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Fix it ! Fix it ! (new mechanics too)

17 replies [Last post]
Sun, 05/05/2013 - 04:51
Atholl's picture
Atholl

Hi again everybody Atholl here with new suggestions this time around i will try to fix armors and weapons that are underpowered (to the general opinion) :

SETS:

Cobalt:
Yes evryone knows that cobalt is outclassed by the Royal jelly/Ice queen/Ironmight set in terms of defense and by the Skolver set in terms of power and status resistance; so how to fix it without making the other four useless ?
I was thinking about adding the status resistance of low on all status for both pieces thus will provide more survivability while still having less specialized defense

Fallen:
Shadow defense with a very high penality on one, out of two, of the monsters families that deals shadow damage? might works on levels whith only undeads on it but everyone knows that fiends and undeads gets along very well so i'm proposing a little buff on the already existent asi taking it to Medium from Low and increasing a little the shadow defense.

Ancient Plate:
Highest normal defense, health +3 on both pieces and stun resistance is good but not enough in T3 where hard hitting monsters and pure non-normal damage dealers lives, i say that this set should be even more tankier by reducing the damages taken by 10% on each piece resulting in preventing 1/5 of every incoming damage types (but since it is a % reduction monsters can always damage you).

SHIELDS:

Aegis:
Same problem as cobalt line and even if it hurts me a lot....... same solution (i fear that all this accumulation of status resistances are beginning to be a little OP)

Heater shield:
many people say the heater shield is underpowered etc. but it combines the freeze status resist usually found in the skelly line with the defensive power of the owlite shield, the only modification that i possibly make here is that if you are freezed, uppon shielding you break free from freeze.

Ancient plate:
talking about T3 this shield is almost useless, i think that this shield needs to bee a team buffing adding additional normal defense on other shields on your team.

WEAPONS:

BOMBS:

Big angry bomb :
The big angry bomb it's not wieldly used because the nitronome does the same job better, you will hear many people whine about being slow charging with a long fuse time but that's it , that's what makes it differ so much from the nitronome so without changing
the cons. let's see the buffs : i feel that a simple buff on the area of damage and damage output should be enough

Irontech destroyer :
slow charging speed , small radius normal damage and slow walking speed.... man that's what i call underpowered even with the chance of stun (that by the way the big angry bomb already have) isn't a vailable weapon (not because it doesn't deal damage or it isn't any usefull , just because some bombs do the job better).
So what to do ? Since nitronome and big angr bomb have rispectively: fast charge and high damages.
The only thing left is the fuse time so what about not giving it any ? Meaning that in the moment you relase it, it immediately detonates.

Heavy deconstructor :
studied for countering constructs , many bombs do the yob better,
fast fix : take it to 5* make it elemental damaging take the bonus from high to very high against constructs.

For now that's all i will add more once i will get more time to write it, as for now i'd like to hear your opinions about it.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 06:32
#1
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Low defense against a status is almost the same as nothing. Pick 3 and boost them to medium instead.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 07:35
#2
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
"Ancient plate: talking about

"Ancient plate: talking about T3 this shield is almost useless,"

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Maybe if you'd actually spend the time to practice with the Ancient Plate Shield you'll find that it's an outstanding piece of equipment.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:38
#3
Atholl's picture
Atholl
@Hexzyle Yes of course the

@Hexzyle
Yes of course the ancient set is good for it's normal defense and........., yeah is that good that you see it on everyone nowdays (seriously though how many times have you seen that shield on other people ?).
I say it's useless because of it's lack of specialized defense.

@Little-Juances
It's a boost on survivability not a situational one, also count it as a filler-buff until OOO decides to do something about it.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:39
#4
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Atholl

Popularity ≠ Usefulness

I say it's useless because of it's lack of specialized defense

What good is specialized defense when there's a Trojan cornering you, or you're up against a Dreadnought, Slag Guard, or just about any other status-less monster that's just about to sink its claws/teeth/extremely-heavy-object into your face?

If this is your logic, then why doesn't everyone (who isn't using a SSB or BTS) use a Dragon Scale Shield?

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 10:35
#5
Exerpa's picture
Exerpa
Cobalt is costume. So

Cobalt is costume. So increase the crafting cost and make is suddenly disappear from your Helm/Armor inventory and appear in the costume section. Seems to work well enough for Almirian Crusader, at least everyone knows that's for show.

But more seriously, the Fallen buff is something I too have been thinking over recently.

Remove the global ASI low, replace it with Sword ASI med and Gun ASI med - no bomber ASI this time (I'll leave it to the SK scientists to debate bomb asi). Now to explain why:

The closest relative to Fallen is Valkyrie. Suppose you delete the Fallen ASI for a moment and understand that the fire/curse resists are equal and opposite (cancelling each other out) then the difference between Fallen and Valkyrie parts is a huge 4 points of fiend damage. Assuming you have noticed that "Damage Bonus Vs. X : Medium" seems to be valued by the gear designers as the same as any kind of weapon medium buff, you can therefore substitute the missing Fiend Med into Sword ASI Med without upsetting the equation. Now that you have done that, you might as well redeem the additional negative fiend Med into Gun ASI med too.

zOMG too overpowered? For fighting fiends, then this shadow gear has a 2x Very High damage nerf compared to Valkyrie in exchange for a pair of Very High speed buffs. For fighting undeads, Fallen's curse weakness is totally incapacitating for well over a minute. The only problem is that curse is far rarer than it could (should?) be and if you plan to use this in PvP, then getting hit by the second swing of a Faust may force you to return to base (my own feelings are that the Faust should be able to curse on both swings).

Personally I feel Chaos should have taken this route, but you can't put the genie back into the bottle. Still, if the Chaos class is allowed to exist, why not a Fallen class?

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:00
#6
Atholl's picture
Atholl
@Hexzyle

The only normal damaging deadnaughts are the two spawning alongside Vana during his 5th phase.

Trojans attack buff it's pure shadow damage and the charge is split shadow/normal.

Of course shield use normal defense to counterpart the split damages from monsters (you'll only get 2 different specialized defenses if the monsters in that level deal more than one type of damage excluding normal and deal more pure damage than the split one) i'm just sayng that is better have a specialized shieldthan a pure normal one.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:06
#7
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Atholl

All Trojan attacks (check the wiki) deal partial (leaning towards mostly) normal, (and the slam so much so that the Ancient Plate Shield doesn't even lose a fifth of its health to it) and so does essentially every single other enemy in the game with the exception of turrets. By rule of thumb Dreadnaughts should, but they might be bugged like Gremlin Thwackers.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:06
#8
Atholl's picture
Atholl
@Hexzyle

If you are reasoning this way around you may like the Omega shell.
And trojans are my last problem when i'm in a level filled with zombies or delilites that trow things around.
Also sorry i edited again my answer.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:06
#9
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Atholl

I change my comments shortly after writing them too, it's a bad habit.

I'm bringing this up because although specialized shields are better than Ancient Plate or Omega, not everyone can afford to craft a 5 star shield for each damage type. Also, with the added Compound levels (where quite a few monster families appear) these shields are even more useful.

It's the same reason why people still use normal damage weapons: Versatility.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:09
#10
Atholl's picture
Atholl
@Hexzyle

PEACE , finally we came to an agreement.
however stay turned i'll expand the original post whenever i can get more time.

Sun, 05/05/2013 - 11:14
#11
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
lol

It's the same reason why people still use normal damage weapons: Versatility

I shoulda said this from the start

BTW Heater Shield is fine. People don't usually craft it though since it's bit of a wonky upgrade path (the damage resistance changing, I'm referring to) and most people don't even know of its existance.
Great against Silversaps and especially useful in Freeze Gremlin/Constsruct Arenas though. (those freeze turrets are horrid)

Mon, 05/06/2013 - 06:02
#12
Atholl's picture
Atholl
Bump.

Added bombs, stay turne for the next updates.

Mon, 05/06/2013 - 11:01
#13
Exerpa's picture
Exerpa
Decon -> elemental is an old

Decon -> elemental is an old obvious suggestion. And there is also an obvious problem with it, that is constructs often hang out with gremlins. I don't know about you but when I go to a decon zone, an elemental damage bomb is not on my list of things to bring. That being said, perhaps change the name from Deconstructor to Decomposer or something smarter because this bomb would be better off used against the Undead.

It is important to notice that merely changing the damage type from normal to something else only gives a damage buff against some monsters in exchange for a much, much larger nerf on others; you therefore need it to offer something the normal version does not. For example Dark Briar Barrage gets around this by removing the knockback that Nitronome has but keeping the same base damage, size and charge time.
More proof of this concept can be seen in Plague vs Pepperbox (longer range, no knockback on charge), Flourish vs Calibur (faster, combo handles a lot better) Rocket Hammer vs Troika (3 hit combo, last swing easier to hit because of the dash), Polaris/Biohazard/Callahan all have status etc.

Mon, 05/06/2013 - 11:14
#14
Exerpa's picture
Exerpa
Just for lulz, perhaps the

Just for lulz, perhaps the Irontech line could become the elemental DBB, if only because the bombs have a similar look about them. Technological rather than organic, now that's the bomb I want.

Mon, 05/06/2013 - 14:30
#15
Father-Frost's picture
Father-Frost
Um go ahead and ask for a

Um go ahead and ask for a buff for the irontech but it has the same charge time as a nirto and the same blast radius... Just iron does more damage with stun for walk speed and fuse time overall it has better DPS then nitro, but BAB is a bit weak :L

Mon, 05/06/2013 - 17:59
#16
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Ohey, another buff suggestion thread from someone who has maybe used two items on their list.

Actually, I'll elaborate:

  • Armour
    • Cobalt is intended to be absolute garbage. This is because being handed the recipes and 2* items for free saves you about 120k in crafting the full set. (Also including the shield.) It does have more normal defence than anything but plate armour, which matters.
    • Fallen, I kind of agree on, but let's think for a second. You are able to use Fallen of things that aren't fiends, you know! People often use skolver and vog against enemies they're not specifically defended against. Fallen gives you:
      • Normal defence.
      • Shadow defence.
      • Fire resistance.
      • Poison resistance.
      • Low sword ASI.
      • Low handgun ASI.

      At the expense of negative curse (which is VERY ignorable) and negative fiend which only matters if you're fighting fiends and also don't have at least medium damage bonus from somewhere. It certainly doesn't matter in Lockdown where universal ASI and shadow defence are king of the hill. You don't see people using Chaos against only gremlins and constructs.

    • Ancient Plate needs help, I agree. I would give it something extra tanky like even more health or complete immunity to knockback and interruption.
  • Shields:

    • Your suggestion for Heater Shield is silly and also practically already implemented. Just shield a hit with it and you're free. Due to the freeze defence, it can most surely take it. The normal defence it has over Owlite makes it pretty dang decent for FSC, I'd even say. Freeze is more useful than other stats specifically on shields due to freeze' nature.
    • Ancient plate can tank Trojan hits. It can also tank all other melee hits. In addition, it only costs 30k and doesn't slow you down like other ancient gear does. If anything, it's overpowered.
  • Bombs:
    • Nitronome does not do the same job as Big Angry Bomb better because they do radically different jobs. Nitronome kind of holds off enemies a bit while damaging them, but Nitro's primary purpose is most defintely damage. Big Angry Bomb has a completely unmatched knockback and will send enemies somewhere far, far away. That being said, I would not mind an area buff of a tile or two, but increasing the damage to match Nitronome over time would simply overpower it.
    • You haven't used Irontech. You haven't even seen an Irontech. Not only does Irontech charge as fast and cover as large of an area as Nitronome while doing a medium damage bonus' worth of extra damage, but the 4* Irontech Bomb has the full 5* radius.

      I would actually suggest to decrease Irontech's radius to its old size but giving it all the damage of BAB.

    • Heavy deconstructor would be fine with a straight-up 5* descendant. It is a good bomb against constructs before stratum 6. Maybe make the bonus VH instead of just high.
Mon, 05/06/2013 - 18:35
#17
Father-Frost's picture
Father-Frost
Oh yeah lets make heater

Oh yeah lets make heater shield and volcanic salamander armor work as a stove top you can "cook" on it cooking takes 30 seconds and can heal any party member for 5 pips! Volcanic salamander mask can make coffee witch gives a two minute movement speed increase of very high this will help balance the game.

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