3.5%:
Having all dmg UVs will always increase your dps more than substituting a single ASI UV.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 12:31

Bopp

yes, because

Yes, damage bonus increases DPS more than ASI does, simply because 1.05 and 1.07 (whether you estimate damage bonus at 5% or 7%) are both bigger than 1.035 (the 3.5% increase from ASI). But the effect should be multiplicative, not additive. So, if you want to use the 7% damage bonus estimate, the chart is really

level dam asi
+0 1.000 1.000
+1 1.070 1.035
+2 1.145 1.071
+3 1.225 1.109
+4 1.310 1.148
+5 1.402 1.188
+6 1.501 1.230

P.S. This is why, when you are starting a bank account, you want a high interest rate. Slight differences in interest rates lead to big differences in money, over time.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 14:30

Bella-Donna

boop

But this is all damage related. Asi means you can shield faster and protect from damage.

ASI favors defense

DMG favors offense

Kat Hats offer a bit of both.
Probably not too noticeable.

The Helms:

The Sword one gives Asi boost that takes the place of crown of the fallen for sword user and also give a damage boost. Now I wish I never got a Crown of the Fallen.

The bomb fills the shadow bomb gear nitch.

The Gun one fits divine color scheme and gives asi like the dead shot but gives some damage as well.

over all I would like the kat hats to have a unique thing for all of them and have some specific gear rating, for example MSI and damage bonus low or asi low. More things need MSI.

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 14:31

Spicegirls

More things need MSD

Wed, 02/06/2013 - 16:50

Bopp

Bella-Donna

Yes, I certainly agree that ASI helps with defense. I talk about this in my sword guide. It's just hard to measure how much it helps you, because that depends on your latency, your skill, whether you're solo or in a party, etc.

In other words, I didn't respond to Fehzor's clarification because there is no clear answer. Damage bonus is easily quantified, but ASI helps you in a lot of subtle ways that I can't quantify. Cheers.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 05:34

Fehzor

You mean to say....

That damage increases more with more bonus? So the first damage level gives 7%, then the next 7.49 etc?

And even if that is so, then wouldn't the overlap between damage and ASI benefit you just as much?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 07:22

Bopp

Fehzor, I don't understand this last comment of yours. To whom were you responding? In case it was me, all I'm saying is that 1.07 * 1.07 = 1.145. So two 7% bonuses don't result in a total bonus of 14%, but rather a total bonus of 14.5%.

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 11:05

#10

Fehzor

Ah, ok. That would be what I was wondering. So a split between ASI and damage would not bread efficiency, necessarily. Then where would the new hats be useful?

Thu, 02/07/2013 - 12:08

#11

Bopp

don't know, but

I still don't know, but maybe this is Three Rings' motivation: Wolver, Gunslinger, and Demo lines are overused. Players want to wear something different, without sacrificing offensive bonuses entirely. The kat helmets look pretty neat, and have a slightly-funky-but-not-bad set of bonuses. So they should divert some people away from the overused lines?

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 02:51

#12

Aureate

The thing that annoys me about them is

they have status weaknesses where other armours do not, in particular Shock
they have odd amounts of bonuses (+1) which makes it awkward to maximise out offensive bonuses, since all other commonly used 5* equipments give even amounts of bonuses, and the maximum amount of bonus available is an even number

A bomber might want to use them as a shadow-defence armour, I suppose, and the 5* versions make nice costume helmets, but even so, I'm not entirely sure that'll be enough to attract people towards actually using them.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 11:02

#13

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

IMO, OOO needs to stop following the Seerus mask model for equipment and focus more on new sets.

Fri, 02/08/2013 - 13:42

#14

Aureate

Oh yeah, that as well.

I'm still miffed at the fact both the Kat stuff and the Seerus stuff are helmets only, so I can't mix and match the two.

Sat, 02/09/2013 - 01:58

#15

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

Also, don't forget that damage bonus can also change the number of hits it takes to kill an enemy, so while the maximum DPS might be easy to quantify, it's usefulness, like ASI, can be much harder to attach a number to.

Sun, 02/10/2013 - 04:39

#16

Krakob

It's not about the armour...

It's about the weapon! =D
Try these with the Qat Kowl in cuestion:

Cold Iron Vanquisher
Wild Hunting Blade
Heavy Deconstructor
Cautery Sword

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Using the new kat hats as hybrid armor?