Am I the only one that doesn't want Spiral Knights to be more difficult? I find it challenging enough as it is, especially the fiend family.
Please discuss.
Spiral Knights difficulty
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 10:07
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 10:27
#2
On any game or anything, each person has different skills. What's hard for one is easy for another.
But particulary in SK, a brandish charge with skolver kills anything so it's easy. Requires minimun effort.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:05
#3
I agree
"On any game or anything, each person has different skills. What's hard for one is easy for another."
Practice makes perfect!
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 11:43
#4
SK will get naturally more
SK will get naturally more difficult after d28. Have you played an arcade run at d28 aside from vana? The health is insane there. I think the main reason OOO is so hesitant in releasing more d28+ content is because of people like you making it difficult to scale d28+ gameplay.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:00
#5
@Bopp
The fiend family is my worst nightmare (though I don't have nightmares... you know what I mean), and I would be happy if they were considerably easier than they are, even after the most recent "nerf".
Personally, I am unable to dodge an attack from 1 fiend (the throw attacks), let alone a mob of fiends that are very common to find your self in the middle of. I have played over and over in T1 levels trying hone my dodge of their projectiles, with very little success. I will openly admit, I have not played against T3 fiends since the "nerf", as I avoid T3 fiends like the plague. I hate them, and they make me want to stop playing this fantastic game.
Most enemy types I don't have a lot of trouble with. Some are harder than others, and some kill me from time to time. But I have died 75% more to fiends than any other monster family. I'm not the best SK player, by a long shot, but I have a pretty good collection of 5* gear, and I still can't stand fiends.
If your option C. is accurate, then OOO is bringing changes that have been falsely encouraged by the community. Perhaps more people than we realize shares the opinion that fiends are hard enough as is, if not a little too hard.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:09
#6
But particulary in SK, a
But particulary in SK, a brandish charge with skolver kills anything so it's easy. Requires minimun effort.
This is part of the problem. Another part is that people won't use "bad" equipment: why play the game with the worst gear when you can play it with the best? Do people automatically shy away from giving themselves a challenge, and ask the devs to foist it on everyone, including the people who'd be scared away?
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:19
#7
When I started this game, in June 2011, it was a fun game. I was drawn in by the non-intrusive free-to play model, the art style, and the combat. But I didn't really think I would stay for long. I ended up taking a two-month break, since it was the summer and I found different things to do besides sit inside all day. When I came back, there was new stuff like Shadow Lairs that I looked forward to. But most of all, I looked up SK on Youtube and found Magnus's various T3 exploits. That was incredibly exciting to me (coming from a background of mostly flash-gaming sites) - A game where in the endgame, the weapons were more powerful, but the enemies were even more powerful. That the game actually got harder as you got more powerful stuff.
So I kept playing, I ground my way through to 3*, getting Dusker because I already had gotten Wolver and because of LD. (btw, I had a wolver/tsb loadout before LD existed. It was OP even then.) This was also before missions, so I had to grind the actual arcade. Then missions came out, and I could grind faster... and I just kind of didn't for a whole nother year. In the last three months I made my transition from 3* to 5*, and what did I find when I reached Vanguard rank? FSC is mind-numbingly easy, and Brandishes let you kill pretty much everything in one or two charges. That's why I turned to PvP early on, because human opponents are always more of a challenge. Remember that dream I had of a challenging endgame? That was gone, because brandishes and Blitzes suddenly got 10x better and nothing was a challenge anymore.
So to answer your question: No, you aren't the only person. But the mission system and the weird progression curve of this game tends to throw people into T3 before they're really ready for it. For me and other veterans, you play the game enough you can break it down into its core elements. And then you realize the levels are repetitive, the enemies are dumb, and if you die it's usually because you weren't paying attention. We aren't necessarily asking for the whole game to be made harder, but to give the actual endgame players an actual challenge.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 12:42
#8
la poirée.
la poirée.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:21
#9
@Ayiw
Might I remind you this is the English language forums. If you are going to post in another language I suggest that you create a new topic and post that in the different language subforums. Thank you!
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:27
#10
@Yvanblo
Trouble with fiends? Try using shard bombs.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:28
#11
Good points
I've played for over 600 hours, so I'm not new to this game (I achieved Dauntless delver solo in 4* gear (it was not through FSC!)). I think I see part of my problem though, I have:
SWORDS:
Acheron
Combuster
Dark Thorn Blade
Divine Avenger
Warmaster Rocket Hammer
GUNS:
Polaris
Biohazard
Silversix
Blackhawk
BOMBS:
Ash of Agne
Venom Viler
Voltaic Tempest
Shivermist Buster
Dark Retribution
Graviton Vortex
HELMETS:
Black Kat cowl
Vog Cub cap
ARMOR:
Grey Feather mantle
Dread Skelly suit
SHIELDS:
Grey Owlite
I'm going into fiend area's without proper shadow resist, and perhaps without proper fiend killing tools. My Dread Skelly and Black Kat cowl don't seem to do much to help soften the blows. What am I missing to make them easier, and don't say learn how to dodge... that's just not part of my play style, and I've tried repeatedly to learn. But how much does it help when 6 devilites throw junk at me at the same time, while another 3 swing their axes at me?
FSC is agreeably too easy in a lot of parts. To say it's a walk in the park is a bit arrogant, since if you take the wrong route, the button that leads to the right path for example (you know, the one where you choose the left of right team button), things get tough pretty quick.
I have a combuster, which yes, it's very powerful, but I don't normally have time to charge it against fiends... they smack (almost)every time before I can complete the charge, and then I die. Bombs are right out, since the same thing applies but to a much more severe penalty. Bear in mind, 1-3 fiends are not that big a deal, but the common theme in fiend floors is to stick you in the middle of ~15 of them with spikes all around.
Agreed, the jump from T2 to T3 is a tough one, and to make matters worse fiends are front and center as soon as you get there. I was stuck for a long time on a few fiend missions that I would never have passed without the help of some friends.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:42
#12
@Zeddy
I will be buying one of those ASAP! Which shard bomb is that? What is the best shard bomb for fiends and general use?? Actually, I'll probably use my alts to find a good CTR uv, and then make it into a 5*.
However, I have to point out... it only took ~3 hits to almost end your life (that hit at 12:34 took off ~9 bars). Admit it, in the middle around 12:34, you were concerned there for a minute that you were about to die.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:45
#13
Huh... you might want to try
Huh... you might want to try either helmet, Dread Skelly Suit, the Dark Thorn Blade and either the Polaris or Silversix (or both). Using that list, it's probably the best Loadout to get rid of them. You might want to get a Shadow resist shield, though.
It's just some advise, and you don't have to take it from me (especially considering the fact I consider most, if not all piercing weapons to be scrap)
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:50
#14
Hint: spam polaris in random directions while running around. Focus on dodging, not on aiming.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 13:59
#15
@Yvanblo
In the video I was using Splinter Bomb, but if you're not wearing Mad Bomber or Chaos I recommend Sun Shards. The reason I was at any time 3 hits away from death is because I was using Mad Bomber. It has poor normal defence and no shadow defence at all.
My preferred way to kill fiends are:
-Kiting with piercing shards.
-Running around between them spamming Dark Briar Barrage.
-Callahan auto-aimed after dodging from a distance.
-Snipe away with Callahan charge from a distance.
The most important thing you do with fiends is you dodge before you attack. They have a cooldown between each time they attack. If there's just too many of them, kite using guns or bombs. Dodging is not hard; you simply run sideways relative to the enemy you're dodging.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 14:06
#16
Stay in T1
God damn casuals.
Fri, 04/26/2013 - 21:16
#17
Over the past week I've been running the Gauntlet mission a bunch just to get away from FSC. (btw does it pay as much?) the first level is a devilite city one, and guess what I found out when partying in PUGs? Shiver+Blitz>Devilites. If you freeze them all, they can't use their deadly tracking and you're free to charge up and blast them away. Works best in parties.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 02:52
#18
With Devilites you can try
With Devilites you can try separating them and pick them off one by one. Greavers too. Charging into a mob of fiends isn't a good idea.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:04
#19
Agree with the OP
I hate, hate, hate the new compound levels. They degree of difficulty FOR WHAT YOU GET is too high. Move the compound levels out of the arcade and into there own mission section.
I'm a mostly a solo player. And the new compound levels with their poorly thought out infinitely spawning mini-monsters make me not want to waste my time in the arcades anymore (with there already ever decreasing payouts.) The difficulty increase, from depth 7 to depth 9 with a compound is ludicrously high.
Now before you all jump in and tell me how much I must suck - well I don't. I can run just about all of fsc solo, with out dying - (not vana himself), and have little difficulty soloing all the other boss runs. If I want a solid challenge, I'll run danger missions with my guild, I'll go to the shadow gates! The arcade is where I go to grind, and if grinding isn't fun - why the hell should I bother? As in why should I bother PAYING to play a game that isn't fun?
Seriously, If I just want to do vana runs with my guild a few times a day, then the 100 free mist is just fine.
No, I don't want this game to get harder - hard is what the shadow gate is for, hard is what the danger rooms & danger missions are for, get the god damn mini-monster levels out of the arcade.
And for those of you who want to argue that the game should get tougher, I'll tell you want the devs already know: The game had not been getting the steady influx in newer players that it did prior to the new UI patch: AH prices is low star items are bottoming out. Fewer new players means a dying game, players getting stomped on in an F2P tier 2 arcade run, are just going to stop playing, especially when he/she realizes how LOW arcade payouts are.
The summer patch is going to be the battle spirits, designed to function very well for solo players - in the compounds. And that's the next hope for keeping the game alive. But we all know that'll be another sink, and as is - the game as far too many sinks.
Pull that compounds out of the arcade - period. Stop discouraging solo play.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:28
#20
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
@Theghostcat
Either you are a liar or you are a liar. If you can play FSC easily, then why are you having issues in T2??
This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard for a while. If they really are a big problem, craft a bomb.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 07:35
#21
@Theghostcat
Try crafting a bomb or wearing defensive armour.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 08:07
#22
my 2 cents
The game is hard when facing certain mobs with inappropriate gear....
The game is easy when facing certain mobs with appropriate gear and decked out UV...
Go figure...
*poke with stick*
"it does nothing"
---------------------
*drops a nuke*
"sheesh, put up a fight will ya? Buff please!!"
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 08:47
#23
@Sham
More like, take away our nukes please.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:02
#24
Ya know
Youtube has videos of people running Shadow Lairs solo. Go search on google.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:07
#25
Devillites?
They ARE pretty deadly, but look on the brighter side. Some pit bosses can help you, so don't kill the pit bosses that promote yesmen. Howevver, dont kill the pit boss in the end, or those yesmen will kill you. devillites have a minimal amount of HP, so a gun, preferrably Magnus line, can easily take them down. Nother way is go commando style, because devillites are very easy to knock down, so a combo of that and low HP means that they are vurnuable to dmg. This might not work for you, but for me, offense is the best defense.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 09:49
#26
@Autofire
And you're the exact kinda OOO worshiping player I was talking about.
I didn't say tier 2 was the (or my) problem. I said the new compounds in tier 2 are the problem. And I didn't say I couldn't play them, I said I hated them - and by extension don't want to play them, because they are too difficult for their strata (you know, moron, where are your 3-5* weapons and gear are gimped by the game). So get off your high horse, and add constructive criticism that seems to imply you've actually played the game.
Having a level that does: shadow, normal, piercing and elemental damage FROM MONSTERS -AT TIER 2 is retarded. Then add infinitely spawning minis and its annoying as hell. Annoying + bad level = people don't play = game loses player retention. Its not that hard to figure out.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:20
#27
@Theghostcat
Most T2 players only have one type of defense and 1~2 types of weapons, so putting multiple families in a depth doesn't make all that difference if they are doing arcade runs (where they will meet a lot of monster's families one way or another). Plus, the minis were made so that bombs have a purpose, have you actually used a bomb against them? It makes them ridiculously easy, or even a calibur if you're soloing can do a pretty great job.
Oh, and another thing... It looks like you don't know about the missions update, the arcade isn't the main focus of the game for almost a year, it isn't profitable for that much time and compounds certainly aren't the cause, most people don't even know that it exists until they reach end game and get bored of missions, trying to find another thing to do.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 10:41
#28
Shamanala has got my view of
Shamanala has got my view of the majority's mindset about the game difficulty quite nicely there.
/reply Theghostcat: insulting Autofire isn't going to help, despite the fact his post didn't exactly imply he read it properly. As he and Zeddy said though, try using bombs, or you could use heavy swords, if you're a swordsman. Don't worry about using "Ineffective" weapons against the minis, they don't have the health for you to do that. Troikas and Nitronomes might help best.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:15
#29
These things really don't have a lot of health. With a very high damage bonus, stratum 5 grave scarabs die to Gran Faust in one hit even in a full party.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 11:28
#30
Hard?
You guys do know there were people playing this game BEFORE weapon BUFFS and monster NERFS? There were plenty of pros at that time being able to breeze through the hard parts through practice and experience.. (lets go a little further and add Strategy -GASP-). Why do they keep making this game easier? I agree with Klipik that people are whining more recently because they might be thrown into t3 before they are actually prepared for it.
You know the arcade days? we focused on the gates that had t3 monsters that were appropriate for our gear.. see that there were t3 fiends in that gate? we avoided it and went to an easier t3 gate such as wolvers or jellies.
So the problem right now seems that these kids want to rush through the missions and whenever they face a hard mission they prolly want to nerf the monsters in those missions to make it easier to deal with.. This is a game guys, it is kinda meant to be casual with the 100 mist a day and all.. Just take it slow, make the appropriate gears and learn a thing or two from the monsters that whooped ur butt.. and PLS buff back the monsters already.. or make a Tier 4.
Sat, 04/27/2013 - 21:48
#31
Dragonicblaze nailed it right on the head
"You know the arcade days? we focused on the gates that had t3 monsters that were appropriate for our gear.. see that there were t3 fiends in that gate? we avoided it and went to an easier t3 gate such as wolvers or jellies."
I remember those days. Those were the good old days. Anyway I digress.
You are 100% with this. People don't play the arcade enough, thus the issue. The missions are to hard for their gear, and rather than get new gear since it's so time consuming, they want things nerfed so they can beat it easier.
OOO Please see this with us, and help the arcade get its draw back. Your starting out well with the minis/compounds, and soon the battle sprites. Keep this up, and maybe even a boss without a mission to draw us all back in. Missions are good, however the training ground is the arcade, and we need it strong and a draw.
Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:30
#32
@Flynnerik
Aye. Thank you for your support ^_^
Sun, 04/28/2013 - 09:31
#33
X_X
Twas a twin, this one sadly didn't make it through.
Sun, 04/28/2013 - 10:07
#34
...
As for mini-monsters, just ignore them. They are easy to dodge and don't drop anything. What exactly is the problem?
Fiends were nerfed a few weeks ago. Are you saying that the new fiend difficulty level is appropriate? Or that the old level was appropriate? Anyway, there are fundamentally three things going on, that lead players to say that Spiral Knights should be harder:
A. As you play the game more and more (memorizing the spawn points, etc.), the game gets easier --- less of a challenge.
B. As you acquire better and better equipment, the game gets easier. (In some sense, the game should be designed in the opposite way, to compensate for A.)
C. Some people like to brag, and proclaiming that the game should be harder is a form of bragging.