Spiral Knights - combuster or glacius for my uv brandish?

combuster or glacius for my uv brandish?

10 replies [Last post]

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 07:33

Kneller

Ok, I have a UV brandish with medium undead and low construct. I've decided to keep it and go down the elemental brandish line with it. What I'm trying to decide is whether to go with fire or ice. Here's my rationale:

Glacius-
Fighting with a glacius is slower than fighting with a Combuster, as it's strength isn't in damage, but crowd control. Therefore, especially while soloing, placing charges well is more important than spamming them. So, a single well placed charge will freeze something like a gun puppy, then I can circle and follow up with a stronger attack. Or, a single well placed charge will freeze most of the mob. I can leave them, clean up those I missed, and when the freeze breaks, rinse and repeat. Also, Glacius is a little more useful for vana runs.

Combuster-
Combuster relies on dishing out damage. So, the bonus damages make the combuster even more powerful. That's really all I have for this one.

Doesn't matter-
Because the bonus damage is only 14/7%, that equates to one less attack per 8 or 16 (rounded). Big deal. There's not much that takes that many hits. Maybe for boss battles it will matter a little, but otherwise, it just doesn't matter.

Any thoughts?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 08:12

Bopp

lots of thoughts

I discuss this in my sword guide, as you may know. There are some points, that I must emphasize:

In general: Combuster's charge attack does *significantly* more damage than Glacius', because monsters always ride the entire wave of explosions. Also, you can depend on the monsters to be knocked back a great distance. This is a kind of crowd control, that Combuster has and Glacius doesn't!

Specifically in FSC: Glacius is not more useful than Combuster. I have both, and without question I prefer Combuster in FSC. The fact that most enemies ignore Combuster's fire doesn't matter, because its charge attack still does huge damage, with big, predictable knockback. Think of Combuster without fire as the same thing as an elemental Acheron --- which is great.

I'm not saying that Glacius is bad. If you want to play with a careful, deliberate style --- which is useful if you're learning FSC --- then Glacius is great. I just don't want you to discount Combuster's charge attack for the wrong reasons.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 08:17

Juances

A well placed full charge with the follow-up 2-hit combo will obliterate the turret before it can charge a new attack anyways, rendering the freeze useless for that purpose.

As for freezing in general, I always found it unnecesary. I never find a mob so hard so that I need to immobilize it for the kill.
Guess it's mattter of taste, but I'd rather back up and dodge a little while they burn/shock than leave them completely frozen.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 08:36

Kneller

As always, good advice, Bopp.

As always, good advice, Bopp. And, Juances, you make some valid points. Only have a minute to respond, but I'll come back to this later tonight.

I've been thinking about status effects, and I always figured that, at least when soloing, freeze is handier than fire in practice. With a freeze attack, you can leave enemies in place and wait for the freeze damage to kick in. With fire, you're usually still engaged with the enemy and likely drop them before fire actually runs it's course. So even if freeze damage is less, you're likely getting more out of it.

The fact that enemies ride the lightning with combuster charges is a plus in its favor. I'm assuming no other brandishes have this effect. But, if that's the combuster's signature strength, then how does it compare to the DA, which has the same effect (and better crowd control for basic attacks, as well). This is kind of a departure from the original topic, but considering this element of the discussion (no pun intended), it seems that Combuster/DA is a more interesting and relevant comparison than Combuster/Glacius.

Side note, what I would like to see is data not just on DPS, but also on hits to kill various enemies. I think in a lot of ways, it's just as important. However, I'm pretty sure that info is not out there currently.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 08:41

Zeddy

Glacius will freeze up enemies, while Combuster's charge won't. This matters because Combuster will not only damage enemies extra due to the fire, but also due to making enemies "ride" your explosions and take extra damage from the charge itself. This is also of relevance in Firestorm Citadel.

CTR on a Combuster will increase damage by a lot. On Glacius it will let you unleash your charge faster. You may not always wish to do so, but that doesn't make it useless.

I like fire and freeze equally. Both in general and in this game. When using fire, you use your attack until you enemy catches fire, then you run away and set something else on fire. Doing this lets you play evasively while maximizing damage output on the crowd in general. You can do something similar with freeze, where you only fight enemies you haven't frozen, but you can also just use the status to move behind your frozen target and unleash hell on them.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 09:05

Bopp

Combuster vs. Divine Avenger

Comparing Combuster-without-fire to DA is reasonable. Here are some pros of each.

Combuster:
Higher single-target DPS in regular attacks.
Faster charging (21 vs. 18.5 per minute).
Faster movement while charging (full speed vs. about 80% speed).
Charges work, even if your back is against a wall.

Divine Avenger:
Better width and length in regular attacks.
More knockback in regular attacks.
Wider charge (three projectiles vs. one).
More damage on charge swing (682 vs. 613) and projectiles (190 vs. 166).

Spamming charges is not as easy with DA as it is with Combuster, although the charges do big damage when you pull them off. Basically, Combuster's ideal play style is: Spam charges, and then do regular attacks to finish off a couple of stragglers. DA's ideal play style (at least for me) is: Combo into a crowd of undead or constructs, damaging and interrupting all of them until they die.

I know that you wanted not DPS but something like strokes-per-kill (SPK) or kills-per-second (KPS). But this is hard to evaluate, because monster health varies with depth, party size, what your teammates are doing, etc. There are a couple of projects underway to measure monster health systematically. Once they are complete, we should have a much better idea of SPK or KPS.

One thing I can say is: In FSC, my Combuster usually kills several zombies with one charge, while my Glacius usually doesn't.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:03

Putkinen

Ice ice baby.

Glacius is the better choice for that blade. They'll eventually nerf the Brandish line by removing the charge knockback and replace the swing with a backstep swing to prevent shieldbumping to get around that or something of the sort and the option of crowd control would likely be more useful for a slow charging blade than infrequent AoE with Fire. Basic damage bonuses are better obtained from your coat and with even minimal bonuses, you'll already be oneshotting wolvers with the current mechanics so if you want to use the charge for AoE damage, you really should spend the 100k on a CTR Medium Brandish and upgrade that instead. It feels so much better, trust me.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 15:24

Bopp

Kneller, in case that post confuses you, Putkinen is making stuff up. (Right, Putkinen?) But he/she is right that big CTR is the ideal UV on a Brandish, and that damage bonuses are better obtained through armor and trinkets, because they then affect all targets. But we have already discussed that, in your other thread. So don't be deterred from continuing on your path.

Putkinen, Kneller is trying to get his first set of 5-star stuff. He doesn't have a lot of resources to get the ideal equipment. Don't you agree that he should just get something decent, start earning more money, and then work on better stuff?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 17:36

Kneller

Well, I strongly get the

Well, I strongly get the impression that CTR is prime, ASI is a somwhat close second, everything else is whatever. That being said, I'm probably better off selling the thing for 20-40k and use the funds to get my other sword (Nightblade) to 5*. Then, if I come across a decent brandish, I can buy it. Or they're actually pretty cheap to craft. At only 50 energy, I can mist craft to my heart's content as long as I have the mats. The nightblade is probably a better investment anyway, as I'll be doing RJP runs for quite a while, I expect. Anyone disagree?

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 18:53

Terra-Necro

I still think that combuster

I still think that combuster is a more viable weapon than acheron (nightblade 5*) in RJP sadly. The fire status is more handy with the enemies and killing the boss.

Thu, 04/04/2013 - 19:27

#10

Zeddy

@Putkinen
"you really should spend the 100k on a CTR Medium Brandish and upgrade that instead"

Or you could spend 100k on crafting an entire Chaos Set, which would let you have CTR max, Damage Very High for absolutely everything. Negative stat penalties don't really matter anything when you're charging your weapon in one second flat.

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combuster or glacius for my uv brandish?