Spiral Knights Trading Card Game: Krogmo Version! (KTCG)

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Autofire's picture
Autofire

Also, check out the CTCG, or SK TCG: Clockworks Version.

No, it isn't a suggestion because it's unlikely to have something like this happen. It's more of just a simple idea that would be interesting if it existed, but that's more wishful thinking than anything. However, if chances are feeling funky today (or through the year), we just might see a virtual thing like this in game, but I'm never going to count on that unless I have a good reason to.

Jump List
This is a list of handy links, because it will eventually get hard to get to the replies of this thread, as well as find my other posts. :P

Card Library and Creation Guide
Example Battle
Replies

Basics
I'll get to specific card types later, but I will mention some anyway. Don't let that bother you...if it does read below. Aside from cards, it the following equipment will be used: damage counters, a coin, and status tokens for curse, fire, poison, and shock.

Objective
A player wins if the following happens to their opponent:

  1. He/she runs out of cards in his/her deck.
  2. He/she runs out of usable knights, meaning if they are all KO'd.
  3. He/she forfeits.

Setup
Each player would have a deck of 60 cards (number from Pokemon, hurp durp change with whatever fits your fancy.) which they construct to their liking. Each player draws 7 cards (from Pokemon again.) for their hand.

They must have at least one recruit rank knight in their hand. If someone does not, they must put their hand back in their deck, shuffle it, and draw 7 more cards. This must be repeated until they have a recruit ranked knight in their hand. Once this requirement has been met, the game may start.

Knock Outs and Hearts
Knights are KO'd when they take more damage than their HP amount. Damage is dealt by attacking with weapons attached to knights.

After KOing an opponent, a coin is flipped. If heads, all the knights on the KOer's side gets healed a certain amount. (10 damage for T1, 20 for T2, and 30 for T3.) If tails, nothing happens. Getting healed by this is called "Finding a heart."

Resistances
When attacking, each weapon has its own damage type. Various knight cards are resistant and/or weak to certain damage types. They may also be resistant/weak to some statuses. This resistance/weakness can come in various ways:

  • Damage modifiers:
    • Flat modifier: A certain amount is either added or removed from the amount of damage done. This may nullify damage altogether if the damage amount is less than the decrease amount.
    • Floating modifier: This doubles the damage received.
  • Status Resistance: Being weak to a status causes the coin to be flipped twice instead of once for each chance of it being dealt. Being resistant to it causes the coin to be flipped between every turn, with heads up curing the status. There is no weakness/resistance to Orientation Statuses. (See below)

Game Modes
There are a few different game styles, but I'll start with the one which is the most like Pokemon, as it may be more familiar to you guys. If you don't understand part of it, just checkout the rules for the trading card game somewhere. It might clear things up. (All the same, tell me if you don't understand something!)

Tag Match
Both players must both lay out a single recruit ranked knight, face down, in the middle of the play area. These knights two are in the arena. The knights in the arena are the only ones which can use attacks. Then they can each place up to 3 recruit cards in front of themselves, face down. These are benched knights which may tag (take the place of) the knight in the arena.

Both players flip a coin to determine who goes first. Then both players turn all their cards face up. The player who goes first draws a card from his deck and adds it to their hand. The first player may play any card(s) from his/her hand, and then may attack. However, knights cannot be promoted on the first turn and assist cards may not be played.

Skirmish
This is the same as a Tag Match, but with a few differences. First off, each player may have two knights in the battle field at a time. Each of these knights get an action for each turn. (For example, tagging out one knight will only keep you from doing anything with the now tagged in knight; you can still attack with your other knight.) The other difference is that you may have up to 4 benched knights.

Battle Royal
This is the same as Tag Match, but there is no bench! Knight actions are done from the player's left to right, and must be done in this order. However, knights can be tagged still. The only difference is this changes their order, so you can change the order that they attack in. (Both tagged knights lose their action for that turn. To remind the player of which knights have been tagged, the tagged knights are stunned until the end of the turn.)

Actions

A variety of things may be done each turn, but this largely depends on what you have in your hand. If an action ends the player's turn, (or ends the knight's action, in the case of non-Tag Battles) that actions name is bold.

  • Play a Recruit Character card: Recruit Characters go into the bench area. These are signified by a "Recruit" tag at the bottom right of the card.
  • Promote a knight: Put a greater ranked knight card from your hand on top of one of your other knight who is in play. You can't promote knights who have just been played/promoted. (Because of this, you can't promote on the first turn.)
  • Play a Basic Weapon card: Attach a weapon card from your hand to any character. (This is done by putting it under a character in a way that both players can see it.) You may only play one per turn. If you have upgraded a Weapon, then you can't do this on that turn.
  • Upgrade a Weapon: Replace on of your character's weapons with its upgraded version. (Put the old one in your discard pile.) You can only do this if your enhanced weapon doesn't exceed the rank of the knight who is using it. You can only do this once per turn, and you can't do it if you've played a Basic Weapon card that turn.
  • Play a Utility card: Take an item card from your hand and show it to your opponent. Then you (and maybe your opponent) follow the instructions on the card. After this, you discard the card in your discard pile. (Unless the instructions say not to!)
  • Play an Assist card: You attach these to a knight. Their effects are varied.
  • Tag out your battling knight: In Tag Battles and Skirmishes, this swaps knights in the arena for knights on the bench. This is handy for keeping a knight from being KO'd. In Battle Royals, this swaps positions of knights. Both knights are stunned until the end of the turn to remind the player that they have been tagged in that turn.
  • Attack: Use one of the weapons attached to your knight to deal damage (and maybe a status!) to a foe. You can only do this to opponents who aren't on the bench. (With very, very few exceptions.)
  • End the turn without attacking: Sometimes you want to do this.

Statuses
There are a variety of statuses in Spiral Knights. Of course, I'll try my best to mirror them, including Sleep. 4 of these use tokens, while 4 others change the direction of the knight's card.

Token Statuses
These can stack, meaning it is possible to have all of these statuses at the same time. (Ouch.) These also do not expire, so they last until they are cured somehow. Bold text shows what effect modifiers (see resistances above) do. If there is no bold text, then no effect modifier exists.

  • Curse: While cursed, doing any attack will yield 20 damage to the attacker. If an assist card comes into effect during the status, the knight with the status takes an additional 10 damage.
  • Fire: Deals 10 damage between every turn.
  • Poison: Reduces damage dealt by 20 while increases damage taken by 20. This is done before resistances are taken into account.
  • Shock: Before every attack, flip a coin. If heads, attacker attacks. If tails, attacker does nothing and takes 10 damage.

Orientation Statuses
These can't stack and override each other. (So if you are frozen, being put to sleep cures the freeze.) These never have effect modifiers. These are denoted by how the knight card is turned. (Which is why they have this name.) While a knight has any of these statuses, he/she may not be tagged.

  • Freeze: Card turns towards the player who owns the card. Freeze prevents most swords and most guns from hitting, but doesn't impede bombs in any way. Taking damage cures the status. (This includes Curse and Fire damage.)
  • Sleep: Card turns to the left of the player who owns the card. Sleep prevents the knight from attacking. Between turns a coin is flipped. If heads, the Sleep is cured. If tails, nothing happens.
  • Stun: Card turns to the right of the player who owns the card. This prevents the knight from attacking. It's cured after one turn.

Incapacitation, AKA Knock Out
This is a special status. It's denoted by removing all damage counters and status tokens and turning the card face down. The KO'd knight is moved to the bench and stays there unless a card is played that removes them. Incapacitation can't be cured through normal means.

Card Types
Ok, now I'll list the cards in earnest! Oh wait, this is only the types. Sorry, go to next post for the actual cards. After a description of the card, a list of information on the card is given. Every card has a picture, description, and name. Each card type's border is also color coded.

  • Character Cards: These are the main cards which are used in play, and must be in the deck. Stronger character cards may be stacked on top via Promoting. Weapon and Assist cards may be attached to them. They have HP, Rank, Star Value (which is currently meaningless), Strengths, Weaknesses, and Abilities. There are 3 different versions:
    • Knights: All around. Are effected by almost every card, and are most varied.
    • Gremlins: Focused. They boost the power of certain weapons, but are always weak to Shadow damage.
    • Underworld: Strategic. These generally have less HP and are almost always weak to the common Elemental damage type. However, they gain many advantages when paired up with the right cards, such as Grim Totems, Gran Fausts, and most Swarm Cards. Many of these have negative effects on non-Underworld characters.
  • Weapon Cards: These are just as critical as Knight Cards, if not more so. Some do some damage and a status, others do pure damage, and others still have some non-status side-effect, like life drain. They can be alchemized (AKA upgraded) to greater versions. They have Damage, Rank, and Abilities. (Which ties into statuses.) There are three sub-types of Weapon Cards:
    • Swords: High, direct damage. These are usually quite basic. Freeze nullifies most of them.
    • Guns: Average damage, but usually has a special effect to go with them. (I.e. Alchemers may hit benched players through their "Ricochet" ability.) These are more tactical in many cases, but at the same time can be efficient in dealing killing blows. Freeze nullifies some of them.
    • Bombs: Varies greatly, from high, concentrated damage, to low, spread damage. Bombs are some of the most diverse weapons. Unlike Swords and Guns, Bombs will still hit when the user is Frozen. Unfortunately, the user has a "Fizzle Chance" on bombs unless they are a bomber.
  • Assist Cards: Some take effect when the user is on the bench (like heal 10 for the holder per turn) and others boost damage a tad. Some, such as devilites and wolvers, increase in strength for the more you have in your party. They can be discarded at any time if the player wishes either to remove their effects or to replace them with another Assist Card. They have two subtypes:
    • Monsters: These are closely effected by the arena type. They usually provide supportive effects, but don't do direct damage.
    • Battle Sprites: These are mini characters of their own. I'm not sure if they'll get their own move per turn or not. They have their own attacks (or atleast effects) which can be chosen from. They can be promoted (coughevolvedcoughcough) into stronger versions.
  • Item Cards: These are cards which don't fit in the other sections. They have 4 subtypes:
    • Arenas: These are played down somewhere between both players. These provide an equivalent effect to both players. Playing one while another one is currently in place will discard the first one.
    • Characters: These are special NPCs from Spiral Knights, like Kora, Warmaster Seerus, and such. These are always played and then discarded afterword. Keep in mind that I still plan to have some special NPCs show up somehow like other character cards.
    • Materials: Mats are needed to do something. That's really what they do. They are required to play certain other cards, but do nothing on their own. Only powerful cards require them.
    • Tools: These are usually quick belt items. They may be remedy capsules, vials, etc. Some are attached to knights, others are used on the spot.

Update List
May 19: Added Statuses. Revised Basics sections. Fixed typos and format issues. Listed the card types. Added Jump List.
May 20: Changed Status resistances. Added color codes to cards. These are mostly just thoughts currently. Added Material Cards.
May 22: Removed color codes for cards. (Those will be decided later.) Changed the list of card types. Added link to CTCG.
June 2: Cleared up somethings and tweaked statuses.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
Card Library and Creation Guide

This is where currently existing cards go. These are images, mind you. I'll be including ones by other people in a little bit, but I want to have 2 or 3 of a kind before I start accepting help with that type. This was going to be a full list, but I'll keep things clean instead.

  • Weapons (Template): Swords, Guns, Bombs
  • Characters: Knights, Gremlins, Underworld
  • Assists: Monsters, Battle Sprites
  • Items: Arenas, Characters, Materials, Tools

Creation Guide

This guide will teach you how to make cards! Not that you'd want to...lol. :P You'll need to have GIMP 2.4.5 or newer to do this. (Yes, my Gimp is old.) After getting it installed, (and preferably after you get acquainted with it.) download one of the templates up above. I've documented a bit to help make some things more clear, so it should be easy to figure stuff out. If it isn't, tell me please! I'd like to know how to make it better.

If you've made something and want to give it to me, post it here. (PLEASE NOTE: I haven't uploaded the list of cards I plan on making yet. While you can go ahead and make anything you want, don't expect me to put it in the Dropbox folder quite yet. I'll link to the file as soon as I have it partially made. Yes, I have a list, but it's on paper.)

Autofire's picture
Autofire
RAWR

RESERVED AGAIN!!!

BWAHAHA!!

Insert example Tag Match here.

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone
Ehhh...

/e is surprised.

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone
I wonder...Lol 6 stars

I wonder...

Lol 6 stars should mean Defender Elite XD

STUN...

http://www.yugiohcardmaker.net/

That's the site to make SK esque Yu Gi Oh cards. The image must be sourced out, onto a new tab.

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone
In Yu Gi Oh language...

Assists and Weapons are equip cards.

Promoted cards should be...continuous trap cards that are placed onto the field. :3

So on and so forth, etcetera etcetera.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Well, maybe. But I wanted more of a SK look...that doesn't look all to SK-y. :P

Also, no. Some ranks will be skipped. Might be like this:

Recruit: 0*
Apprentice: 1*
Soldier: 2*
Knight: 3*
Knight Elite: 4*
Vanguard: 5*

I've skipped Defender and Defender Elite because they aren't fitting right. Defender is for the tank, and won't be a rank. Squire is left out because...idk. Special Ops is left out because...wait we don't have a Special Ops!

I plan on making the Cobalt knight be the "pretty crappy" one, but it would skip a few ranks. Usually the powerful 5* knights will have to go through every single rank, while the less powerful ones will skip a few. This way, you can charge up into the powerful weapons faster than your opponent at the cost of being imbalanced if they get the time to level up their party.

EDIT: On looking closer...that might actually work. I'll have to play with it first, though. (Talking about Yugioh)

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone

Yeah, that would work.

I'd go with you, just showed an example, tho XD

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Wait...go...with me? Where?

Anywho, I have finished working on the OP for tonight. I'm sleepy. q_p

Just as a reminder to myself, I'm going to make two kinds of cards: Spiral and Whitespace. The only difference will be the border colors and maybe a couple of other things. Spiral cards are cannon objects, like Calibur and Blast Bomb. Whitespace cards ones are not. For example, there will probably be a Sleep inducing weapon, which will have to be Whitespace because no weapon gives Sleep currently. Trotodrones would be Whitespace cards as well, because while they existed at one point, they aren't in the game anymore. (For now!)

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone
...

I meant with you and your idea... ._.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
So this is the game you were

So this is the game you were talking about? That's awesome! I am a big fan of PTCG. I don't collect the cards; I play it because I like to build powerful custom decks :3

Grittle's picture
Grittle
OR we could let Valve use us

OR we could let Valve use us for their little trading card game (beta) thing that helps them with sales and such

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-05/20/steam-trading-cards

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
I'll start off, I guess...

I'm going to do a mockup of each of the card types to try to set out some standards
Feel free to suggest alterations if this seems unbalanced, or if you think the info on the card should be arranged differently. Card colour is currently a placeholder.

Blast Bomb

Attack text reads:

Charge
At the end of your opponents next turn, your opponent's active knight takes 30 damage, even if your active knight is knocked out.

Description text reads:

[An all-purpose bomb issued to Spiral Knights who have proven themselves in the field.]

Calibur

Attack text reads:

Strike
20 Damage

Combo
40 Damage
Your active knight cannot take any action during your next turn.

Charge
At the end of your opponent's next turn, your opponent's active knight takes 40 damage. Your opponent chooses one of their benched knights and switches it with their active knight.
Your active knight cannot take any action during your next turn.

Description text reads:

[A standard issue sword awarded to Spiral Knights who have proven themselves in the field.]

Blaster

Attack text reads:

Kite
10+ Damage
If your current active knight did not take damage during your opponent's last turn, this attack does 10 damage plus 10 more damage.
If your opponent attacks during their next turn, they flip a coin. If heads, their attack does nothing.

Combo
20 Damage

Description Text:

[A versatile handgun issued to Spiral Knights who have proven themselves in the field.]

Defender

Defensive power:
20 Normal
10 Piercing

Attacks text reads:

Block

If the opponent attacks your active knight in the opponent's next turn, reduce the damage dealt to your active knight by the resistive amount displayed on Defender's card.
You cannot use the Defender during your next turn.

Health Capsule

Remove 3 damage counters from a single Knight. If the knight has less than 3 damage counters, remove all of them.

Jorin, 2 Star
Basic - Jorin, 2 Star has no pre-requisites
Soldier Rank
100 HP

Pokebody... I mean ability text:

Resistant
Jorin recovers quickly from statuses. (I don't know how status recovery will work)

Cobalt Armor and Helm
Takes 10 extra damage from Elemental attacks
Takes 10 extra damage from Shadow attacks
No equipment restrictions

Upgrades and Unique Variants

Jorin's Valiance
Upgrades from Master Blaster (Should weapons need to be upgraded, or should they already be how they are, and the Knight gets upgraded, only equipping star weapons what his rank allows?)

Kite
40+ Damage
If your current active knight did not take damage during your opponent's last turn, this attack does 40 damage plus 10 more damage.
If your opponent attacks during their next turn, they flip a coin. If heads, their attack does nothing.

Unique Variant Attack: Bayonette
60 Damage
Flip a coin. If tails, your active knight takes 20 damage. If your active Knight is not Jorin, your active knight takes an additional 10 damage.

Hearthstone's picture
Hearthstone

The Treasure Vault isn't as lively anymore... :(

Anyways, that's a nice template, Hex :)

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
The template is just for info

The template is just for info arrangement and card types, so far.

Haven't decided on card colour, W x H ratio, and whatnot.

Should the infobox be horizontal, right underneath the image box, or is it fine where it is on the right-hand side?

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

He he he...I was going to rip up the old UI files to use for mine. I'll be back with a template...eventually.

Steam cards may work, but I might use Game Gardens if I were to put this into code.

I like those, Hex! I didn't think of including the combo or charges like that. However, I want to mention that I don't really want the Calibur to be able to switch positions, as I'm planning Swords to focus on pure damage. Maybe that could go to either the Graviton or Electron series.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Autofire

I was only thinking of doing it for the Calibur and the Troika since they have crazy knockback.
Like a "flip a coin, if heads, opponent is stunned, if tails, opponent swiches out"

I like where you're going with the "each knight has inherit abilities and defenses" etc, it really saves having to develop armor cards, etc.

Well, since you're gonna do a UI as well, I might as well start spitting out some card stats.

Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
So it'd be focussed on a

So it'd be focussed on a couple of main knight cards and gearing them up? Sort of a pvp vibe, which I guess is appropriate. When I saw "SK TCG" my mind went straight to more of a MTG setting, with more of a focus on army vs army and having the monsters and creatures included in it as well. I mean, SK already has families and factions set up so lends nicely to a faction/FFA/MTG-esque setting.

My ovaries do tingle at the notion of TCGs though, and can't believe I never thought of an SK TCG before...quite exciting and looks like you've got a good setup so far, so keep at it~

Perhaps I'll just draw up some totally separate ideas for a faction-y based one myself, rather than sit and invade your current plan with my own preconceptions :)

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
I have a request: Instead of

I have a request: Instead of having complexities for effects of statuses, why not just have resistances affect status chances?
Status resistance means that if a player succeeds in inflicting a status on the resistant knight, the resistant knight can flip a coin. If heads, the status is immediately removed
Status vunerability means that if a status fails to be inflicted on the knight, that coin is re-flipped once.

@Brady

It is possible that in addition to Knights as playable characters, the monsters can attack too.
This could lead to pure monster decks VS pure knight decks for (PvE?) fun.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

It is possible that in addition to Knights as playable characters, the monsters can attack too.
This could lead to pure monster decks VS pure knight decks for (PvE?) fun.

Aye, good idea. Yes, Calibur may actually have a way to force a switch. Things are really liquid right now.

I just got finished on our favorite sword! Give a big hand to the Cautery Sword! (Will be tweaked in the future, that's sure!) It sorta goes right in the face of being pure damage, but at the same time the Cautery can't be upgraded, so you want to have a good reason to sacrifice enhancing it further, right?

As a Gimp user, I have a .xcf version of this file, which keeps all of the layers and text in a nice editable format. I also have some templates. I recommend that if any of you want to make something of your own, that you use the template...which I don't have time to post right now.

The image has been updated.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Autofire

It looks fantastic.

If you dodecide that he wants to use weapons that carry their own equippable "attacks", I just finished a list for the handguns:

Gun Card Stats

I feel like I've put way too many coin flips in there: I'm putting them in places where they'd usually be in Pokemon TCG, that is, anywhere where there are a rapid series of attacks in succession, or a chance of inflicting a status.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Glad you like it!

Oh and don't make anything based off it yet! I've remembered a few flaws...I'll be updating it soon.

Ah, that's a nice list you have there. :P I'll probably work off that, at least some of the time.

EDIT: I think I will tone down the amount of rules on resistances on statuses because simplicity is a very good thing where possible. Maybe a resistance to something would just make it so each turn you flip a coin to see if it will go away, while a weakness, like Hex said, would get a coin flip twice to see if the status gets dealt.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Autofire

Well, since you've still not defined how you're doing weapons, I'll just work on Knights ^_^

Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
@Hex: Ehhh, possibly, but

@Hex:
Ehhh, possibly, but Auto's vision of an SK TCG is completely different from what I imagined. Me suggesting changes to suit my imagining would just be asking him to change his idea too much; probably better if I just make up a separate concept and display that as an alternative suggestion to the TCG idea rather than trying to corrupt his ideas with mine :)

ALTHOUGH as far as his idea goes, I do reckon that monsters could be involved in some way. SK has a lot of other characters and creatures available to use, so limited it to exclusively to Knights alone is missing out on some amount of potential. Although since his idea seems focussed on more of a "duelling" aspect it's possibly better tor refine and focus on getting that correct before adding in extra weirdnesses like separate monster rules which could get in the way during the concept phase.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Brady

Yeah. I'd rather he finish laying down the basic ruleset instead of going off on tangents.

We get that the way the system works is based around Pokemon TCG, but he hasn't yet defined exactly how different cards operate: What exactly sets a Leviathan Blade apart from a Wild Hunting Blade? How will a Valiance be different to a Supernova? How will a Polaris variate from a Storm Driver? Will you give one a higher damage, making the other underpowered?

The reason why Pokemon TCG is so awesome is because each pokemon is quite unique. There are a few recurring attacks, but those are out of hundreds.

If you want to do a Pokemon TCG Clone where pretty much the only thing that's changed is the pictures on the cards (well, of course more than that, but that's what it is essentially) then I'd be happy to jump right in.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

The problem is, it's not a clone. It's inspired by the Pokemon TCG, but it isn't a clone. For one thing, knights will lack attacks altogether. The only thing to differentiate knights apart is that they have different abilities. Another core difference is that KO'd knights stay on the field, so instead of prize cards you run out of space in your bench. (Assuming you don't have a Disconnect card or a reviving card...dur hur hur...)

Now that I think about it, it would have been a better idea to setup stuff before posting, but it's a tad late to go back. I wasn't sure if anyone would notice it at all. xD

One thing I do want to do is keep things balanced and unique, akin to Pokemon TCG. The only time two weapons of the same rank will be different is when there is a fundamental difference in how you get them. For example, Gyrados is very powerful and is only a level 1 pokemon, but you need a utterly worthless Magikarp to obtain it. If luck isn't on your side, you'll get one or the other and not both. They're both virtually useless without the other, so this keeps things more balanced. (WELL, you could fill your deck with Magikarp and Gyrados cards...)

Other than that, things will be kept even. I like how in Pokemon TCG the potion is balanced with the super potion instead of being dwarfed by it. I'm going to make sure something like that works with Health Capsules and Super Capsules. (Might even include Deluxe ones...)

Also, the problem with having weapon cards instead of energy cards is that most monsters cannot wield most of them. That is why they are going to be a different kind of card. (Assist Cards.) With this in mind, a Gremlin card series that works like knight cards wouldn't be impossible...

Shotjeer's picture
Shotjeer
Well

Can we have monsters in hand? I'm sorry if you put that in, but I don't read entire wall of texts. No offense or anything, but I don't really do Pokemon anymore, last time I did it was 3rd grade, and am a bit rusty. But no matter. Nice Job.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Aye, so you like shorter things? I'll put it short, then.

Monsters will be cards that can go in your hand. Most of them behave differently than knights, but I'm planning on Almarian Crusaders, Gremlins, and Mecha Knights to be like normal Knights. I might make up a special Slime to fill that role, too.

EDIT: Also, I've started on the Card Library. I'll get the template images up soon. Before I do so, can I ask if everyone is fine using Gimp to make these? I'll give the .xcf as well as a .png, but .xcf will be easier to use because that's Gimp's native format which preserves all the layers and floating text.

EDIT2: I use the same fonts as the game uses, Arial and Arial Black. Eventually I'll probably make a construction guide just to show how I make these...but I'll have to figure out a standard that works before doing that.

Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady

Yeah, could be interesting to try and balance everything out focussing on the PokeMon rulesets, and SK is built for it with advancing gear and knight classes.
As far as monsters go, I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to put together something along the same rules, although you might need to use some artistic licensing as far as restrictions go; for example allowing monsters to use weaponry etc, or creating weaponry for them. Even so, playstyles could vary dramatically.

I like the sound of a "Disconnect Card" btw. I was thinking something similar, in terms of keeping an "online game" vibe steady to really keep the right atmosphere :)

As for what I was going on about, it's definitely not PokeMon rules, since I'm more of a fan of MTG personally, and think SK fits nicely in with it. To give more of an example of what I've been thinking, I scribbled up an image file:
http://s203.photobucket.com/user/Darkbrady/media/Rules_zps31238bdb.png.h...
(Forgive me, but the image's dimensions are really too large to read the text clearly online; if anyone wants to actually read it, downloading it from Photobucket is probably the only way until I get a .doc or something made. However, the images should still be clear enough otherwise.)

My imagining of it went more along the lines of larger groups of creatures and knights all fighting in more of an army vs army style. The different families would require different types of minerals to summon and therefore are nicely separated from each other (MTG style) and with that, could have vastly different playstyles. Knights being focussed on a mixture of different styles, while Beasts go for a heavy offensive, Undead play about with self-reviving, Slimes go for numbers. That kinda thing.

Btw, Autofire; forgive me if you feel I'm totally derailing this topic. The topic title just had me thinking up a different concept and I think I'd just keep it within the discussion since it's still a TCG concept, and the discussion of all the possibilities is interesting, to me at least.
Out of interest, I asked my girl what she'd imagine an SK TCG was and she immediately went to the idea of the player being an avatar for their own knight, and that the deck would consist entirely of gear and abilities and let the game essentially play like a 1v1 duel.
The way SK is set up, it actually lends itself a lot of possibilities for a TCG, s'pretty cool imo~

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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Well, don't worry if our ideas for a TCG don't match. Who knows, maybe we could merge them somehow?

All the same, I'll probably refine my idea a bit more first...I'm not really sure. I wasn't planning on including minerals, but maybe I will. It's a bit tricky...I keep on thinking of allowing Assist type cards to be enhanced, but then we'd have 3 things which could be enhanced. This feels like a little too much to enhance and work up to, and things may get a little monotonous.

Anyway, I recently got something working which hasn't worked before. I'll be away for a little while...don't worry I'll keep on working on the cards! (Next up: Proto Gunslinger!)

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
I went ahead and made some

I went ahead and made some different knights (list is incomplete)

I tried to keep it simple, but some additional rules and effects crept in and made it a little more complicated than I'd originally hoped.

Note that each entry is not a card, but a set of cards that represent's the Knight's upgrade tree. Most things stay the same throughout the tree, but at Vanguard, some knights can choose to branch off, such as Izola becoming Volcanic Izola, (using Volcanic Plate Mail instead of Ironmight) Echo becoming Volcanic Echo (Vog instead of Skolver) and Daxen becoming either Nameless Daxen or Justifier Daxen, which affects his defenses.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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I'm going to be switching to Dropbox so I can update anything on the fly, with myself not needing to go back and re-upload anything.

Hex, while that's a start, all the knights here will be nameless, or atleast that's how I imagined it. I was thinking the characters from the game, like Izola, Kora, and Echo, would all appear as item cards. (Ok, I need to change that name...unless...is Kora an item?) That idea came from PTCG. (I.e. the N card causes both players to change their hands up.)

Maybe some of them would be Assist Cards too.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Autofire

Well I was putting in the Hall of Hero knights and a few other active NPCs like Rhendon, some of the Knights with names you have to rescue in missions, and maybe even the Alpha Squad as legendaries (but probably not) After that, I'll be inventing a few NPCs to fill in specific roles that the Hall of Hero knights don't, like a Haze Bomb knight, (Remi is more of a all-round bomber) Vortex Bomb Knight, or a Shard Bomb knight. There's a big bunch of specialised armor too that Knights can be made to fit.
And then we could add in players and mimic their playstyle with cards. For example, I would be:

Abilities: Shield Feeder
If HexZyle activates a shield, the opponent must attack it, if possible (this will be useful because there are attacks that have negative effects on the user, and also during tag-team etc)

Equipment Restrictions:
Hipster: HexZyle can only equip normal damage guns and swords. There are no restrictions on what bombs he may equip.

Weapons with this knight's name:

HexZyle's Sudaruska
HexZyle's Volcanic Pepperbox
HexZyle's Ancient Plate Shield

And it's not like there's any shortage of NPCs to have as items. Here's a list of some of the NPC knights, and if we run out of those, we still have non-Knight NPCs like Strangers, Kats and a few others like Gracken.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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I like those ideas...but keep in mind this: I don't ever want any equipment restrictions. The closest this would be some ability (on the weapon or the user) which would nerf it to the floor. One thing that has annoyed me about PTCG is how if you're unlucky, you might become completely unable to do anything because you happened to pull up a rotten hand. The best way to fix this is to flood your deck with energy cards, but then how often will you get Pokemon who can use all them? I sorta wanted to make a bit of a faster paced game here...but maybe that's not such a good thing.

I'm planning on diversifying the types of cards quite a bit. Something like this:

Knights become Characters, with the 3 subgroups Knights, Gremlins, and Other.

Assisters get the groups Monsters and Battle Sprites. (Battle Sprites can level up. Monsters cannot.)

Items become Utilities, and get the subgroups Arenas, Characters, Materials, and Tools.

And on an unrelated note, I'm planning on designing some coin designs. Right now I can think of Cobalt, Tailed (Emberbreak), Kat, Chroma, and Devilite versions. I'll also make card-back designs eventually...unless someone else wants to. :P It would be best if you used the dimensions from the Cautery Sword. (Gimp tells me that that image comes out to 3.5 inches by 2.5 inches...I find it hard to believe.)

Finally, here is a link to a few 0* knights which I've thought of so far.

While I'm not too thrilled to have NPCs becoming Character cards like all the others, I'd be okay with them being somehow special Characters which couldn't be put into play like the others. I'm not sure how yet...maybe through having a certain knight + a certain Tool?

EDIT: And Arenas. I'll sort out the OP next.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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Updated the OP!

How many of you would like an Energy material card? I'm just wondering...

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Autofire

It's an interesting idea. Just remember that by increasing the requirements that it costs to upgrade Knights (I was thinking only having the Knight upgrade tree from Soldier to Vanguard, that's 4 levels, instead of 6) you're expecting your knights to stay in battle a lot longer than pokemon do in Pokemon TCG (only 3 levels, and a simple attack system based around only one type of card), otherwise Knights will frequently be knocked out long before they have any powerful equipment (and therefore Vanguards will never be played)

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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True. That's a very good point. I didn't really think of that...though I should have. I think I'm going to instead rate things from tiers, giving Tier 1 to start, then T2, and finally T3. With this, some weapons might change tier. (Like Brandish would go T1.) This would make things much easier to make, and make it...not so long to play a match.

Forum-Brady's picture
Forum-Brady
I wouldn't be thinking as

I wouldn't be thinking as much about how long an overall match is likely to last, and focus more on how long a specific Knight is likely to survive. Or conversely, how quickly and easy it will be to upgrade a Knight. They may only last five turns, but if it's realistic to upgrade them 4/5 times within that five turns then it's not a problem to have as many possible upgrades.

That really just comes down to how your upgrade system is implemented though; with what you seem to be going with, I agree that it's possible that upgrading based on Tiers might be easier to implement than upgrading based on star levels.
Sometimes easier is better; with TCGs you don't want things to be overly complicated after all. Your example with Magikarp and Gyrados is exactly the crux of the issue; if you required seven more cards from the deck to make them work, it would quickly stop feeling like it's worth the effort.
Then again, Yu-Gi-Oh had the Exodus cards which did actually require half a dozen separate cards played at the same time to make it work, but the rewards were vastly greater than "beefing up your guy", so.....

/me is rambling.
/shuts up.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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Don't shut up, please! Actually, the only TCG I know is PTCG... :P

It would take about 15-18 cards to get a full 5* knight with a pair of 5* weapons in the original idea...this was clearly flawed and it'd probably be rare that you'd ever even get that far.

Also, having usually 3 steps works much better for Gremlins and Underworlders. (By the way, Underworlders may be one or more of the following: Devilites, Phantoms, Almarian Crusaders, Void Thwackers, Trojans (TANKS!!!!!), and Corrupt knights. (The interesting thing about Corrupt knights is that they start as regular knights...))

Also, I'm thinking of two special kinds of cards: Unique Variants and Artifacts. You cannot have any copies of a Unique Variant card. (So...you can't have two Vaelyn cards in one deck, for example.) For Artifacts, you can only have one in each deck. These UV and Artifact cards would be more powerful than other cards, hence the restrictions.

Dreathuxy's picture
Dreathuxy
Card Idea

Name: Dreathuxy&Autofire

Hp: 200

Attacks: GF - 95HP, Punch Gun - for wiki purposes - 50HP

Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder

What's Yu-Gi------

Oh, that. I honestly do not like that and it does not interest me. Spiral knights cards would be good and I would like those cards to be sold

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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@Dreath

Claps

Good show! XD

I haven't been working on this for a little while, but I'll get some chances in the next few days!

Dreathuxy's picture
Dreathuxy
I made a card and new idea

In the pokemon TCG, there were players that had their own pokemon. Such as Blakes Ninetales and stuff like that.

I made: Dreath's GF - http://dreathuxy.deviantart.com/art/Spiral-Knights-TCG-373934103?ga_subm...

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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No offense, but that's so tiny that it won't work.

Yes, I know of that. And I will do that. (For example, Echo, Remi, and other HoH knights.) However, they are supposed to be rare. You wouldn't see them all the time.

Dreathuxy's picture
Dreathuxy
@Auto

Yeah I know, but it was just a concept card. I would NEVER make a card that small.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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Heh, ok, I understand.

Also, currently I'm planning on creating cards in a few phases in this order:

  1. Crash Landing: Basic Spiral tech and gear, as well as cards which have to do with the clockworks in general. This would probably be one of the biggest phase because it's the base one. I intend on thoroughly balancing and at the same time set this group up for including the next phases. (Without breaking/overpowering/under-powering the cards of this phase.) There would be no UV or Artifact type cards.
  2. Boss Blitz: Boss weapons and boss related cards. This excludes Gremlin tech, Gremlin weapons, and a few Shadowy items. A few UV cards would be included.
  3. Crimson Hammer: Gremlin tech and weapons, as well as Gremlin characters, get added. This would include a few gremlin-themed UV and Artifact cards.
  4. Krogmo Coliseum: Mostly consists of items obtained with Krogmo coins. There would be a few other Krogmo-related cards as well. A few more UV cards and Artifact cards would be included.
  5. Underworld Inferno: This phase is made up of shadowy creatures which thrive in the depths of the Clockworks. This adds Fiend, Undead, and Swarm themed cards. A few cards which aren't true to SK (AKA Corrupt cards) would be included.
  6. Heroic Hall: While there would be a few standard cards in this phase, this would consist almost entirely of UV and Artifact cards, all relating to the Spiral Order.
  7. Black Whitespace: This phase includes only Corrupt cards.

In a theoretical online version of this game, the cards would be released in phases such as these. No, I don't mean in a few huge updates. I mean it would start off with Crash Landing, and then go to Boss Blitz after finishing it.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
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I've recently made a new sword! Check it out! :P

A character 'r two are coming up next!