Spiral Knights - Have Dark Retribution hit all enemies

Have Dark Retribution hit all enemies

25 replies [Last post]

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 04:04

Bugtester

I have to admit, I was at a loss when using the DR on the Royal Jelly mission. Is there any reason the orbs don't hit the Mini Jellies? I guessed it was a bug, but it's stated on the Wiki, so it seems to be well know. Then again, why is it that it's ok?
Suggestion would be to have the orbs hit every enemy, Pods and Jellies as well.

If there is something I don't see about the DR that would make this completly overpowered, please, share that information.
(This information should not be that the JK himself would be to easy then, because let's be honest, he's a pushover either way.)

EDIT:
The Minis aren't weak to the DR. Or shadow in general. (They take the same dmg from Umbra Driver shots like Lumbers.)
Also, a Mini has about 130-140 HP, while the DR Bolts does about 22 normal dmg. 29 to Jellies that aren't Minis. 22 dmg to ~135 HP sounds acceptable, given the damage of other bombs at that stratum.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 04:28

Hexzyle

-1

Yeah this would make the DR pretty overpowered against those minis. Seeing as it is a shadow bomb and jellies are weak to that...
It's fine with gremlins because gremlins don't swarm you by the hundreds. If you want a good weapon to keep jellies out of your hair, Voltaic Tempest, Ash of Igni, or even better, any Shard Bomb Line (apart from piercing of course) will demolish them, even at only 4 star.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 04:49

Bugtester

The Minis aren't weak to the DR. Or shadow in general. (They take the same dmg from Umbra Driver shots like Lumbers.)
Also, a Mini has about 130-140 HP, while the DR Bolts does about 22 normal dmg. 29 to Jellies that aren't Minis. 22 dmg to ~135 HP sounds acceptable, especially since the bombs you suggested aren't far beneath that with ~15 dmg and also offer a status inflict.

And what about Pods?

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 05:03

Hyiaku

Uhhh.....

Minis are weakest to elemental damage, so just bring along DA or something and your fine. DR is a weapon I own and I only use it in the boss battle and really, I don't see the problem if u keep poisoning the royal jelly and circling him with the DR. I find this subject and suggestion very useless(no offence).

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 05:09

Bugtester

This isn't about how usefulit is, but why it doesn't work at all

I am not saying it should oneshot every enemy, just that it should WORK on every enemy. Which I find is a legitimate request, given there has been money paid to get it.
No offence taken, but you have to admit "just bring your DA" is not helpful in any way when talking about a malfunctioning weapon. That's like argueing "Troika doesn't need a buff, just take a DA or GF". So please do everyone a favor and revisit your comment.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 05:45

Hexzyle

Oh woops, forgot that minis are neutral to all damage except piercing.

I don't know. Maybe to stop people from flattening RJP with Dark Retribution?
Well, it's not like a party of 3 bombers can't already do it with other bombs.
Meh, why the hell not.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 05:50

Wu-Wei

Wait.. what?

Even in a party of 4, it takes me 30 seconds to defeat JK with DR bomb, even if the other people do not attack JK.
So what you want with mini jellies????

Seriously, JK does 1 spin and dies.
As for the levels before JK, the initial blast does enough damage to minis.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:11

Hexzyle

@Xutak

Not really, the initial blast is pretty pathetic compared to the ring damage.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:16

Wu-Wei

@Hexzyle

Compared, anything can be pathetic. Compared to how fast you clear JK levels with DR bomb, this argument about minis is pathetic.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:18

Zeddy

I don't care about the mini jellies, but it would be really nice if the orbs could damage battlepods stuck in walls. It's able to damage battlepods not stuck in walls, so it's clearly a bug of some sort.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:23

#10

Wu-Wei

Personally, I do not use DR in the leves before JK, because it makes it soooo boring, the other players might as well stop fighting and enjoy the orb show. It is just a show-off, overpowered jelly killer.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:45

#11

Juances

Please, DR is as overpowered as acheron charge spam.

Tue, 03/26/2013 - 06:51

#12

Wu-Wei

Acheron

Yeah, and same goes for the Acheron, with too many minis in the way, the charge don't work that well. Its all good, brings a tiny bit of balance back.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 05:00

#13

Bugtester

Honestly, what the hell?

DR has been nerfed to oblivion already and you are telling me, despite most of the forums complaining about how weak it is now, that it is OP? Are you in your right mind? Also, Xutak, you know you could have just posted once, instead of spamming such nonsense. Jelly King actually can eat more DR charges than just twacking him with Archeron or GF.

"Compared to how fast you clear JK levels with DR bomb, this argument about minis is pathetic."
So you are telling the people that paying money is not enough of a reason to have a fully working bomb? Xutak, you are argueing that FIXING the DR would be a bad thing because why exacly?

Edit: Fine, if Thinslayer vows for him/her/it he's not a dimwit - but really, everthing is OP against jellys so that's no arguement.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 07:36

#14

Thinslayer

Careful Yauj

Juances is no dimwit. Her comments on the forums are typically intelligent, from what I've seen.

She is right about the DR being about as OP as the Acheron charge spam, at least in the RJP. It's true in both the serious and joking senses; serious, in that the DR and Acheron charge spams can pretty much clear a room in seconds; joking, in that the DR and Acheron charge spams have a lot of trouble hitting mini-jellies and aren't OP against them at all. The initial blast of the DR and the initial swing of the Acheron's charge are what deal damage to the mini-jellies.

Well, let me make a correction - the Acheron's charge doesn't work *directly* against mini-jellies. If you send the charge slightly off to the side of the jelly, it'll still do its damage. But if you hit the mini-jelly directly, the charge just stops short.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 18:37

#15

Hexzyle

So that means that it's not the DR that's bugged, it's the mini jellies...

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:23

#16

Klipik-Forum

I believe mini jellies are like that on purpose, to counteract the fact that slimes tend to clump up and are extremely vulnerable to AoE attacks.

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 20:37

#17

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

As a bomber who uses Mad Bomber set and has a Bomb dmg trinket... My DR does 110 dmg to normal jellies... I would insta-kill those mini jellies... I find it nice that it has a weak spot but the fact that it hit MULTIPLE (and we are talking 7 to 8 hits with one bombs if it's well placed) times overweight that weak spot...

The DR is a JK ownazor, I don't even think about the mini jellies, I go for JK and get hit by them, getting 1 to 2 hp bar dmg... lol

Thu, 03/28/2013 - 21:43

#18

Hexzyle

Actually, a full party, or even just three bombers would wreck RJP, DR or no DR.

Fri, 03/29/2013 - 05:57

#19

Bugtester

Ok, if Thinslayer holds her that high, I retract that. But my point stands, jellys are weak and pretty much every shadow weapon kills them rather quick. That's why there are so many of them. And as stated by Hexstyle and throughout the entire Thread, JK is killed quite fast with almost any weapon.

It's part the Mini-jellies problem, part the DR mechanic as far as I know. But they have been struggling with the Minis for some time now, given that they have Elemental weakness, but show Shadow weakness when hit with a normal shadow weaon but don't gain additional damage. For some reason they don't even show it on the DR.

I highly doubt Shamanala that his DR does 110 dmg to Jellies in RJP. I actually would go as far to say that I can prove that to be utterly impossible. First, we have the Damage table Spiral Knights Forums, then we have the Screenshot from above, where a normal Jelly suffers 29 Dmg from a DR and finally we have the Ability Section on the wiki. There you can see that the maximum +dmg% is 42%.
Even with full Dmg Bonus you could not even reach 50 damage, let alone more than 100, which would be more than 3 times the original damage.

And because I like number, here some more: The average Jelly has about 300 HP. The DR does 29 Damage. Effective damage at that. A Jelly can stand within the blast area and not be hit by a single orb.
Gran Faust does about 128 - 135 damage on the first and 161 - 170 damage on the second swing.
Archeron does about 115 - 116 damage on the first and second swing and about 141 - 150 damage on the third swing.
I hope that is enough to show that even I am not asking for too much when I say that it should hit everything.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 12:43

#20

Yukimare

mate, theres a reason its not hitting the minis

in case you didn't notice, the DR's orbs fly a little bit over the ground, and the minis just so happen to be small enough to be able to move around under the orbs freely without being hit. IMO, i think it's the green minis being able to get hit being a bug

"I highly doubt Shamanala that his DR does 110 dmg to Jellies in RJP"
with DR doing 110+ to jellies, i don't think he was saying one hit, i think he meant "with one bomb, multiple hits with the orbs"...

"First, we have the Damage table Spiral Knights Forums" (i believe you meant the wiki, that link leads to the main forum page)
the damage table on the wiki only conducts the damage PER HIT, it does not gauge how much damage on average is dealt if all the hits land, not to mention most DRs lack the damage increase UVs, yet still deal quite the beating

"Even with full Dmg Bonus you could not even reach 50 damage"
if you mean just at JKP, i see what you mean, but if you mean at all times.... tisk, tisk, at stratum 6, it comes close enough vs. constructs and beasts, and vs. gremlins and jellies, starting at stratum 5 (just one stratum above JKP), your argument is proven invalid, as at S5, it deals 51-71 damage per hit, and at S6, it deals 77-83 damage per hit. both cases with no UVs or equipment buffs

for the sake of keeping DR from becoming a pure replacement for rock salts and not putting the mini jellies into extention, lets NOT put this buff, in fact, lets fix the green jellies so they cant be hit, DR is powerful enough as it is

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 13:30

#21

Zeddy

"in case you didn't notice, the DR's orbs fly a little bit over the ground, and the minis just so happen to be small enough to be able to move around under the orbs freely without being hit. IMO, i think it's the green minis being able to get hit being a bug"

This person makes an extremely good point that I think we should take into consideration. Please change the topic to "Make mini jellies immune to handguns".

Actually, sword swings are very much above ground too. Mini jellies should only be damaged from explosions, as those are the only attacks that touch the ground.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 14:12

#22

Thunder-The-Bright

don't forget troikas!

their charge smash the ground.
anyway, can't you just use another bomb? you have 2 default weapon slots.

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 15:30

#23

Xenonguard

I dunno 'bout dat Zeddy.

The Autogun line wouldn't spray bullets perfectly at a 90 degree angle. Maybe the Blitz and Plague Needle could hit minis!

Wait you say, jellies are resistant to piercing? Oh well. Let's give the Pepperbox some love!

Sat, 03/30/2013 - 19:28

#24

Hexzyle

@Yauj

...And as stated by Hexstyle...

Sun, 03/31/2013 - 04:28

#25

Bugtester

@Yukimare:
1. He said "I do 110 damage to jellies!" followed by "I'd onehit Minis!" There are not many places where Minis appear, and as he stated "one-hit" in close proximity to "110 Damage", we are likely to assume he meant not "110 dmg a hit". Else the statement about onehitting wouldn't work.
2. Fixed the link, right. Your point is what? The numbers are given there and "deal quite a beating" is an overstatement, when the bomb has to hit at half a dozen times to deal the damage of a sowrd swing.
3. I said "to Jellies in RJP", so how in hell can you not get that this is referring to RJP? THE ENTIRE THING IS ABOUT RJP, from start to beginning, every post, so HOW do you not come to that conclusion?!?

@ Zeddy: +1 That's a great idea and should totally be done. Eeeyup.

Also, Battlepods. Guys, they need some love as well, that they are not hit makes it clear this is a bug and not a "feature"

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Have Dark Retribution hit all enemies