Spiral Knights - Heartplug's Boss Run Opinion & Suggestion.

Heartplug's Boss Run Opinion & Suggestion.

15 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 22:48

Heartplug

I really love Spiral Knights. It reminds me of Snes Zelda gameplay with a Megaman Legends art style and also has a bit of a Diablo dungeon crawler feel to it.
Now I just named three awesome, timeless games. So Spiral Knights should be the greatest game on earth right? Unfortunately that is not the case. The main downside to this game, for me, is the lack of content and the amount of grinding to get through it.

As an mmo fan, I really don't mind the grinding that comes with them. Having to collect those 25 herbs or having to kill 100 enemies just to complete that quest isn't that big a deal for me. It only becomes a problem when your doing the same thing over and over to advance in the game.

Now yes, World of Warcraft had alot of the same quests, kill this, collect that, but the main difference is that it was altered in some way to be slightly different. Maybe there was a change of scenery, or maybe I have to kill harder enemies, or maybe I just got a cool new weapon or ability and killing the same 100 enemies wasn't sooo bad because I got to play with a new toy.

Diablo 2 had the same problem, players just doing boss runs and ignoring the rest of the content in game. The only difference is that Diablo bosses dropped random gear, and not tokens. Yes tokens aren't so bad, but when you get all the gear you need with tokens, it leaves little for the imagination of whats to come when your forced to grind more boss runs for better gear.

This is why I'm taking this out of Blizzard's playbook for their solution to boss runs, and I'm sure it's been suggested, but by increasing the size of the levels and by adding random elite enemies throughout the levels, and have them say, drop a token or a piece of one, players will feel more obligated to play through all of the levels you put your hard work into and keep them interested in your game without having to break the bank by adding new content.

Please break up the monotony of boss runs!

Mon, 02/18/2013 - 23:54

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

Like?

Snarbolax can already drop Wolver gear, Royal Jelly can already drop Jelly Gear, Vanaduke drops Skelly gear, and whatever the Roarmulus Twins drop falls off the edge.

Unless you have actual ideas for the equipment, there is no suggestion here.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 00:23

Heartplug

@Oatmonster

They drop specific gear that you can already buy with the tokens acquired from boss kills, which kinda defeats the purpose of tokens.

I'm not suggesting that bosses drop gear (although it would be nice if they dropped random gear and not set gear) but that they are too much of a grind and alot of the games content isn't enjoyed because boss runs is the only way to make fast cash.

And that doing boss runs shouldn't be the only thing to do in this game besides pvp.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 01:41

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

So you're not suggesting anything at all? Then Might I recommend you move this thread to the appropriate sub-forum, in this case the graveyard?

What do you mean the only thing to do? You know that big thing above the Town Square? Ugh, what was it called; oh that's right, the Arcade. There's even a nice convenient tab for it in the mission menu.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 02:07

Krakob

Since when are there differences beside stats on weapons in World of Warcraft? Wait, there aren't.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 02:13

Zaffy-Laffy

Well sorry if this game is in development for at least 3 years now, and that they have a minish 15 man crew.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 05:53

Thunder-The-Bright

posted to death.

there has been many suggestions on this, if you may scroll down the suggestion page and click the 2 or the 3, you will find at least one.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 06:31

Quakeman

grinding? out of the

grinding?

out of the kataclismist .. i never felt liek i was obligated to redo a dungeon

and the gameplay is more of a ragnarok (with better displacement and attacks but lack of camera rotation)
woth megaman guns

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 19:11

Heartplug

Ty for reading and taking the time to reply.

@Oatmonster -

I'm suggesting that levels be more rewarding and not just a stepping stone to boss grinding.
Developers invested their time and hard work into levels, only for it to be played through once. . . and let's face it no one plays the arcade.

The main focus of the game, besides the social aspect, is to build your character, explore the game, and make him or her stronger and cooler looking right? Boss runs is the fastest way to achieve this, it's backed by data.

@Krakob -

Even if the only difference is stats on the weapon, the outcome can be huge.

Say I kill a boss in the first dungeon of WoW and this awesome weapon drops, better than anything I'll get for a while, the difference is that I can now kill my enemies in a few hits and progress through the game faster, making the grind not so bad until I can get to the next area.
But with Spiral Knights the difference between a 3 star Nightblade and a 4 star Nightblade is not that huge and game breaking.

@Zaffy-Laffy -

Zaffy! stop. . .put down the pulsar. . ok, whew~ Remember in my first sentence when I said I love Spiral Knights? just because I say it's not the greatest game doesn't mean that I don't like it.

There have been many games that have been in production for even longer than 3 years that don't have anything close to the content that Spiral Knights has. (They truly have some talent on their hands at Three Rings)

I wasn't suggesting that they release new content or create new models, but to use the tileset and objects they already have in their own game.
All they would have to do is make the levels a bit bigger and change the values of an enemy & it can all be done by one person.

Take a Lumber for example:
-Change his color a little to make him more distinguishable from regular Lumbers and call him an elite.
-Change his drop table to include a boss token and maybe 1 crystal energy. Of course we wouldn't want it to be too easy, so.
-Change his attack and movement speed values and give him a little more health than regular Lumbers.

Place this new enemy throughout the clockworks and people will be more likely to play through all of the games levels and hunt for these elites.
Doing boss runs would just be a bonus for group play.

By adding this you can increase the replay ability of the game, making the game more enjoyed overall, upping your player base, and hopefully your income as well.

That is all, thank you for your time.

Tue, 02/19/2013 - 19:13

Klipik

+1 to minibosses/elites

You said increase the size of the levels. This game runs on Java. Lots of people wouldn't like it if you did that.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 09:09

#10

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

That isn't a suggestion. That's saying I want more stuff and not giving any examples.

Nobody is making you grind bosses. The point of the game isn't to make a stronger, cooler looking knight, the point of the game is to have fun playing it. If you only want to do the runs with the highest profit, then you have no right to say the rest of the game is not fun.

Bottom line is; you can't just say I want more diverse levels and then leave it at that. You need to actually provide examples. You haven't even given this "suggestion" a ballpark. You're just wildly throwing out "I wants." I want more gear, I want new enemies, I want bigger levels. Do you have any actual suggestions for these new items, enemies, and levels, or should you just graveyard this now?

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 09:45

#11

Gzilla

Currently Burning through Tokyo

If you want it, suggest something with examples, I don't see any ideas for the new gear you suggested. Where's the level design that you suggested? And comparing OOO to blizzard doesn't work. Blizzard has thousands of guys working on programming, but OOO is a small handful of individuals. What klip said too, i'm laggy as it is. I object to you saying no one plays the arcade. While new people, MAYBE yourself don't play the arcade some of the people that have been here before missions love the arcade. WHY you ask? Danger rooms, Basil for recipes, and maybe just for grinding. Besides we have danger rooms already,

if you want another challenge look around the clockworks for some danger rooms. And what you're saying about weapons is understandable, it's just game balance. If we got this super awesome weapon and just started mowing down every monster in sight, it'd be way too easy. My opinion on this if you want to argue feel free to, but as you can see you mostly have a negative opinion on this matter.

Wed, 02/20/2013 - 10:20

#12

Raptorsevens

A very simple

A very simple suggestion:
Randomize mobs throughout the levels.

I currently know exactly where every single jelly, scuttlebot, gun puppy, polyp and whatever will spawn in the royal jelly palace and in the ironclaw munitions factory.

Have a chance of spawning a different creature from the same fam instead of the mob that would've spawned. Randomly spawn one extra mob sometimes. At the start of each map just put some random mobs in the map itself. Currently every single stage is almost 100% the same.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 04:38

#13

Heartplug

~~~E <3

@Oatmonster -
I'll give a few suggestions & not a long list of patch notes to answer your question. I'll save specific ideas for another thread.

Since weapons in Spiral Knights act as spells and abilities in other mmo's, I'll give an example of a few.

WEAPONS:
HealCannon - This weapon can heal allies and adds a new role to the game besides damage dealing. Since it would make the game too easy there's a bit of a drawback.
- Because the weapon is two-handed, knights can no longer raise their shield to activate their forcefield.
- The weight of this cannon slows your movement speed.

SummonerWeapons - Releasing the charge of this weapon spawns a minion to help kill/collect for you, for X amount of seconds.
And with battle pets coming out, having the feeling of an army behind you is pretty sweet.

ChargeWeapons - You can't charge this weapon off the bat, but instead you have to hit an enemy to build up charges, finally unleashing it's power after it's limit has been reached.

ENEMIES:
I already gave an example of a new enemy.

LEVELS:
In hawaii there is only soo much land you can build on, so alot of the businesses you see there are actually stacked on top of each other.
The same can be said for haven and other levels, you don't have to make the area bigger, you just have to build up.

Raptorsevens also made a good suggestion for levels.
Random enemies and levels keep the game fresh and no player, playing through the same level, will ever have the same experience twice.

A random level can be made like this: You take a square room and add three doors, each door spawns a wing, chosen at random out of maybe a dozen preset wings. These wings do not have to be huge.

@Gzilla - I don't think it's a matter of weapon balance, but bad scaling. A 5 Star Knight should be able to blaze through a 1-3 star level. If they want to spend their mist and crystal energy blazing through less rewarding content, it should be encouraged. maybe they'll use their mist faster and want to pay for an elevator pass/subscription?

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 05:14

#14

Fleet-Miss-Gun

-1 on new post.

Healing weapons are very possible to exploit it by having an alt.

Summoner weapons can make you just summon them and leave the area since they do your job.

Thu, 02/21/2013 - 09:36

#15

Oatmonster

Lick Number 58425

I think you just made your thread worse, not better.

And as for your new enemy, you pretty much said Super-Lumber, you did't even say what color he would be.

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Heartplug's Boss Run Opinion & Suggestion.