Well, it's kind of annoying that this game has an exploration limit - Mist. So, I was thinking this game shouldn't have Mist fore several reasons, even though I know why it exists in-game. The first main reason is that this game is amazing in so many aspects - from the weaponry to the graphics - but then you face the ultimate limit to the exploration - Mist. I know it's there so that the game kind of pushes you to purchase Crystal Energy, but its Kongregate rating decreased mainly for that reason. See, when you have a game as epic as this one and you face that kind of limit, you do get pretty annoyed. Even with the Coliesum, which only requires Crowns, can get a little annoying because your still losing something that was technically worth a certain amount of Mist. Another problem were services in the game itself, like Unbinding and Alchemizing, which are technically what make this game what it is. Without them, knights wouldn't be able to trade there weapons freely.
In the end, the whole point was checking how many other knights agree with this idea - removing The Mist Limit - or other wise increasing the max Mist capacity to what I was thinking of 500, or reducing the Mist costs for the different services.
If you seriously remove mist in the next patch, then this game will certainly receive a 5* rating.
Knight Jzrox (via Adamfz, because I play through Kongregate).
The Mist Limit
Then maybe the developers should outsource their work to other people and get second jobs? Make Spiral Knights open source. Or is that all this is for? Money?
is 2 different things removing mist tank
"So, I was thinking this game shouldn't have Mist fore several reasons"
"but then you face the ultimate limit to the exploration - Mist."
or increasing its size even further
"removing The Mist Limit - or other wise increasing the max Mist capacity to what I was thinking of 500, or reducing the Mist costs for the different services."
the 1st part got me thinking. many items would be priced by their actual value and u could CE craft without big loss. i cant think of any substitute for f2p tho
the 2nd part sounds like it would kind of destroy the market i think
in any case, looking at ppls reactions, i dont think game needs yet another major change
move to suggestions
Design choice I guess. It is possible to allow players to play infinitely but that would require a rework of the entire game which would be too big for OOO compared to the extra profit they can get out of it.
I just wish there was something to do which doesn't cost energy or crowns.
The system isn't perfect, but it's not bad. As soon as you get midway through the game (around the Sovereign Slime mission), you can enter a positive-feedback loop, where you earn crowns faster than you spend energy. At that point, you can play as much as you want, forever. It's a really generous system.
But you are right that beginning players can't exploit this feedback loop, and may be put off by the mist energy system, and not last long enough in the game to reach unlimited play.
we could remove energy for elevators *shields from tomatos* and remove loot from the floors in which you don't spend energy. if you want only to explore, that is what you need. obviously, missions wouldn't have this possibility.
You should move this thread over to the Suggestions category of the forums, and let them tea- er, discuss it
I knew this topic would gain popularity quickly. But in reply to Knight Bopp, the idea isn't just about crowns. Even though you reach the point when you can depend on Coliesum, you still need the Clockworks for rares like Tokens, and services. Like I said previously, in-game services like Unbinding and Alchemizing consume a large amount of Mist and C-Energy. I also explained how these factors affect in-game trade, like the Auction House. Buying weapons saves a lot of Mist and C-Energy. Therefore, in my opinion, I think that removing this kind of limit will attract more players.
But instead, Three Rings can add more exclusive items for C-Energy, therefore making people still important to buy C-Energy. Also there are currently things in-game like Trinket Slots, Extra Weapon Slots, and Extra Missions like "Operation Crimson Hammer" which are exclusive to people who pay the game (and I need to mention the Elevator Pass, but since it's Mist related, I didn't expand on that.) So if they can maybe expand on both Free-to-Play and Pay-to Play features in-game.
Hopefully Game-Masters will read this and suggest it to Three Rings.
Knight Jzrox (via Adamfz, because I play through Kongregate).
jzorox, if you remove mist, prices of ce will go high. that will separate even more paying players from non-paying ones. even nerfing loot from clockworks would destroy the economy due to recipe prices. so it's a no-go.
But in reply to Knight Bopp, the idea isn't just about crowns....Unbinding and Alchemizing consume a large amount of Mist and C-Energy...But instead, Three Rings can add more exclusive items for C-Energy, therefore making people still important to buy C-Energy.
Your argument doesn't make sense to me. Crowns and CE are fungible. You can exchange one for the other. So, yes, it does all come down to crowns.
Also, there is no reason to spend CE on unbinding, or on Three Rings' "exclusive items". These things are luxuries, completely unnecessary to the game. But you're right that alchemizing is essential to the game, and expensive. This has been complained about in countless threads over multiple years. If alchemizing weren't expensive, then people would craft all of the items and exhaust their interest in the game very rapidly. Players need a slow sense of progress, to keep playing.
The whole point of mist is to limit the amount of supplies a person gets (and to get a life). See, Spiral Knights links to a whole Steam trading deal, worth real money. If OOO were to remove the mist system, then either
1) Prices of everything from armor inside the game to items in other games would go up MASSIVLY.
2) Everyone would be rich, which would possibly result in 1)
It all has to do with the economy. Even if you are a light trader or doesn't Steam trade, things will change.
I agree with Thunder about CE prices. Those would probably go X10 in the pricing, which leads to even more farming, which leads to bored people who will quit. Even if we do increase the mist tank to 500(probably going to be lower), we still need CE to get an entire set of 4 star and up. Farming is boring as taking a dump in a junkyard, and people will get bored if they have to farm so much.
Mist Energy is too deep into the game's framework to mess with. I keep saying--more expansion missions PLEASE.
Well, I kind of get the infinite play loop idea, where you make an average of 8500 crowns per 100 Mist, trade in C-Energy, win 1500 Crowns and then go for another clockworks spree. But newbies will take a little too long to reach that point, and most of them (including a friend of mine) left the game with no hope to actually advance. So I now understood Bopp's idea, but I'm going to talk about, like I said, how newbies leave the game for this reason of "slow progress." People actually leave games when they begin to progress slowly. Three Rings needs to think about this. I do realize the game supplies "Mist Tanks" every-now-and-then, but at a rate slower than required.
And now I also have a list of ideas three rings could use instead of Mist:
-You could remove it until newbies reach Rank 6-1, when they get at least 3* weaponry and armor and successfully defeated two bosses.
-Make more C-Energy exclusive items.
-Replace it with Crowns (and get free Crowns daily).
And the best idea I have:
-Make Spiral Knights contain an INFINITE story-line where you somehow discover other planets, repair your pod (Remember the Recruit Camp?), and manage to travel through an INFINITELY diverse universe!!! (with Mist replaced with Crowns).
If you combine theses ideas, Spiral Knights will still get credit, and players will enjoy even more.
Knight Jzrox (via Adamfz, because I play through Kongregate).
Infinite universe- No the games focus is on Cradle, nowhere else, we haven't even opened the core yet
CE exclusive items- No, because that'd handicap F2P's even more.
Free crowns- I could abuse that all I wanted, I have at least 6 other alts, so I could practically not even farm Vana
If they implemented any of these, I'd see some major complaints/problems from the community. The mist is like stamina for other games, it gives you a stopping point, while still allowing you to be able to get more.
dude, that is another game.
removing mist is a no-go. at least until you can do an alt and bring it with you.
making more ce items won't do a thing because there are f2p guys with over 10k ce.
replace with crowns ce? how?
no free rewards, same thing as the mist removal. also, you get a reward for doing nothing but log on.
there is no infinite storyline like that and it cannot be because of the limit of computers. make something with infinite RAM and then you can do anything. every single game that "has no end" is looped with reborns. and boredom is cured with PvP.
Just think of a mist tank as a time limit to how long players can play the game each day so they don't get addicted and miss out on school work/job stuff.
If that's what it's for, it doesn't work too well. :P
Neither does Adamfz idea, "Let's destroy the pixelated economy, Hooray!"
To be fair, it isn't very hard to destroy this game's economy
I just wanted to do ^
Back on topic, at first I didn't like the mist system.I wanted to play more, but couldn't because I wanted to be f2p.BUT, as time went on, I got used to it and went on my merry way.The mist system is seen as a "half full/half empty" scenario.Some people will like it, some people won't.
@light: no, all you need is billions of crowns or hundreds of thousands of CE. So if you do screw up the economy, you probably get banned and OOO probably made a lot of money somewhere along the way. Double-win for them.
@Hero: In my experience, people think of it as 3/4 full or completely empty.
Will people enjoy the game more without the mist system? Probably.
Will the game continue to exist for long after the mist system's removal? Probably not.
No matter how epic is the game, developers need money.