Spiral Knights - How do I get better?

How do I get better?

39 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 20:30

Klipik

Quick and simple. How do I get better at LD? How did you get better at LD? Can you answer either of these questions without saying "get UV's" or "get pulsar" or "get hammer" or "turn on AA"?

Background information on me (copied from post #3):

Experience: I've been playing LD since it was released, mostly in T2.

Style: swording guardian.

Loadout: Dusker coat +Dusker cap/Kat claw hood + TSB+SS in T2, Vog set + BTB + Faust/voltedge in T3.

Reason for making this thread: frustration at getting repeatedly beaten by relatively new players, and seeing the people who joined the game at the same time I did, and started LD at the same time I did, and even the people I saw as rookies and helped improve, become so much better than I am or ever was.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 20:41

Hexzyle

Fairly sure there have been countless LD guides that have come and gone through GD.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 21:19

Feyi-Feyi

Here goes.

disclaimer: I am not an expert. I consider myself to be a medium level LD player, but I do have a lot of experience.

I'll begin with an often overlooked part of LD: what you see on your screen doesn't necessarily reflect what is really happening.
Now how does this help? Range. Range is far more important than ASI, and when used wisely is both offensive and defensive.
Take the time to learn your range with different swords. You'll probably notice there's a little bit more range than the length of the sword
would lead you to believe. This is why AT peops seem to have this impossible range: it is there for everyone but you have to learn how to use it.

Learn your invinciframes!
Invinciframes are what make a player invulnerable for a very short period of time after a landed hit. Time your hits accordingly.
If you have the money: buy a weapon slot. A weapon dealing shock is your best friend, as it removes invinciframes, and stops a player dead in his/her tracks.

As for the rest: either become a clone (striker, pentas, GF, FF) or develop a style original enough to counter these clones.
Example: Dutch-Oven gunning as guardian, made the style his own.

Feyi

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 21:30

Klipik-Forum

A bit of background information on me.

Experience: I've been playing LD since it was released, mostly in T2.

Style: swording guardian.

Loadout: Dusker coat +Dusker cap/Kat claw hood + TSB+SS in T2, Vog set + BTB + Faust/voltedge in T3.

New Question: for the people who use more than two weapons, what do you use to switch between them?

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 21:47

Leekcoco

I use the mouse scroll wheel

I use the mouse scroll wheel to switch. :>

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 23:09

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Just so you know, currently I use 3* Seerus Mask, Dusker Coat, an Arc Razor, and a Shadowtech Alch. MK II. I did use bombs but right now I'm tuning up (and practicing for) a tournament.

As a recon, it feels so good to be able to dash from the shadows...literally!

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 23:23

Erlandr

i like to watch lagger play

i like to watch lagger play especially australian one, i think lagger are the best in the game because of the amount of foresight they have to understand in order to successfully land a hit. on their screen it look impossible but when you watch them it look normal. It look rudimentary to you but to them it require a great deal of knowledge.

Sat, 05/25/2013 - 23:51

Grimranger

@Klipik

I use a combination of scroll key + space bar.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 15:09

Slendern

Tips

- You move fastest when facing the direction of your boost. Try to face your boost as it's more efficient and faster, don't simply just back up. Turn around and either go back in and attack or back up gun and wait for an opening. Players using move forward I guess have an advantage in this case however they cannot gun well.
- After attacking a person spin off them; you don't wanna stay on them because invinciframes stop you from attacking them immediately anyway so you back off for a sec so they can't hit you and then go back in. You spin off them because its faster and more efficient. So basically, hit then spin off minimizing the window in which you can be hit.
- Don't hold down your boost the whole fight. Use it to go in and get a quick attack in, then back out letting go of boost. If they look open you can go in again right after or back up and wait for them to boost at you.
- People dashing at you are far easier to hit then if you're boosting at them. So try not to chase people. To hit someone boosting at you simply boost to their side right when they're gonna come to you and hit.
- Attack from the bottom of the map. It gives you a viewing angle advantage in which the other person has less time to react to your moves.
- Hybrid. Bring a gun along with swords. Poke them with Val, AP, etc and when they come close its an easy hit. Just shoot guns anytime you're out of melee range and when they come close hit once and spin off and attempt to juggle them or back off again keep poking and repeat. Guns are also great for interrupting attacks and freezing people who are coming at you. When you're out off boost freeze them with val and move around and most likely you can recover your boost.
- Wait for the right times. Cues to go attack and go aggressive are when a person finishes a combo, they're out of boost, charging, right after a missed attack (if they're really close), or boosting at you. You can generally play more aggressive when your close to base to heal or fighting someone you know you can take out easily.
- Go for the sides or backs of people while attacking them with swords. It's harder to counter.
- When going offensive never dash straight at them, try to curve your path a bit, especially against gunners.
- Juggling (kinda). Hit them then spin off then back in and immediately hit them again once they're off frames. This stops them from being able to attack you as you back off them while they have frames. They then are interrupted as soon as they are vulnerable again.
- Map weapons to separate keys. IMO faster and more precise switching. Which is necessary if playing a hybrid loadout.
- Try to be unpredictable.
- When fighting hammer just side step the dash, then boost in and attack their side while they're swinging the hit before the dash. It's also easy to hit someone dashing at you with val, or with an alch which might even hit twice.
- Using a Gran Faust. Rarely should you ever double swing it leaves a very large opportunity in which you can be hit. Sure GF combos can net high damage in some matches, but generally if you're fighting someone decent it'll end badly for you.
- Always move. Much harder to hit someone who's moving even when you're out of boost. Even when capping moving is nice; you never know if someone's coming for a surprise attack.
- Aiming a gun. You have to predict where they're gonna be, more so with slower guns. No AA doesn't help with gunning; the reticule doesn't even lock on to targets far away.
- Play LD a lot. Just see what works. Hopefully your brain picks up on what works in situations and continues to do em.
- - A lot of this game is simply twitch gameplay and experience. You gotta be able to know when to go in and when not to without thinking about it. Something simple like turning your mouse around after hitting. I definitively don't think about it anymore, I do it automatically. Or like knowing what weapons to use in situations and switching to them without thinking.
- This is really just stuff I seem to do. I could and may add more but maybe these don't work well for you. People say I generally play defensively and you may not like that. Also In writing this I hope I don't come off very pretentious.
- Honestly the best advice I can give is play a lot of LD. And not just playing, playing with wanting to get better and actually fixing what you're doing wrong and continuing to do what works. If you just play a lot without trying to improve you're just gonna continue doing what doesn't work.

Bacon makes some good posts. Here and here.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 16:50

Redblades

Bacon-strip: I took Exileddread's quick movements and pinpoint accuracy, I took Ruby's aggressiveness and willingness to risk it all when it was necessary to save the game. And I took what I believe to be the most important, I took Sciasz's ability to know when to fight defensively, and ability to stay alive longer. Those were my goals, to fuse these together to form the perfect lockdown player. Well, better than average. Super Saiyan Bacon.

After reading that, I died

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 20:43

#10

Klipik

lol slender

I think you missed the part where I said I play guardian. And T2.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 21:25

#11

Gwenyvier

Practice, practice, practice.

Using a weapon can teach you how the weapon works, how it makes you move... and how it will make an opponent move. And it teaches you when somebody is using AA and when they're not, which may change how you fight them. AA Hammer moves much different than non-AA Hammer, just for an example.

Take the weapons you like and work with them. A lot of people pick FF/BTB, personally I prefer heavy swords... so the Hammer is my go to weapon. Others, like Ezho, prefer guns, and are equally deadly with them. Bombers in LD tend to be mostly support, as a smart player isn't going to wander into bomb radius for a damage bomb, or for a status bomb unless they're immune to it.

The class you take also effects your play style, but I am sure you can figure out which class you are good at playing on your own.

~Gwen

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 21:26

#12

Slendern

Oh sorry. It was just a copy

Oh sorry. It was just a copy and paste though. Thought it might help. I guess next time I should read.

Sun, 05/26/2013 - 23:51

#13

Goofio

Honestly, most guardians in T2 are just sitting ducks. Don't feel bad.

Strikers can just boost up and hit you with 1 or 2 hammer combos and your shield is gone. In addition, the hammer's natural attack pattern is difficult for a guardian to defend. The pattern is basically: swing hammer -> dash through guardian (causing damage with the dash) -> repeat until shield is broken.

The best advice I can give you: use a combination of a fast gun (such as blaster or antigua) and a fast sword (such as flourish or brandish). Interrupt anybody that approaches you with the first swing of your flourish (shield cancel). When they back off, shoot your gun at them. Only use the full combo of your flourish if you think the next hit will finish them off, and they're too far away to hit with the first swing.

But seriously, when you're playing guardian, some players are extremely difficult to kill.

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, what kind of Internet connection do you have (how many bars do you get)?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 00:34

#14

Klipik

I'd say, pretty good.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 00:51

#15

Goofio

Wow, I was thinking your ping could be part of the problem, but apparently that isn't the case. :O

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 00:56

#16

Hexzyle

I'd say, Ha.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 03:05

#17

Dragneel-Wiki

Sorry Klipik... But you should practice more....
With that freaking smooth connection, you mustn't die ever, as you can dodge attacks waaay easier than Pingers like us...
I feel pity.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 04:16

#18

Bzzts

Except his PC could be pretty bad. I have trouble in danger missions because too many enemies spawn at once, my screen freezes and I run into a trap that kills me.

This must be even worse in 6v6 LD where everyone has accessories, there are the snow particles and there are 12 people's connections to take into account.

If it's not your PC, then just practice.

Also, you can often have different ping with different servers, as in your connection to the test websites could be amazing, but connection to the SK servers could be sub par (meaning you have in game lag).

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 04:31

#19

Troupe-Forums

Erlandr deserves a piece of cake

On Topic:
Pracitce. I find that I play worse when I'm frustrated, so go vent some rage on the denizens of FSC or people in some other game and come back when you're calmer

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 06:09

#20

Redblades

Aight fine I'll give you a bit of advice:

Be flexible. Just use different kinds of weapons. Since you're a guardian, carry a long range gun, a fast sword (I prefer flourish as guardian), a hammer (or other hard hitting sword), and most importantly a bomb.
Use dash for defense, not offense.
Use your shield to prevent "hitstun". Don't use it to tank hits. It's much too weak to tank hits.
If they're using a fast sword, swing when they go for a hit. that way they won't hit you, and you will hit them. proceed to hit them with your heavy sword.
If they're using a slow sword, swing when they go for a hit, OR block their first hit with your shield, and then hit them with your fast sword.
Don't walk into the enemies. go around them to cap.
While capping, concentrate on the bottom of the screen to see if anything appears. Also, drop bombs while you're at it.
Toggle AA, but keep it off. It's vital for team fights, because AA/AT redirects your hit to a single enemy, meaning that you won't hit the entire group. Toggle AA when you need to combo somebody (I do it alot, I believe Vokster does too).
Independant switching. Make sure weapon 1 is mapped to a key, weapon 2 is mapped to a key, etc.. It's alot faster and more accurate than scrolling through each and every one of your weapons every time.

If you'd like, I could play you a bit in t3.

Oh yeah. Always throw your keyboard at your monitor before you play. it gives you a 30 minute damage bonus very high with all weapons.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 09:29

#21

Klipik

Thanks everyone!

@Bzzts: I don't think my PC is the problem. I don't even have one.

@Red: What would you suggest if I only use two weapons? And what keys do you use if you're using three or more?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 09:47

#22

Dragneel-Wiki

@Klipik:

You have no other excuse for not playing well now. Beast connection and a decent PC, you just need to use your brain to form an image of what are you going to fight and how to fight it back.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 10:04

#23

Bzzts

haha, guess that's not a problem then. And PC means personal computer, is that mac your PC?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 11:18

#24

Redblades

try to use 3 weapons. I'll rank them in order according to a bomber playstyle and a sword playstyle.

bomber playstyle
1. haze
2. fast sword
3. gun
4. slow sword

sword playstyle
1. fast sword
2. gun
3. heavy sword
4. bomb.

if you have a gaming mouse like myself, assign each weapon to a button on your mouse. it'll take a while to get used to, but its worth it. if not, scroll up, down, space and shift for 1 weapon each.
its what I use for fps games too

edit: holy crap your computer and connection. I wish I had that

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 11:38

#25

Our-Little-Ajo

Damn

With that latency, I could achieve 60k dmg easly.

Want some tips??

1.- Don't listen to noob if you don't want to be one of them.
2.- Eat french fríes until your fingers look like one
3.- If you have no skill, turn on AT, use ce rez and spam, you will get 30k easly.
4.- Go to the church
5.- F@p a lot
6.- Tell your mom you love her (and that I love her too)
7.- Do your homework
8.- Don't use drugs or at least not that much
9.- There's a good game called "Outside" go and play some
10.- Listen to Justin Bieber, west a skirt, sing "Baby loud" and name yourself Contri.. 100% success.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 11:33

#26

Redblades

feller come to my house bby ;)

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 11:41

#27

Our-Little-Ajo

I can do that

But I NEED to sleep "Spoon Style"

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:29

#28

Bleyken

Bah... those noobies....
If you wanna be a pro like me:

1- Dont listen to RedblAAdes
2- Dont listen to Feller
3- Dont use AT
4- Use Polaris+Heavy Sword+Toothpick and a bomb if you know how to use 4 weapons easily.
5- When you kill someone, yawn
6- When someone kill you, yawn
7- When you start a game, yawn
8- When you finish a game, yawn
9- When someone call you noob, yawn
10- When someone call you spammer, yawn
11- If someone say he is better than you, yawn 3 times
12- Dont die and kill everyone.
13- Dont cap, is for noobies, if all the enemies are dead and you cant do anything sit and yawn but NEVER in a cap point.
14- Call people noobies.
15- Be awesome like me.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 12:32

#29

Redblades

Of course mistar feller!

@contri
I think you need sleep, you look tired.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:42

#30

Feyi-Feyi

here goes:

Contri gibe best advice evah.
You could also use /giggle instead of yawn to keep it interesting.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:58

#31

Klipik

Could we keep it a little more serious, please?

@Red: Wow, I tested your suggestion just in the ATH with two weapons and it's hard enough. I mapped weapon 1 and 2 to the forward/back buttons on the left side of the mouse, and weapons 3 to the scroll wheel (even though I don't have a slot). This seem ok?

P.S: I have this thing.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:08

#32

Redblades

Nice mouse :O . I prefer having my third weapon on the button, and the first 2 weapons on my scroll wheel (up and down) because I'm used to using the scroll wheel. Practice it, and you'll never use the wrong weapon again!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:11

#33

Icegill

!mooᗺ

Just keep playing lockdown, eventually your brain starts coming up with counterattacks. It just takes longer for some people. Ping really doesn't matter, I don't think. I have horrible connection to the servers, disconnect often and always at 2-4 bars (!?!??!?!), yet I think I do pretty good.

I think a priority for me is not getting frustrated. Just because a new person comes along and kills you in random lockdown doesn't mean he's better, lol. If you lose in a spontaneous 1v1 with this new person, who cares? Overall score and winning % are the only things you should care about. I have always been at the same skill level, maybe better now than before. When LD first came out, I had basically the same mentality I have now, cap > defend > win. I just didn't have the right gear to really do much about it (levithan and an AP won't get you as far as a regular skolver layout would).

Or you could go the #1Bestias way. LDislyfe.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 23:46

#34

Klipik

@Ice

I figure if I've been smashing my head against the glass ceiling for 1.5 years and nothing major's happened, I must be doing something wrong.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 00:15

#35

Reto-Da-Liz

My tips: ASI helps. As a

My tips:

ASI helps. As a guardian it helps a lot. Those strikers are fast, you'll need to as fast, effective and smart as possible.
Spend your 250-300k cr to buy a Sealed ASI med and a Flourish ASI med.
Drop half vog and put on half chaos. It will make bombing much easier.
As primary bomb, Voltaic Tempest is the most effective, but also the one most opponents try to get immune to.
As a gun, i always used alchemers (love the charge), but a faster gun would have helped many times.

Using 3 weapons (as a guardian) i always went with:

Hail Driver (mouse wheel up)
Voltaic Tempest (mouse wheel down)
Gran Faust (Spacebar)

Practice shield cancel and fast switching. Usually bomb to gun will be the switch you will need the most. People will start spamming polaris and all sorts of stuff at you. Keep bombing (try to create a "safe zone" for your team and yourself) and shoot some bullets.
Always try to fight staying inside your bombs. A good guardian bomber can keep a single point for several minutes.
Use the dash defensively, not to attack (remember you are a guardian).

Also, remember that guardians are never praised as much as they should.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 08:41

#36

Neodasus

If you are serious about

If you are serious about becoming a better striker then you need to get rid of Skolver. Don't get me wrong, the damage bonus is fine but if you really want to do some damage then go full Mercurial and start using Acheron. The Brandish line has greater vertical range than the Florish and ultimately outperforms it vs current metagame (Skolver, Chaos). The lack of a DMG bonus beyond medium is irrelevant due to free damage from shadow. You'll end up doing more damage per strike compared to flourish at VH to maximum damage vs meta. The MSI makes you nearly impossible to predict or flat out counter 1 on 1. I've seen players use this set and score 20k on average. You still get piercing defense, but what you really want is that MSI to raise the skill ceiling.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 09:28

#37

Zeddy

If you're going to be a guardian, you might as well bring a haze bomb. Toxic Vaporizer MkII is a good one, noone in T2 is going to defend against that. Same is true for most haze bombs, really, but Toxic Vaporizer has that magical combination of both being effective against everyone while at the same time making people engage you inside it. If your opponent deals less damage and takes more damage, then guess what? You've got the advantage.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 17:05

#38

Redblades

@neodasus
no way. don't even go there. 1v1 me in merc with acheron. I'll stick with my skolver or chaos, thanks.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 17:27

#39

Neodasus

I'm not that kind of player.

I'm not that kind of player. Ask Kyoshiro to do it

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