I didn't even get to upgrade my sunshards before it was horribly changed.
I was put off by the damage with no buffs before the change.
I vomited after the patch.
I didn't even get to upgrade my sunshards before it was horribly changed.
I was put off by the damage with no buffs before the change.
I vomited after the patch.
Read: "Sun Shards"; "Per Shard"
OOO's explaining for the removal was incredibly dumb, but I can see the reasons why the old shards have been replaced: low charge, low fuse, over twice the damage a usual DBB would do in one single blast.
Let's face it, SSS & SSB are only good for their Stun/Shock. Even with their Fiend/Slime dmg boost, they can't surpass the damage of their regular counterpart, Deadly Splinter/Dark Matter Bombs. (208 dmg on trojans against 230 dmg on the same enemy). That said, you can still overdo DBB single blast damage on one enemy if you manage to hit them with the initial blast and one shard, even on the SSS (280 dmg against 181+206 dmg on trojans).
Taking these videos for reference to my numbers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JxAiwj6rhU ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5n3cegxnys
And To be honest, why should bombers have to wait a set amount of time before placing a bomb when swords and bombs can just hit on demand.
@Sgt-Brownie
You're going to have to explain this with pictures or something. New sun shards have half the damage of old sun shards per shards. What's your point?
I can't tell if you're defending the new shards or not. You're posting a video where a guy is fighting Trojans very ineptly with them, for one thing. Also, it's next to impossible to hit a Trojan with both the core and a shard because Trojans block shards from spawning. You can, however, hit them with two shards using a simple technique and some open space.
Splinter Bomb and Dark Matter are for the most part entirely useless compared to Sun Shards and Salt. The damage difference is somewhere around 11% on the shards, which is completely superfluous, and 0% on the core. The maximum achievable damage with a bomb is core + 2 shards which makes the total difference somewhere around 8% if you use the bombs at their most effective. The inherent damage bonus is great for not having to use Mad, also. You can stick with Volcanic or Mercurial, which is a lot safer. The statuses make them a lot safer as well.
Splinter Bomb Shard: 162 without bonus, 216 with max
Sun Shard: 144 without bonus, 177 vs fiend without bonus, 193 with max
Core: 126 without bonus, 155 vs fiend without bonus, 170 with max
Dark Briar Barrage: 275 without bonus, 356 with max
At effective damage, piercing shards exceed DBB by a slight bit if you hit with core + 1 shard, but this changed dramatically against neutal target. DBB deals 61 less damage, each shard does 61-67 damage less per shard and 57-67 less damage on the care. Multi-hit weapons get really screwed over against neutral targets and as compensation should be a lot more effective against targets they are intended for. This is well-balanced for Plague Needle and Dark Retribution; undercompensated for with shard bombs; and stupidly, ridiculously, horribly overcompensated for with Blitz Needle.
@Th-Urret
Because detonation time is the defining characteristic of bombs. You charge it, you plant it, you wait. This isn't a drawback, it's an advantage. You get to do damage to a large area you don't even have to be inside or close to at the time of detonation.
I'm going to throw in my 2-cents of why I chose to abandon new RSS altogether in favour of DBB. My reason is not about the damage, but the ease of use. DBB has a well understood, true and tried mechanism: you lay it, wait for fuse to blow and it knocks down everything in blast radius with damage. That's as simple as a bomb could get in the SK universe.
The new Shard bomb is slightly more complicated (which is fine) but what makes me ditch it is because of the randomness it introduces. It's a 2 stage bomb, with each stage introduces randomness. The first explosion is meant to knock the enemies into the ring of shards (but we don't quite know which direction because enemies move) and then the ring of shards explode, knocking the enemies off course again. So if the enemies are well placed, it would got sandwiched by two shards and they would tend to move less (and so it's more predictable). If not, they could get knocked outside of the ring into your teammate's face. Then you get people complaining about your bombing skill or potentially MPKing. Winning the argument or not won't matter, because ultimately you learn to avoid the argument (which slow down your CR output) by simply not using a broken weapon (and saving the crafting CE in the process, a Win-Win scenario in my book).
Is it worth the hassle to use the new Shard bomb? Nope. Does that mean the new Shard bomb doesn't need a fix? If you don't dealing with the problem, of course it doesn't need a fix. That doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, however.
I don't know. I think this whole Shard bomb business is wearing people's enthusiasm down and make the game less fun. From Three Ring's perspective, I can see why they prefer not to deal with it anymore because, well, if you don't like it don't use it, we will implement some other features you would pay us for. And if they do decide to deal with it, I'm aware of two proposals that could work. But without knowing what Three Ring's future roadmap is, they may end up conflicting their other agenda. (Actually there is only one agenda, to make money.)
TL ; DR. Save the CE, don't use new Shard Bomb.
So the guy who made those videos must've had like damage trinkets or Mad Bomber, because the damage done was higher.
I get what you're saying, but besides a slight (just my 2 cents, feel free to correct me on this) under-compensation between neutral and effective damage and disappearance of shards, you would classify the shards as a balanced bomb, right?
I'd also beg to differ about Plague Needle's well-balanced dmg compensation, but comparing Plague Needle to the Blitz Needle (and the New Shards to the Old ones to a certain extent) in terms of damage is like comparing a broom to a vacuum cleaner: the vacuum cleaner is so much more efficient than the broom that it set the standard bar so high that using a broom is like wanting to do more effort than necessary, or just outright hurt yourself.
My damage numbers apply to depth 23, those videos were deeper than that. He probably had some kind of damage bonus or other as well.
It's hard to say how balanced Shard Bombs are because the game's balance in general is out of whack. Fehzor explained to me once that she put the weapons into three different tiers. I would divide the tiers like so:
So powerful they're boring to use Tier: Blitz, Brandishes, Alchemers, Shivermist, Voltaic Tempest, Dark Retribution, Hammer, Divine Avenger, Polaris, Supernova, Final Flourish, Barbarous Thorn Blade, Electron Vortex, Dark Briar Barrage
Balanced Tier: Other autoguns, Troikas, Gran Faust, Antiguas, Blast Bombs, Cutters, Fang of Vog, Valiance, Other flourishes, Levi, Venom Veiler, Ash of Agni, Stagger Storm, Graviton Vortex, Callahan
Hipster Tier: Shard Bombs, Iron Slug, Biohazard, Neutralizer, Winmillion, Cold Iron Vanquisher
This is strictly PvE, mind. In PvP Brandish and DBB drop a notch while DR, Iron Slug and Deadly Shard Bomb plummet to a fourth tier reserved for things that are so bad they're detrimental; just as an example.
The only guns I'd see to be in the High Tier would be the Blitz Needle and Polaris/Supernova, due to abnormal damage or knockback on one full clip.
I'd put all Drivers besides Cryotech one between High and Mid Tier: Yeah, they can deal brutal damage via charge shots, but its regular shots are where I find the Drivers have a really high skill ceiling when it concerns hitting 1 ricochet on the same enemy you shot. To this day I still haven't managed to fully master that.
I'd also put the Biohazard on Mid Tier, because you can just basically kite a horde of enemies by detonating one charge after the other -if you have the space to kite- and otherwise you still have 3 regular shots with a decent chance of poison.
Finally I'd put the Cryo Driver and Volcanic Pepperbox between Mid Tier and Low Tier. Cryo Driver because the ricochets are random enough to break enemies free of Freeze as soon as they got hit by the status, and Volcanic Pepperbox because the bullets knockback on charge shots make it less practical.
Volcanic Pepperbox is at least mid-tier because you can one-shot absolutely everything except Vanaduke with it if you're solo. Even when you don't, the knockback on the shots makes it more practical in terms of crowd control, which is just as useful solo as when partying. I started using alchemers last week and double-hitting enemies with them while aiming with an analogue stick is extremely easy. Nothing mid-tier about them.
I concur about Catalyzer being mid-tier, provided you're either solo or in a party full of Catalyzers, and that you're also not fighting gremlins. For this reason, Neutralizer ranks a bit higher than Biohazard.
I've seen Darkbrady switch-shooting cryos. It's a top-tier weapon.
Hmm question do the shard bombs still deal zero damage when you hit over the hit limit?
Dude, Cryo Driver is basically a nerfed Nova Driver; the freeze status never comes 100% guaranteed like Shivermist Buster does, and the ricochets can easily break out the ice anyway if your regular shot managed to freeze them. Plus it doesn't have the DPS of Magma/Storm Driver. Heck, the poison status would be better for the Drivers than the freeze status. This is why I consider Cryo Drivers to be a rank lower than its brothers.
Double-hitting with a Driver while standing still is easy, I will admit. It's when you're strafing and moving more to the sides where the complexity really starts to kick in. Not only you have to account for your movement, but the mobs' as well.
I remember some calculations done a while ago on Drivers, taking into account their proc chance; apparently Nova deals more than Magma on Elemental-weak monsters, while Magma deals more on Elemental-neutral monsters and more than Storm on a single target. Poison would certainly be better than Cryo for dps, but Cryo's purpose is a crowd control utillity tool for gunners while still dealing damage. Since the freeze halts enemies for longer periods but is easily broken, I usually see pure gunners use Cryo or Storm when solo if needing crowd control. Also, regarding maxing Driver damage, if you spam Nova single-switching, forcing you to stay still depending on your key slots, while aiming for ricochets, you can absolutely tear through mobs, especially in a place like FSC.
I'd say that Valiance could be a top-tier gun in terms of having high utility, good dps and low knockback. The low knockback is actually pretty useful for halting enemy advances both in pve and pvp, the latter shown by the increased popularity in LD nowadays. I'd also say that Gran Faust can also be considered a top-tier sword, with its increased speed and specialised damage type, while also being very effective against slimes and gremlins due to its mechanics. The charge's flaw can be resolved with specified armour sets, but can be very risky or disabling without. The other Flourishes, while having lower damage, also have high speed, range and knockback. These aspects make it a good strafing weapon, which I feel would make it more effective than Cutters or Troikas.
@Nubskills
Gran Faust is balanced with Troikas. GF is a little bit faster and deals more damage towards slimes and gremlins. It's useful for that. The charge, however, is not worth a whole lot. Both variants of Troika have much superior charge attacks vs anything. Their difference in damage is not all that big, either. Certainly not as large as the difference between Iron Slug vs Callahan and Brandish vs Leviathan. I've tried both Gran Faust and Triglav. GF is a very nice weapon to just slash away at enemies with, but I feel it ultimately falls a bit short as the lack of a decent charge attack hinders its versatility. With Troika (and Divine Avenger) you can open a battle by crushing a group of enemies in half with one charge. Faust doesn't have that.
I agree on Valiance, it's a very powerful weapon. I wouldn't put it quite top-tier, but amongst the balanced-tier it lies pretty high.
@Sgt-Brownie
Hail Driver does not 100% freeze an entire crowd of enemies because that's what Shivermist does. If you want a weapon to act like Shivermist, I think your best option is to get a Shivermist.
The Alchemers are crowd-affecting weapons, that's the reason behind their ricochets. If you unleash a Hail charge in the middle of a crowd, you won't freeze the entire crowd; you will instead do something much more useful to someone with a Hail Driver, which is to freeze about half the crowd. You can now draw the unfrozen enemies away from the frozen ones and effectively fight a much smaller crowd. Do this kind of division until you're left with a just a few enemies, which are what gunslingers specialize in dealing with safely.
The regular shots will continuously freeze and unfreeze your enemies. In effect, this makes them move towards you slower. You have to understand that freeze is a ridiculously powerful status. It wouldn't be fair for it to spread as easily as other statuses could. This is why I set Shivermist is a top-tier weapon but not most other hazes.
If I was using Alchemers for severeral weeks, perhaps even using a mouse that'd let me aim exactly where I point it, I'm sure it'd become second nature. Think of it as making headshots.
If you are the same oatmonster that played LD with RSS, then you would forgive me for celebrating its downgrade. You were quite the competent bomber and there were many like you. I personally found it somewhat irritating when I engaged in fights with people only to have a bomber come and knock down my team left and right from behind the front line. Of course, I heartily enjoyed it when such bombers were on my team, even to the point where I got myself an RSS just to see how they went. Of course, by my luck, I only had a month or so to enjoy it before OOO made it into a proper bomb.
I can't say that I will miss the old bomb too much, it was a bit OP in LD if the bomber knows how to use it, but it is always a shame to see something go.
Rest in pieces RSS
Reading all of these comments makes me quite sad. I'm not fortunate enough to have been able to have used one of these glorious bombs, but now I feel like there is a hole in SK regarding bomber versatility. As previous posters have stated: gunners have their bomb-like pulsars, sworders have their bomb-like brandishes and gun-like winmillions, and bombers... bombers don't have that crossover anymore. I do hope that the devs bring back this amazing bomb someday, or something like it.
Sincerely,
A now depressed bomber :<
Bombers still have their bomb-like blast bombs, for one.
To the shard bombs I miss so dearly,
/cry
Vanillateddy cries pitifully.
I'll remember you always, and that is why my Radiant Sun Shard will never be anything more then a Radiant Sun Shard, I will never upgrade it, I will never get another type of shard bomb and I will continue to contest the new shard bombs forever in your memory.
Rest in pieces my directional spazzy friend.
You were my whole world, the reason i had a bombing set, and now there is no reason, because you are gone!
/cry
Vanillateddy cries pitifully.
It's about that time of year again!
August 8th has just rolled by, and I thought it would be a great time to celebrate the one year anniversary of the new shards that OOO has given us.
Soon after the update, I sold my two bomber sets and all my bombs due to my RSS being...Patched. I will forever regret that decision, as well as forever hate the patch that led to the murder of all shard bombs. I almost quit, but was dissuaded by the triple varient ticket that i got in return for my precious RSS...I would never have made that trade, no matter how many tickets I could get ifI couldn't recraft it. ~Z
Bombers repent thine wicked dance maneuverability and don yawn cloak of Skoal, of chaos, of gunslingery, for the bombers are for naught but cheap parlor tricks and attempts at very primitive rituals of so-called power.
May the gaping maw have mercy on our beloved saint remi, who professed the genius of growing crystals about singular bomb casings, providing us mortals an attempt at omnipotence in the field.
On a lighter note I can actively annoy and not be threatened in ld, if only because my bombs aren't considered much a threat.
I do believe the removal of the RSS was during the time of my 6-month quittening back in 2011. After seeing some video footage, I do see how it's effective, but why not use the Dark Briar Barrage or modern Deadly Shard Bomb as replacements? Yes, one does piercing but they're as close as you can get. Otherwise I'm just going to throw a "Get over you big babies they're never coming back." out there, if not a /epicfail insertnamehere. Before you ask the VERY FIRST QUESTION that comes to your head, No. I've never had a RSS. If you're a forum stalker you can tell I quit for 6 months back in 2011 after finding out SK was teamed up with SEGA at mid-April. it never ceases to fill me with laughter by seeing people have grief for this little contraption.
The old RSS did a lot of things neither of those two bombs are capable of.
Deadly Shard Bomb in particular is not as well-liked as old RSS because it lacks the damage, coverage and speed of the latter. The latter also didn't have a punishing, poorly-implemented hit limit. This is all ground that's been threaded back and forth plenty back when the change happened.
A lot of bombers lament the lack of a source of damage in Lockdown, though I personally was pretty rubbish with the thing there.
If you think the old shards had "mildly decent damage", why do you think these new bombs with literally half the damage per shard were worth it?