Forums › English Language Forums › General › Suggestions

Search

Quick Upgrades to the Game: Solutions for Game Length, Heat, Mats + More

8 replies [Last post]
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:22
Driggan

By making three relatively simple additions to the game, which require little in the way of programming, the game can be substantially improved.

1. Implement a leveling system via heat. This could be done in several ways:

a. While gaining heat you expand the number of stars your equipment can have. You start at 5 stars (meaning you can wear 1 star armor, helmet, shield, and two weapons) and level your way up from there.

b. Add a potential limiter based on heat level, similar to the effect of shallow depths on high star equipment. Even at depth 28, 5 star gear won't be effective unless your heat level is high enough.

Obviously characters with tier 2 or 3 activated you'd need to give a higher starting heat level. Perhaps give them enough heat level to be able to equip all their currently equipped gear. For the star method, and possibly the limiter method, make it slow down quite a bit at higher level so people have to work to get their 3rd and 4th 5* weapon as well as 5* trinkets.

2. To go along with suggestion one, add an Incinerator either in town or at random in the Clockworks where a person can burn a certain amount of materials a day to transform them into heat. Give more heat for higher star mats. Give even more heat for burning equipment.

This should alleviate some of the material glut and make materials more important to people. The extra equipment from crafting for UV's would also have a use as well.

3. At tier 2, allow people to specialize in a weapon type. This could give reduced charge rate, damage, or weapon speed (or something special, like drastically speeding up reloading guns or allow you to shield during reloading). At tier 3, allow people to have a secondary, weaker specialization in another weapon type. Allow respecs, but make them cost fairly high energy levels, or have the amount increased each time to discourage it.

This will give meaning to having multiple characters. I know this goes against the classless idea of Spiral Knights, but I believe it would drastically lengthen and improve the game. Some people enjoy feeling specialized at certain things, though it might be necessary to offer a 'generalist' specialization as well. Having multiple characters will mean needing to equip them as well as raise their heat levels.

These are all easy programming tasks that require almost no graphics updates (other than building an incinerator and a few menus, perhaps). They improve game length drastically, give purpose to heat, reduce mat glut, and create a greater demand for equipment.

What do you think?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:53
#1
PeterS
Legacy Username
None of these sound fun. I

None of these sound fun.

I very much enjoy being able to invite new people to the game and give them powerful equipment to join me on dungeon runs. Having to say "well, uh, just do a bunch of floors until you can keep up with me. And here, have a bunch of my old materials to burn for heat." does not sound very fun at all.

The lack of experience points and character level in this game is a deliberate design choice, and it's one that I and my guild have found refreshing and enjoyable.

I mean, you say you want to extend the game... But the game is essentially the same at T1 as it is at T3. If you don't enjoy the basic game-play of fighting through dungeons, hitting switches, and weaving through elegant danmaku-firing turret arrays, you won't enjoy it, even if it takes ten times as long to make the same numbers pop up when you hit something.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 00:11
#2
Driggan
It's one thing to say I enjoy

It's one thing to say I enjoy the game, which I do. It's another thing to say that I wanna do the same thing every time I play the game from now until forever. In my opinion there needs to be long term goals in the game that keep people playing, goals that are a bit more engaging than "Craft 1,000 weapons until you get a good UV". Progression is the lifeblood of RPG's, and without it you feel less and less incentive to log in and play the exact same game you played yesterday.

I'm not saying these are end all fixes, but they are useful stopgaps to keep players motivated until new content can be brought in. The leveling system, as well, should be made so that it mostly doesn't interfere with regular gameplay, unless the person spends a metric ton of cash on CE, until the endgame. Having people able to fight the current final boss of the game within an hour of character creation is design that will leave a lot of players bored and listless no matter how fun the game itself is.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 00:34
#3
irrimn
Legacy Username
I disagree with everything in

I disagree with everything in this topic.

That is all.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 03:01
#4
Pawn's picture
Pawn
i like grinding

I like grinding, and i love progression. I thought the total star value idea was really novel. Lvl1 5 stars to distribute thru your equip, etc. I would personally think lvling would then effect your starting health bars instead of equip doing so.

Anyhow, not changes i would like to see made to the game, but still neat and novel ideas.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 08:56
#5
PeterS
Legacy Username
Speedrunning isn't bad design

You know you can beat Super Mario World in a day, right? Longer isn't necessarily better, and anything that makes the game longer without adding more content has, in fact, made it less fun - it's spread the same amount of content thinner.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 11:27
#6
Driggan
"You know you can beat Super

"You know you can beat Super Mario World in a day, right? Longer isn't necessarily better, and anything that makes the game longer without adding more content has, in fact, made it less fun - it's spread the same amount of content thinner."

This is a pretty pointless comparison of apples to oranges. Games like that you buy and the company is done with you. The game only has to be good enough to leave a fond memory so you'll buy their next game when it comes out.

MMO's, especially microtransaction ones like SK, are completely reliant on the idea that players must continue to be players for long periods of time. Doing so generates more revenue for the company, (allowing the company to grow and hire more people) which can be given back to the player in the form of more quality content and play.

This is why people say it's pointless to try to compete against games like World of Warcraft, which has years of subscription fees behind it from millions of players. Whether or not WoW is 'fun' now is completely subjective (I don't like it much), but most people would agree that it is many times better than it was when it first launched.

At the moment there's nothing holding players in the game once they do the relatively short task of getting to tier three and beating Vanaduke. You can go for Fang of Vog, but, as I understand it, it's not that great anyway. Creation of whole new tiers is good, but content like that takes time.

These are just a few stopgaps to keep players interested, the money flowing, and the company growing, until more content can come out. I'm only suggesting this because I think the success of a company is directly correlated to the fun of the game, and it's a two way street.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 13:18
#7
PeterS
Legacy Username
Why worry about money?

Three Rings and SEGA can look after their own hide. I don't think there's much point to worrying about a game's profitability and growth (except, perhaps, from the standpoint of "I would like the player-base to be larger so that there are more people to play with") because the development team have access to a lot more information than we do.

If they're feeling they need to make more money, trust me, they'll start taking steps to make more money. Which, I mean, currently they're doing - the Rose costume pieces are incentives for players to convert to energy purchase, and there's a current wide-scale ad campaign going on to get word out about the game. Both of those things are pretty good strategies to grow the game, at least from my standpoint as a layman.

Talking about profitability requires a lot of data that we, as players, simply don't have - who is it that buys energy? What is it that creates a demand for it? Is it mostly new players, or mostly old players? What aspects of Spiral Knights' design capture the eye of new players? What differentiates it from its competitors? That sort of thing. That's why I think our suggestions should be made from the eye of the player experience as opposed to trying to think about the corporate side.

And yeah, it was intentionally an unusual comparison. I think Spiral Knights hews a lot closer to traditional storefront games than other online games in design, and this is a good thing. It's way more about fun game-play, challenge and skill than in making bars go up.

(...Though I do love me a good making bars go up game. Echo Bazaar crew represent.)

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 14:48
#8
Kauro
Legacy Username
Its not our problem

This game from what ive seen in its short little infancy is a big success...

You know what will increase its longevity? 5-10 star equipment and tiers floors!!!
making the game longer, simply adding a few new dungeon puzzle types, new enemies, new gear
and such will keep people going~ New terrain too.

But if we've made it to the core... what next? O_o....

possible ascension into space? a new dimension? the world outside haven but still on Cradle?

ooh, that's a good one, the further out into the planets wilderness and ancient cultures!
whatever lays at the other end...? WOOSH!

Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system