Spiral Knights - Best Weapon to Use Against...

Best Weapon to Use Against...

17 replies [Last post]

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 00:21

Starmandeluxe

Currently I'm having a bit of trouble defeating a few types of enemies. It's nothing problematic, it's just more difficult to defeat them than most of the other enemies I usually encounter. I'm considering alchemizing one or two more weapons to make Clockwork runs that much easier, but I'm not entirely sure which weapons to choose.

Current arsenal:

Silent Nightblade
Blizzbrand
Dark Thorn Blade

Troublesome enemies:

Devilites
Greavers
Howlitzers
Gun Puppies
Kats
Gremlin Demos

I'm thinking of a Polaris to take care of the Gun Puppies, Howlitzers, and Kats all with one weapon, and maybe a Dark Briar Barrage for Devilites and Greavers. Gremlin Demos aren't too much of a problem if I have my Silent Nightblade, but it would be nice if I had a way to get at them that didn't involve walking through a minefield.

Any suggestions?

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 02:01

Troupe-Forums

Bombs are possibly the worst weapon to use on greavers/devilites. The dark thorn blade/BTB is an ideal weapon for these. I find it hard to use polaris against kats effectively, but brandishes are ideal for such mobile enemies. You could also try using your dark thorn blade on them.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 02:23

Orbwanter

Your Dark Thorn Blade should be fine for fighting Devilites and Greavers, you just have to learn how to deal with them. For greavers, you want to walk backwards as they chase you, then swat them by shield-cancelling your first swing. When fighting Devilites, don't get impatient and rush into a pack. Letting them become overtimers can be advantageous, because they can be baited into slow, predictable melee attacks. Polaris works well against Devilites, because the bullets are so slow they often dodge twice, jumping back into the bullet as they do. Bombs are awful against Greavers, but can work against Devilites if you plant and run so they chase you into the radius.

The best anti-Kat weapon in the game is the Warmaster Rocket Hammer, but if you can't afford the expansion (or aren't on Steam to trade CE for it) any elemental gun works. Polaris is good if you can get some distance, but firing it into enemies your teammates are trying to fight can get them mad enough to kick you out of the party, so you might want to consider an Argent Peacemaker or one of the alchemers. They're easier to hit as they move with Argent Peacemaker, but alchemers do more damage and have better charge attacks. Stagger Storm or Voltaic Tempest can completely shut down any Kats in the area as well.

Polaris is the usual sidearm for swordsmen deaing with turrets. However, I find it more difficult to shoot Howlizter heads out the air with one due to its tendency to knock the head around while it's still invincible. Argent Peacemaker is the best at that, but not an outstanding anti-turret weapon otherwise. Alchemers can potentailly one-shot turrets with the charge attack, but finding time to pull one off can be difficult if you aren't geared for gun CTR.

If you want a gun to take out any type of gremlin, your best choices are Blitz Needle or Umbra Driver. Blitz charges can be used near the edge of its range to knock down a crowd, while Umbra Driver has better mobility and the potential to oneshot enemies with the charge attack. I don't recommend Sentenza - gremlin demos tend to spawn with menders in tow, and Sentenza's complete lack of burst damage makes dealing with them a nightmare.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 04:39

Zeddy

For Devilites and Gremlins Demos you could get a Callahan. The combination of interruption/knockdown power and instant travel time works pretty well on devilites and gremlins alike.

For the rest the interruption power, reach and coverage of the Troika-line will get you pretty far. It's pretty easy to swing at Kats as they speed past you, then hit them with the second strike as they're about to bite you once you have the technique for it down. The coverage is also excellent for when you're swarmed by greavers, and if you stay calm you can perpetually keep turrets interrupted with the combo or use the charge to reach puppies across chasms.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 05:38

Starmandeluxe

*Whirrr*

Troupe-Forums
"I find it hard to use polaris against kats effectively, but brandishes are ideal for such mobile enemies. You could also try using your dark thorn blade on them."

I was able to use my Twisted Snarble Barb/Dark Thorn Blade on kats with great success in tiers one and two, however their faster and more frequent movement in tier three means by the time I've dodged all of their projectiles and gotten within slashing range of them, they've already moved somewhere else. I would think that shocking them with a Polaris or Storm Driver would make things easier.

---

Orbwanter
"Your Dark Thorn Blade should be fine for fighting Devilites and Greavers, you just have to learn how to deal with them. [...]"

Heh, I never thought of hitting Greavers first to beat them. Usually I shield for the first hit, watch as my shield breaks in the haze they leave behind, get stunned by their next attack, then die a frustrated death. Does the Dark Thorn Blade do enough damage to interrupt their attacks or would I need to upgrade it to the BTB for that?

Letting the Devilites become overtimers is an... interesting strategy. I'll try it next time I play.

---

Orbwanter
"The best anti-Kat weapon in the game is the Warmaster Rocket Hammer [...]"

I'd use the Steam version, but the last time I checked the Steam version came with an old packaged version of Java. Supposedly the vulnerabilities in old JVMs don't matter as long as the application running isn't malicious, but I don't want to find out.

If I have teammates fighting kats for me, I can usually go distract myself with skeletons or lighting candles or something. I looked into the AP, but it doesn't seem to have any significant advantages over the Alchemers other than having a larger clip and faster projectiles. Getting an Alchemer is certainly an option, but it would be nice if I could knock back grimalkins with the Polaris.

---

Orbwanter
"Polaris is the usual sidearm for swordsmen deaing with turrets. [...]"

If I can take care of kats with an Alchemer, I could just freeze almost anything else and create a window of time during which I could charge a shot.

---

Orbwanter
"If you want a gun to take out any type of gremlin [...]"

It seems like Alchemers are just solving all of my troubles today. Knocking down crowds of regular gremlins is usually accomplished with my Silent Nightblade and a crowd of Demos looks hard to do with a gun that makes you stand still while firing. I'll probably add the Umbra Driver as a medium priority entry to my list of things to make.

---

Orbwanter
For Devilites and Gremlins Demos you could get a Callahan. The combination of interruption/knockdown power and instant travel time works pretty well on devilites and gremlins alike.

That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for for Devilites. I read the Callahan had overall bad damage, though. I suppose damage doesn't matter much if they can't attack you, but is the damage difference large enough to be significant?

---

Orbwanter
For the rest the interruption power, reach and coverage of the Troika-line will get you pretty far. [...]

I never really paid much attention to the Troika line. Full normal damage and low attack speed are pretty plain. If you say it's that effective, though, I'll be sure to make a two or three star version to try it out.

---

Just to be clear, the list now looks like this:

Devilites - Dark Thorn Blade/Callahan
Greavers - Dark Thorn Blade
Howlitzers - Alchemer
Gun Puppies - Alchemer
Kats - Alchemer
Gremlin Demos - Umbra Driver/Callahan

After looking at the Alchemers, the Storm Driver looks like my best bet. Shock to take care of kats and it can take turrets just by virtue of being an Alchemer.

Thank you for all the tips, Orbwanter!

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 05:54

Bopp

my two cents

Gremlin demos can be beaten with your Nightblade, once you learn their AI a little better. It's not completely random. You charge up, wait for the right moment, and kill them.

I agree with the other posters here that piercing swords kill devilites and greavers (and trojans and silkwings, and all beasts) well. You shield-cancel a lot after the first swing. For devilites, approach in a zig-zag pattern to dodge their projectiles. And try to aggro only one at a time if you can. For greavers, try to retreat into a hallway, so that they all attack from a single direction. Then you can interrupt all of them until they die. I have also had good luck with spamming Polaris against devilites. Callahan is great fun, but I wouldn't say it's easy.

Kats are easy singly, but difficult in a group, with projectiles flying everywhere. For these particular undead, Divine Avenger is a great weapon, because it hits more than one target easily. But in general I prefer Combuster over DA. If you can get close to a turret, then Warmaster Rocket Hammer will just destroy the thing with its crazy second stroke.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 08:36

Starmandeluxe

*Click*

"Gremlin demos can be beaten with your Nightblade, once you learn their AI a little better. It's not completely random. You charge up, wait for the right moment, and kill them."

I can beat demos reliably with my Nightblade, it just takes a while and in the meantime I need to run around the whole map to avoid the bombs. Something that could status them or just kill them outright from a distance would help.

"I agree with the other posters here that piercing swords kill devilites and greavers (and trojans and silkwings, and all beasts) well. [...]"

Running at them in a zig-zag pattern and only getting aggro on one at a time are mutually exclusive unless they're conveniently lined up. :p

It seems like the "trick" to beating Greavers is not letting them attack at all. And that's reasonable considering their tendency to stagger their attacks to keep you stunned until you die.

"Kats are easy singly, but difficult in a group, with projectiles flying everywhere. [...]"

The DA seems counter-intuitive for kats. I find the hard part to be not having enough time to dodge the projectiles, run all the way to the kats, and then do decent damage before they all fly away. A slow first swing would only make it even harder to land a decent hit on a dodgy enemy.

I've read many posts extolling the Combustor, but I can't imagine doing anything difficult without being able to freeze a group of enemies whenever I can get a charge ready.

The key part of that last sentence is, "if you can get close." One Blizzbrand/Silent Nightblade combo actually destroys any turret if I'm soloing. The problem is getting close enough to start the combo.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 09:03

Bopp

response

Running at them in a zig-zag pattern and only getting aggro on one at a time are mutually exclusive unless they're conveniently lined up. :p

No, what I mean is: Aggro one, so that it comes at you while the others ignore you. Then zigzag at the one. In other words, dodge as it takes aim at you. Also, if you have to aggro more than one at a time, then you'll definitely want to do some zigzagging.

You want to manipulate their AI so they bite you rather than fire projectiles. If multiple kats try to bite you, and end up sitting next to you, then you can hit, interrupt, and kill all of them at once using DA. With a Combuster, you have greater trouble in hitting all of them, so one sneaks out and attacks you.

Your other responses are reasonable --- it's hard to get next to turrets, etc. --- but it all gets easier with time. For example, I routinely play with three swords (piercing, elemental, shadow) and no other weapons. All enemies are doable, although some would be easier with a gun or bomb. I know that that's not very helpful, though. Cheers.

Fri, 02/15/2013 - 12:59

Sir-Pandabear

"The DA seems counter-intuitive for kats. I find the hard part to be not having enough time to dodge the projectiles, run all the way to the kats, and then do decent damage before they all fly away. A slow first swing- "

You are treating DA as if it's a Thorn Blade. To get your mileage out of heavy swords, you have to use the full combo. Here's how to kill a kat:

-Position yourself about three or four tiles away from the kat. Pay attention to when it's going to charge.
-When the kat charges, strike it with the first stroke, and keep holding the attack button. This is a bug exploit similar to shield cancels, gun-switching and the extinct multisharding known as "midstepping" that lets you move between the first and second attack of swords. It works better on heavy swords so it's mostly used for those.
-Move towards the kat until you're just the right distance away and release the attack button. If timed correctly, the kat should get a DA in the face whether it decided to shoot or bite. I think you only need one combo to take out kats with DA, depending on party-size and damage bonus. Even if it doesn't die, you most definitely just interrupted its attack. Follow it up with more punishment!

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 08:13

Starmandeluxe

Bopp "You want to manipulate

Bopp
"You want to manipulate their AI so they bite you rather than fire projectiles. [...]"

Kats have an AI? I thought they just randomly chose between bite and projectile.

---

Bopp
"[...] I routinely play with three swords (piercing, elemental, shadow) and no other weapons. [...]"

Surely you can sympathise then.

---

Sir-Pandabear
"You are treating DA as if it's a Thorn Blade. [...]"

I've been avoiding heavy swords at least until I can get ahold of a Vog Cub set. They look hard to use without investment into ASI increases. I tried using a Sealed Sword on a JK run once. Never used it again after that. I understand the DA and GF are faster than the Sealed Sword, but the transition between Brandish and Sealed Sword throws me off.

Maybe I just need to get used to them.

---

Is the Storm Driver a worthwhile Alchemer or am I better off just going for the Nova Driver? Shock supposedly makes kats and turrets significantly easier, but if a few shots from a Nova Driver means I don't need to pull out my Blizzbrand at all, that would be better.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 08:23

#10

Bopp

classic

In your screenshot, where you face a rocket puppy and a gun puppy: Try not to aggro the gun puppy at all. (Retreat down the hallway until they drop aggro, and then return.) Run at the rocket puppy quickly, and destroy it with combos. It should not get more than one rocket off; absorb that rocket with your shield. Then walk over and kill the gun puppy.

A harder situation is a danger room full of gun puppies and some rocket puppies. Or a field of rocket puppies protected by spikes. Managing the aggro is crucial. You can't live long with more than one Tier-3 rocket puppy attacking you. Also, unless I'm mistaken, one rocket puppy's rocket can damage another rocket puppy. So if you do have more than one aggroed, then hug one rocket puppy while the other's rocket hits you.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 09:49

#11

Sir-Pandabear

@Starmandeluxe

I prefer to use my Triglav wearing full plate armour, for a net total of Attack Speed Decreased: Medium. Heavy swords are all about timing and all the ASI in the world will never teach you that.

Your rocket puppy situation, for instance, could be solved by using Troika or Sealed to slash down the rockets mid-air as you approach.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 11:37

#12

Starmandeluxe

*Beep*

How many regular Nova Driver shots does it take to destroy a turret solo? In a party of three?

---

Bopp
"In your screenshot, where you face a rocket puppy and a gun puppy: Try not to aggro the gun puppy at all. [...]"

Originally the Gun Puppy didn't have any aggro on me. I purposely got it to shoot at me for the screenshot.

The strategy you outlined was the strategy I originally tried. Unfortunately it "noticed" me while I was still quite a ways back and was able to get one rocket off while I was approaching and another off while I was attacking it. My piercing shield can only take two elemental rockets. By the time I was done, I had no shield and I was very close to the gun puppy.

---

Bopp
"A harder situation is a danger room full of gun puppies and some rocket puppies. [...]"

I was in a similar danger room two days ago. I was with a party at the time, so they weren't all aiming for me, but I found it surprisingly easy. I was lucky and froze three or four of them with each Blizzbrand charge. From there it was just finishing up.

In the situation in my screenshot I couldn't run around them or freeze them in place because of the low wall in front of them.

---

Sir-Pandabear
"I prefer to use my Triglav wearing full plate armour, for a net total of Attack Speed Decreased: Medium. [...]"

You, sir, are a very patient man.

When it comes to Spiral Knights, I am not. :Þ

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 12:51

#13

Bella-Donna

boop

It seems your questions were answered before I could join in the fun. :c

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 13:03

#14

Starmandeluxe

PSI Starstorm α

You could still recommend an Alchemer.

I think I'll be getting either a Nova Driver or a Storm Driver. The Magma Driver probably won't mix well with my Blizzbrand and if I get a Hail Driver I won't be able to stop running around Haven shouting, "I AM THE MASTER OF ANTARCTICA."

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 13:31

#15

Bella-Donna

Drivers

drivers: they deal statuses or they don't

Which one works best for me?

Well, It depends on the person:

Person 1: MAX THE DAMAGE!
Nova driver deals the most DPS though it doesn't inflict a status

Person 2: PVP 4 LYFE!
Storm Driver deals shock which removes invincibility frames and can let you rack up damage quickly on a single target as well as intterupting attacks, but it can be a bit unpredictable.

Person 3: I will kill it in time, just don't want to take damage.
Hail Driver freezes things in spot and deals damage when it thaws. it's also a nice choice against Darkfire Vana because it can freeze him while shiver can't.

Person 4: EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH FIRE!
Do I need to go into details?
Magma driver deals fire with works horrible with freeze, doesn't effect a number on enemies in FSC and also deals less damage than nova driver. Fire takes time to work and isn't worth the lesser damage. Ever. Except bombs.

Person 5: I have all those but I need something for some Gremlins and variety of damage types so i'm not carrying around only elemental weapons because that can be just as deadly as having the wrong alchemalizer.
Umbra Driver deals shadow damage and no status allowing it to be a good choice against gremlins and slimes and being okay against beasts which elemental wespons would give me trouble.

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 13:32

#16

Bella-Donna

AAHHHH!!!!

EARTHBOUND!!!! <3

PSI Flash α

Sat, 02/16/2013 - 18:39

#17

Orbwanter

Nova Driver is stronger if you're building around gun damage and CTR, because the extra 15% damage adds up a lot faster when you're spamming charge shots. Storm Driver works better as a sidearm, or paired with Nova or Magma (or a second Storm Driver with a different UV) for switch-shooting shenanigans.

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