Since Nick has commented on like 5 threads in the first page of the Suggestions sub-forum (which I think is great) can the question in the title please be answered (preferably by a GM)? Because as of right now the Chaos set is directly superior to Mad Bomber (no don't tell me that curse weakness makes up for its universal +4 bonus essentially giving it +12 on each piece considering there are 3 weapon types). And it's been like 3 weeks or so since Chaos became overpowered and nothing has really been done about it. Thanks!
When is Mad Bomber going to be buffed/ Chaos set going to be nerfed?
DO NOT.
Underestimate the devastating drawback that is negative curse med.
@Cmere: Mad bomber is now 99.99% useless to make, because Chaos outclasses it in every way, and in every situation that's not Darkfire Vanaduke or a black kat event.
The lack of curse penalty on Mad Bomber does not make up AT ALL for the decreased effectiveness. Chaos applies to all weapons, including bombs, with the addition of a mostly-superficial curse penalty. As it stands, it's basically an offensively superior but slightly, SLIGHTLY, inferior defensive version of Mad Bomber. There's really no reason to choose it over Chaos, especially since pure bombers are few and far between compared to swordies, gunners, or hybrids. Mad Bomber definitely needs a buff, though to what, I don't know. Perhaps an additional low damage bonus per piece, making it maximum damage bonus with the full set?
As for Chaos getting a nerf, possibly CTR low, Damage low, ASI low, per piece? Stronger than it was pre-buff, but not quite as good as it currently is.
I'm a pure bomber! :D
And admittedly, I prefer mercurial demo over mad :|
but partly because mad makes my second trinket slot obsolete.
Why does Chaos set need a nerf? Just because it's more viable than one set that does practically the same thing doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. For example, you don't see anyone complaining that Heavenly Iron Set is less viable than Snarbolax do you?
This creates a metagame in armor, and that's a good thing. If you were to say--introduce new bonuses(variants) to the other sets of armor than instead of having a linear playstyle for two similar sets of armor you can have a playstyle for any kind of player. Why should there be a struggle between two sets of armor that do practically the same thing? Why not just make them DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT instead of having to buff and nerf constantly.
But they're not made to be different, they're made to serve the same purpose, just for different people. But OOO gone and made one completely superior to the other. As for making them different, there's only so many different things you can do before it's been done before, and Mad Bomber and Chaos were -designed- to be glass cannon sets. But there's such a thing as too powerful, which Chaos has undoubtedly have become. There's also the issue of Mad Bomber once being superior, but OOO flipped everyone who used it the bird when they over-buffed Chaos. This is a game of decisions, and there isn't supposed to be any right or wrong decision, only the wrong time and place to use decided equipment in, there isn't supposed to be a be-all end-all. With overpowered equipment, that is no longer a concern, and SK loses a facet of appeal. As a long-time Chaos user, I know for a fact that they went overboard with the buff. Chaos was perfectly fine the way it was, and people were content with it. Now, everyone and their grandmother uses it, and Mad Bombers are screaming bloody murder. Why not put Chaos back to the way it was?
"For example, you don't see anyone complaining that Heavenly Iron Set is less viable than Snarbolax do you?"
Actually, I have been known to do this! You will also find people complaining that Almirian Crusader is not as good as Deadshot. And by "people" I mean "Fehzor".
You don't see anyone doing-nope, Zeddy or Fehzor has indeed done it. Whatever it is.
I simply vote that Chaos Cowl and Cloak give +2 HP and +3 at lvl 5 instead of the current +4 and +5, because HP is clearly the determining factor behind how tanky you are.
Mad bomber could use DMG High on bomb, giving it MAX dmg with the set overall
too OP?
I mean we're talking about bombers here...
If it makes you feel better, Eurydice already made that gear balance survey. (even tho this was an obvious issue)
No one complains Almarian and Heavenly Iron because they are so hard to get, and so not worth it. So people ask "is this set worth getting?", get told "no", and they don't complain because they didn't waste their CE getting a set that's less useful than a more easily obtainable one. And if I'm not mistaken, you just said you don't care if a piece of gear is overpowered?
Why is it outclassing mad bomber in (almost) evrething? Is it because of the abilities? o-o
EDIT:OOOH it apply on ALL weapon, including bombs! It make so much more sense now!
@Klipik
Some armors need to be a little stronger than others so there can be a metagame. This is hard to understand from a player's point of view but try to grasp the concept of cyclical imbalance.
Metagame? That's ironic. Because the armor that is easier to obtain is more powerful than the harder to obtain armor. That's not metagame, that's stupidity.
I am perfectly aware of planned imbalance to create a dynamic metagame. The problem is that in that type of a situation, nothing is outright 100% better than anything else. For example, in Starcraft, the metagame alternates between early rush builds and long macro games. If it stays at long games for too long, people start cutting early-game defense and then rush builds come back in to favor. But in SK, no one will ever use Mad Bomber again, because the only think it has over Chaos is no curse vulnerability. How many weapons deal curse? One, and it's already widely used. How many enemies deal curse? Three, and they occur in such obscure places that only the obscenely rich would ever consider using Mad over Chaos. The only way that will change is if OOO adds more curse weapons, or more curse enemies. Or, just change Chaos/Mad.
@Dementia-Praecox Unfortunately, it has been too long and reverting chaos set back to the way it was before will invoke too much rage. IMO I think that chaos should get dmg, ctr, asi (and possibly msi) low per piece, dmg medium and ctr low per piece, or ctr low, dmg med on the cowl and dmg low, ctr med on the armor.
@Neodasus Cyclical imbalance would only apply in PvP, not PvE. The chaos set gets sword damage med, sword ctr med, gun damage med, and gun ctr med, in exchange for a medium curse penalty. On a armor designed to punish you for taking even a single hit. Give me one valid example where mad bomber outclasses chaos.
@Etharaes A nerf to revert chaos back to the way it once was shouldn't invoke rage since previously chaos was a balanced armor set. Unlike say when they completely changed shard bombs from overpowered to under-powered and everyone had a right to rage (even players like myself who never used the shard bombs).
Either give Mad Bomb Damage Increase: High or Chaos CTR, DMG and MSI (And possibly ASI): low. And Neodasus, there's no metagame if armours A, Q, and V outshine the rest of the alphabet.
@Gravelord-Caste
There is, in Lockdown anyway(Skolver, Vog, Chaos, Quicksilver, Cowls, Snarbolax, Ancient Plate, Deadshot, Shadowsun, and yes even Mad Bomber). Which of course, is all that matters to a vast majority of players. I mean why complain about a wasted 3k CE? I made a Cobalt set when I first started and didn't complain after I had realized Skolver did the same thing but was better overall. I only blamed myself for not reading into it deep enough. Of course there's nothing you can do if you made the set beforehand, but even then it's still a decent set. Why bother if you're a pure bomber anyway?
If they're going to buff an armor nobody considers using anymore then at the very least buff every other armor that is low-tier. Change one, you change them all guys.
Change one, you change them all guys.
That's not how you balance something....
That's how you put chaos in a game though... Go watch D3, it sums up the story of bad gear getting good, adding new armor and completely shift the whole games towards legends and sets...
Which killed the game, they switched so many time IAS and crit that most gear people bought/found became useless...
IF they retro-nerf Chaos, a lot of people will be angry because they made the set because they thought (with good reasoning) that the chaos set will stay like this because it has been MONTHS since it's like that...
I would be pissed, I am having fun with the chaos set... I still go as Mad Bomber whenever I feel like bombing though, I cannot forget my roots that made me love bombing ^ ^
@Shamanala
You're right, but what I meant with that statement is that there is a boatload of crappy armor sets that are easily ditched for one particular set. Even though it's obvious nobody is going to craft these low-tier sets, my point still stands that if you're going to buff (or nerf the opposing armor set)an armor set that is thrown away in favor of another then you should take the time to make sure every armor set brings something new to the table. Why give us diversity if it only points towards a select few sets of armor? I know I said this creates a healthy metagame but if you're going to go so far as to buff/nerf opposing sets of armor then just go through all the sets and create a diverse metagame once and for all.
Isn't it easier to suggest to make curse monsters more common? That way, Chaos would finally get all of its weaknesses exploited, and Mad Bomber would be a bit more popular. OOO is pumping out new monsters, so what if we suggest a new idea or two?
Imo, if Chaos gonna get nerf, don't take CTR. It's good thing.
But i fully agree, that mad bomber is worthless and it's insult aimed to bombers.
If curse were significantly more common, I could understand the power disparity between chaos and mad bomber sets, but I would have to disagree on making curse-inflicting monsters more common being easier to implement than just tweaking the existing sets. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there only 3 critters that can inflict curse in-game atm? And all in the same enemy group as well.
Curse monster are only common in the highest difficulty of content available and that is Shadow Lair Tier 3. If you want curse mobs to be common then you're going to have to wait for d30+ content. Like I said a long time ago, the perspective of a developer with information from R&D is different than that of the player. Maybe they understand the direction they want to take with endgame content?
I don't think they wanted everyone to wear Chaos, just to get their teeth kicked in later. As for the perspective of a developer, they don't always make the best decisions. (coughs and points to the mockery that has replaced RSS) A metagame is absolutely pointless if everyone is going to wear the same armor, which is easily, EASILY, obtained compared to say, a shadow lair set. That's not metagame, that's just making things too easy. Okay, here's a proposal. Throw it in the Sanctuary machine, take everyone's recipes of it, including the ones in the HoH, refund every recipe of it with 25k, then make people lug through a shadow lair to get it. Compared to other SL sets, it's quite powerful, and trumps basically everything except for Snarby, if shadow defense and swords are your sole priority. That way, prospective Chaos-users would have to work harder to get it, putting an inhibitor on the mockery that you call a metagame, existing Chaos-users are still happy, and Mad Bomber now looks a lot more appealing because it's comparatively easy to make.
If they did that, what's the point of the other bomber sets?
Making a set harder to get doesn't excuse making it overpowered.
True, but would you rather nerf it and have riots in the streets? It's been buffed for too long, nerfing it now would result in a bigger outcry than Mad Bombers are making. Besides, I would rather have an overpowered shadow lair set than an underpowered one like most of the current ones are. What's the point of even making the sets have statistics if all they're used for is as a costume?
No? Care to elaborate on that a bit? I'm trying to find a way of solving the problem here, and nerfing Chaos back to the way it was would only make things worse than they already are. You might not have noticed, but a LOT of people have made Chaos recently -because- it is now overpowered. What do you think would happen to those people if we did make it as it once was? Do you think they would just quietly sit there? They'd raise hell, and this is one of the first places they'd come to do so. This leaves us a few options. One, nerf it partially, but not to the point it was at before. Two, make it harder to craft or obtain. Or three, sit there and say "no" instead of offering other suggestions.
I'd be fine if chaos dropped the damage bonus and just kept the CTR. Just don't touch the CTR. >:(
Take away mad bomber's negitive status bonuses, I know it's already been mentioned, but I wanted to bring ti up again because I think it's a viable idea.
No, it's not a viable idea. If they took away Mad Bomber's status penalties, the only thing it would prove is that OOO cares even less about bombers than initially believed by taking away more choices. Nobody would use anything else, and people who -did- use anything else would be out of luck and would likely become quite adamant. Mad Bomber without flaws would just make other bombing sets pale in comparison and many more threads would pop up asking for -that- to get nerfed, bringing this whole fiasco full circle.
The stats are exactly the same, in terms of bombs.
If you're a bomber, wouldn't you be using BOMBS?
I understand that people like some more defense such as a sword or gun,
but still. I mean, if you're so unhappy about it then just use the chaos set.
That's the whole point: mad bomber set has the same defense as chaos, same negative status resists (minus curse), but the ctr and dmg bonuses are restricted to bombs. After chaos was buffed, there is no reason for mad bomber to exist unless it gets changed in some way.
but still. I mean, if you're so unhappy about it then just use the chaos set.
If Polaris spam is so bad in Lockdown why doesn't everyone get a Polaris? Because that certainly alleviates the problem.
I suggested that Chaos Set should be purely glass AND cannon. Nick said that Chaos Set didn't have much cannon, though is the glass part enough?
The topic I created in Suggestions a while ago asked for a sort of "heaven or hell" exclusive type of change to Chaos Set, after all, if you go Chaos is for extreme offense at the cost of defense. Though, it may have been too much. I think though that Chaos Set should have less defense, even strip the elemental defense out of it. And then, buff the damage to High per piece. Just look at the Swiftstrike Buckler.
Then, Mad Bomber should reduce the elemental penalties to low - not eliminate them due to the other sets. Or, push its bomb damage to high too.
They could just remove Normal defense from the Chaos set. Relatively minor effect on damage taken as I understand it and thematically appropriate.
Bombers really need a shadow defense set. Maybe Mad Bomber should be it?
Mad Bomber Helm/Armor:
+Normal Defense
+Shadow Defense
+Bomb Charge Time Reduction: Medium
+Bomb Damage Bonus: Very High
- Poison
- Fire
- Freeze
- Shock
- Stun
Tada! Shadow Bomber with Damage Bonus Maximum! but with Negative Stun resistance and the others.
It's the same...Just without curse....And different ability, why should it get changed?
My tiny little head doesn't understand you.