Agreed, it is awesome

Oh, and just a quick question, could you guys add LD to the testing server? It would really help out to test these features in a pvp environment, see if there could be any bugs/exploits before releasing this feature.

<3

Also I like the little cloud of dust over your bomb whenever you stop charging it (before detonation of course)

And yeah I noticed that when I picked up my Mad Bomber set... I really enjoyed it and felt faster... I did 19-22 as bomber only and I enjoyed it more than I usually does in the real server (I did not used dash or shield bash much, but it was nice)

All of the elements that people have already mentioned leave pure bombers much more vulnerable to enemy attacks, and while people have learned to work about this (a'la the nitro shield, etc.), it makes me wonder why bombs don't do significantly more damage. Placing so many restrictions on bomb usage--lower walk speed, charge-only attack, additional animation time for lifting/placing bombs--implies that they should be on par with swords and guns for damage output, but of course that's not the case since we get one attack in and then have to wait for another charge. I understand this is a bug, not an intentional change to the game's mechanics, but it would go a long way toward balancing bombers with swordies and gunners if it were to BECOME an intentional game mechanic

I'm not saying that bomb damage SHOULD be buffed, I'm just saying that if you step back and look at the general mechanics of bombs vs. swords and guns, you would think that with all the restrictions placed on bombs the pure damage bombs at least (blast lines, etc.) would do more damage than they do. I mean, really, restriction-wise what is the sword or gun equivalent to a bomb? Maybe the 5* autogun lines? By the wiki: a blitz charge does about 2.5k-2.8k damage on a single neutral target in t3, and a DBB does a 217-230 to the same. Around ten DBB drops to do the same damage to the same target as a single blitz charge (and that's not beginning to address other balance issues, like only having one event-only piece of shadow def bomber gear, and no bomber gear at all with native pierce def). Any 'right setup'--i.e., using a DBB on beast-only levels--for a bomber to clear an area faster than a swordie or a gunner is still putting a bomber at a disadvantage in regard to overall balance.

tl;dr: I understand that bombs are supposed to be balanced relative to the difference in their AoE, but big-picture I think that going pure bomber is still underpowered compared to swordie and gunner equivalents. Keeping some small part of this bug (even just losing the bomb raise animation) would help in that regard.

The difference being: to be 'on par' with a swordie, you have to wear a set that gives you max dmg/ctr (or as close to it as you can get in a single set without UVs and trinks) with multiple maxed status penalties and only one native type of damage defense. That isn't even close to equal. The fact that pure bombers have learned to cope with it is not the same as it being balanced.

The difference being: to be 'on par' with a swordie, you have to wear a set that gives you max dmg/ctr (or as close to it as you can get in a single set without UVs and trinks) with multiple maxed status penalties and only one native type of damage defense. That isn't even close to equal. The fact that pure bombers have learned to cope with it is not the same as it being balanced.

I was comparing DMG max vs DMG max... it takes 3 sword hits to kill a mob and 3 shots from drivers to kill a mob in DMG max... the difference is you can up ASI on guns and swords while it doesn't do squat on bombs

Edit: Go fight Dust bunnies with a DBB and then do it with a Blitz or Calahan or any flourish... not the same thing huh? Old school arena too it's much easier as bomber

@ Narfle

Just FYI, I was going full bomber for a lot of time... Obviously Zeddy is *the* bomberman by excellence but I am fairly good myself and you can rest assure, the new ASI buff makes a lot of difference... You can spam more efficiently than before...

I was happily surprise by the difference it makes in CTR Max. After so many hours of CTR Max bombing I kinda know where the sweet spot is to have the most spams so when this came in, I automatically felt it.

Of course Bombers are "underpowered" compared to swords mainly because of the delay of the bomb...

But if you compare bombs vs charge only swords or charge only guns they are well balanced... The problem is timing the bombs (which not a lot of people are fond of), but when you can time Venom Veiller + Voltaic Tempest + Dark Retribution spawn kills, it feels better than spawn killing with a brandish or a blitz... :D

we'll just have to agree to disagree on the balance of bomber gear relative to swordies and gunners

I guess so... o.O bombs are underpowered but not by much...

Edit: If bombers had a useful shield for them it wouldn't be as bad -_-

I only see Eury say the walking speed is a bug. The skipping of the raise animation does not seem to be addressed at all.

Yup, bomb lift is back.

Obviously I'm only speaking from my own experience, but as I said before, I was not trying to suggest that bomb damage should be buffed--I was merely using the blitz charge as an example of a non-bomb weapon that experiences somewhat similar restrictions to use, and pointing out the huge disparity in damage output therewith. The bomb movement bug people were running into on preview (or even just the loss of the bomb lift animation) would have been a nice small way of addressing some of that difference, but neither change is being implemented anyway.

+1
The most impressive thing I have seen so far on the test server is what the OP has expressed. I can't tell you how much more natural bombing is! I hope that the it stays just the way it is! Right now, in the test server, I breath a sigh of relief every time I "lift" a bomb.

Test server bombing:*sigh*... BOOM! *sigh*... BOOM!! Mwahahah! Run for your lives fools!

Public server bombing: *grunt* *heave* *strain*... BOOM! *grunt* *heave* AAAA! RUN!... BOOM!! *sigh*, I wish these bombs weren't quite so heavy, it takes so much effort to lift them...

I love bombs, but the delay at both ends leaves a bomber open to a lot of attacks that swords and guns avoid.

@Zeddy: Eek! If they killed shield canceling... OOO, please don't do that.

I have to say, Bash and Dash is not very helpful for a bomber... anyone else feel the same?

@Neodasus
You mean you're able to shardbomb Vanaduke? I'm very impressed!

@Yvanblo
I find dashing and shield-bashing extremely handy for bombing. As a bomber, you often end up in these little situations where you're ganged up and don't have time to charge. If you had a sword or a gun, getting out of these situations would be simple, but with a bomb you used to only have shieldbumps and vials to rely on. Dash/Bash is great for things like greavers. I only wish the maneuvers were able to cancel your charge so you could use it right away instead of having to put your bomb down first. It really feels like at least dashing should be able to do that.

@Zeddy: I guess I meant as opposed to with a sword or gun. With a sword, I dash, and then slash those little devilites with extreme prejudice. With a bomb... not so much, as they will have recovered long before I can charge and plant a bomb. Bombs don't have a sneak attack like swords and guns. Now if we could charge our bomb, dash, and then plant it...!!??

@Neodasus: Wow. so helpful. Bombs are, with a few exceptions, pretty slow to kill stuff. In my mind that makes it more difficult to go full bomber. If your in RJP with AOA and DR... that's different.

@Yvanblo

Like I said, having patience does not necessarily make you a skilled player. The "skill" from bombing is actually based on a player's sense of judgement and his/her knowledge of the map. That's where the skill begins and ends. There is no advanced technique for bombing, you cannot shield cancel or use any techniques whatsoever. I did not say bombing took "0 skill"--I'm just saying the skill ceiling is very low. Regardless of solo'ing vanaduke with a proto bomb, that just means you are able to memorize attack patterns and are obviously a very patient and observant player. However like I said, that is really all a bomber can be without the 'twitch' aspect of the game.

edit: My point being, bombs should never be on par with swords and guns because of how easy it is for a player to reach the skill ceiling.

Why would I do something that isn't even skill intensive but rather time-intensive--for free. I'm not someone that plays for the ego.

Well, personally, I find pure bombing difficult, so I always carry a sword gun and bomb. Pretty sure there would have to be some major changes to get bombs "on par" with swords. As it is, you are implying that simply speeding up delivery of bombs makes them too easy to use, and that "everyone" is able to master bombs in short order. Not everyone shares your incredible skills of bombing.

D&B is great for moving about and getting out of the way, no matter what weapon you are using, as a defensive tactic. My point is that so far I have not found it very helpful when going offensive while toting a bomb. The skill is, however, incredibly fun and powerful when toting a sword. Now to get a vial for dash cooldown reduction...!!! Being powerful is fun, why are so many people opposed to it? Is it not fun to slay Trojans with a single charge attack from your trusty Blitz Needle?

EDIT: @Zeddy: You bomb trojans!?!? You ARE the man!

I'm not antagonizing anyone here. I'm trying to help you guys understand as to WHY bombs shouldn't be on the level of swords and guns. Maybe it's my fault for bringing up things you didn't know about. Please look up the meaning of the term "skill ceiling" and then come back. Thank you very much, I'm only trying to put things in perspective.

edit: Here I'll help you

1. http://tynansylvester.com/2009/12/skill-ceiling/

2. Great, now that you understand what skill ceiling is: let's look at that "Vanaduke challenge" you guys keep talking about. What level of bomber would one have to be to do this? Apparently at the 'elite' level, from what you're telling me. So in theory, an elite bomber would do this no problem? What would it take for a bomber to do this? Time and knowledge. That is where the 'skill' for bombers comes from, knowledge of bomb patterns and patterns of instances within the clockworks. Is there a limit to this? Yes, there is a physical limit of knowledge one can have from the game. Is it easy to obtain? Yes, observation of instances within the clockworks is all it takes for proper timing. Of course we're over-analyzing a "set and forget" play-style but I hope you see where I am getting at.

3. How much better do you think a bomber could be once he's reached this 'pinnacle of skill'? Ask yourself that question.

For the record, I don't use blitz needle. I've never used guns ever haha. I'm a gamepad player only and I use swords/bombs. I've solo'd vana with a flourish but that takes much less time than bombs and to an extent even blitz needle.

I'm just saying that for the sake of balance this shouldn't happen. Regardless of what you may think of me personally, the fact remains that bombing is too GENERALLY easy for it to be buffed any further. The subtle buff should be enough.