Spiral Knights - The striker skill plateau.

The striker skill plateau.

99 replies [Last post]

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 14:56

Feyi-Feyi

I'm posting this because I think there are a lot of players experiencing the same.
You are a LD striker. You have your gear, you know the game.
You probably do around 14k average every game, and you know you're a valuable asset to your team.
Every once in a while you do good and go 20k+.

And then your skill level stalls. You keep on doing that same 14k.
You keep on dying just a little bit too much to make the game your own.
You feel like you don't make progress anymore.
And yet there are people that do better. I won't give names but they're the Ld people you heard about.

This is what I call the Striker skill plateau.
And now I'm asking: how do you still improve after you've reached it?
I know Bacon-Strip wrote about it on Jemp forum, but I want some other people joining in the conversation.

*I don't want no 'caps is what win games, omg damage hog' in this thread.
Caps are for GvG, this is for fun in RLd*

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:05

Bleyken

I can't reach it, only 6 or 7 players can make me have fun in RLD and I can't compare my skill with the others and each my "skill plateau" if I dont have enough players in my level.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:06

Bzzts

Erm, I thought best players cap and get damage?

But from what I've been told the rest seems accurate

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:27

Feyi-Feyi

@Contri: if you feel like

@Contri: if you feel like there is no challenge in RLD, you might already be above the plateau.
Don't want to boost your ego though so i'll just /yawn.

/giggle.

@bzzts: You are 100% right. That's just not what this thread is about :)
I'm not a damage hog but I use the term damage here because currently
it's the only thing reflecting how much people you beat in a game.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:27

Feyi-Feyi

Double post, sigh.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 15:37

Little-Juances

Try something new?
Maybe if you start over with different weapons, you'll do less damage at the beggining, but get even greater values in the end.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 16:43

Redblades

As bacon said, you have to learn from other players.
I constantly learn from people who are better than me. Namely Reqy, with his crazy gun accuracy and good movement, Ruby with his aggressiveness and Huntr with his maneuvering skill. There are others but I can't name them right now.

You should learn to play defensively when it's needed. Meaning you keep distance with guns (which Thrillhaus was very good at) and strike with your sword when there's an opportunity (Dravor's a beast at this).

Also, learn to risk everything. I constantly run into huge groups that are capping, because I want to stall them. I play aggressively to get them off the cap, and I distract them for a while, as my team caps. That skill, in my opinion, is one of the best skills you can have. Not only are you getting damage and defending, you're buying your team some time.

Toggle AT. It's a good thing to have it off (because of huge group fights), but when you combo, AT helps alot. Taking the best of both worlds will increase your killing efficiency.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:36

Zeddy

Have you tried pouring millions of crowns into max UVs?

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:43

Feyi-Feyi

Thankies

@Redblades: I'm an arrowkey player so guns is out of the question. I too feel I should use them but sadly I cant :(
Also: very strong dislike of AT, not turning it on unless I lag like hell.
But yeah, I do learn from better players as you said. I do backcap and take on a whole team if need, or play guard.
However: I want to be one of those players that do that.. And come out alive. The ones that live the whole game.
And I can't for the love of god find out how.

@Zeddy: It's not the gear. I have good ASI (GF asi vh, FF asi med)
and some decent defensive UV's (skolver shadow high+ normal med)

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 18:50

Neodasus

I think making the switch to

I think making the switch to Acheron is the first step.

Most of the success players have averaging 20k per game is some either some third-eye precognition crap, good survival skills (more time alive = more damage), or just really bad players on the opposite team.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:07

#10

Redblades

@feyi-feyi
Against good players, you will not come out alive. I've tried many times during GvG.
Against normal RLD players however, you will come out alive (with enough skill). You need to have good maneuvering skill to get in and out of the group quickly, and learn how to play defensively (even without guns). Add/Mail me in-game if you need any help or have any questions :)

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:11

#11

Feyi-Feyi

Hullo.

@Neodasus: brandish line without AT is madness, I have an acheron though so i'll give it a go.

@Redblades: Thanks for your answer in this thread, I'll PM you in-game!

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:36

#12

Neodasus

In theory, because of

In theory, because of valiance being so tied to the striker perk--I would say the skill ceciling is theoretically infinite because one could use a valiance and never miss.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:40

#13

Icegill

Boom!

I usually give paragraph after paragraph of LD advice to those who ask for it but I'm going word this perfectly and not too complicated. I'm also going to say this based on no caps, no damage hog, no defends - just for fun RLD as you stated.

Think, don't play.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 19:54

#14

Feyi-Feyi

@Icegill

Just want to make sure: Did you really mean think, don't play or play, don't think?

If it is the former: I always think about which strategy to use vs which player and where to cap/what class I should be.
However, it doesn't help anymore. It helped me get an understanding of the game mechanics but I feel
I still lose to many battles that could have been won if it wasn't for that last hit, that one boost too much, that..

As for Play, don't think: yeah, I'm all for fun but lately it has annoyed me so much it's getting in the way of my fun.

If you have the time: direct me to one of those paragraphs of LD advice, so I can at least reaffirm wether I'm doing it right or not.

thanks;

Feyi

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:21

#15

Neodasus

After a while you don't have

After a while you don't have to play manually when everything is muscle memory.

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 20:50

#16

Dragonicblaze

Like a mindless zombie? nah

Like a mindless zombie? nah ;p

Mon, 05/27/2013 - 21:05

#17

Spookington

I think you worded it very well

Partially has to do with weapons. Anything but the toothpick/GF mold for strikers seems to net less damage on average, unless the other team is filled with morons.

Also - like I said earlier - morons: how many of 'em? If you've got inexperienced or generally dumb people charging at you from out of the spawn in a well-timed stream you can rack up quite a murder train. It's why so many "damage-whores" just wait by the closest CP and wait for less skilled players to come at them. Doesn't work as well when against similarly skilled/armed opponents.

Tied in to the last one - just teams in general - I notice that when I'm on a really good team, I tend to score less damage because I can never find anybody because the rest of my team has killed everyone and is now camping the other team's spawn.

I can't really give many tips on form/technique, as I myself prefer to do the most counter-intuitive s*** imaginable with a BTB/DVS loadout, but to give yourself the best opportunity for ERMERGERD DERMERGE WHERING!, be the first out; make a bee-line for the CP closest to the enemy team; after killing players on the point, don't waste time capping; camp the other team's bases when they're no one left alive outside of it.

Disgraceful and over generalized, but that's how to up your damage quickly. Granted, you'll need skill and a good connection for the actual fighting, but that's the general outline: nonstop fighting - if you notice, that's how some players can have insane damage scores, but still lose the game.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:20

#18

Feyi-Feyi

@Spookington

I might have not worded it that well if you think i'm all about damage.
It is mentioned as a representation of how much battles you won, that's what this is about for me.

I want to learn how to become better than the average 14k striker, who indeed has no problem killing noobs by the dozens.
To learn how to kill the other average strikers, not once, but consistently.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:34

#19

Bleyken

You can't learn without skill....
/yawn

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 08:57

#20

Spold

Some things that people are saying are what I prefer seeing more than what most people say. You guys say Lockdown isn't about captures, damage, or defends... it's for fun. I feel like that, but there are some obnoxious players that treat damage like it's the only thing that matters. People are always like "Damage matters also.", but I'm not trying to say they're less important. I'm just so @#$%ing sick of people thinking that it's ONLY about damage. They said ONLY damage... I'm not making a post about capturing being more important because I realized that all three Lockdown stats have equality, but the people who treat damage like it's the only thing on the scoreboard makes me feel like stopping my circulation.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 09:05

#21

Canozo

Contri be trolling erryday

Contri be trolling erryday all day.

@Spold
RLD is all about having fun in my opinion, I think people usually go for Damage since other might say "whoa, dat bic boi got 24k damage he so gud", yet if you just simply win the game and you dont get big damages, wont be much of a big deal.

I never cap in randoms, just in GvG.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 10:58

#22

Spookington

Oh.

Yeah I admit, I just skimmed the OP.

Uh... I guess just do what everyone else has been saying. Time, practice. Also - patience - that's good too, I personally like to hang back and wait for opponents to f*** up first.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:19

#23

Our-Little-Ajo

@Feyi and no one else

Well my first and most valuable tip is :

Never listen to people who use AT and depend on that feature.

Why ?

Simple, is like asking a FPS player that use aimbot "Teach me how to kill"

There are currently 2 maybe 3 players that can answer your questions, and be sure they will never post here.

If you really want to pass the average player without the use of AT, we can talk in-game.

Only if you want of course.

I'm answering this way, because I was reading your posts, you're against the active use of AT, unless you have ping (I always have ping and for me that's no excuse), and I still have a small amount of hope in LD community.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:27

#24

Icegill

Boom!

@Feyi: Yes, I mean 'think, don't play'. Initially, this is the best way to learn the mechanics of the game, as you said, and more. As neo said, the rest is basically muscle memory. It's true if you play LD for a long time, eventually you will learn how to surpass others via skill naturally. It takes longer for some people and that's why you're underpowered when facing people with skill. Everyone should also learn their own playstyle. All people do now is copy the elite players of the tier which is sort of annoying but smart. The easiest way to get above average is probably Feller's way. Simply get a flourish and a GF and spam spam spam. This teaches frame timing, movement skills, reaction timing, juggling, etc. I would suggest putting on AT just to learn the jist of aiming. You could leave that off and learn too but it's going to be a tad harder.

But please, PLEASE don't turn into the comment above me. His playstyle may be above average but good god, that EGO!

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 16:53

#25

Our-Little-Ajo

Levels... according to Feyi, she/he wants lvl 4

LVL 0

Players that recently end missions, and start LD for first time with any crappy wep/gear

LVL1

Is easy, grab a black kat cowl, chaos, skolver, turn on AT (with 1-2-3-4-5 bars latency) and spam like no tomorrow.

LVL 2

AT + 3 - 4 bars, mantain distance and use your good latency + Valiance and spam 2 hits GF or DA with AT, or a 3 hit combo with Brandish line when you have a chance. Once a week you will get 30k, once in a lifetime 40k.

LVL 3

Play with no AT, you will fail over and over again, in a day you will want to turn it on again.. just to get 20k and feel "unique" again... lame but at least you're trying, a 99% chance of going back to LVL 2.

LVL 4

AT off, no need of CE rez to get 30k+, no matter the latency, you always make a difference, and no matter the set/UVs/map you will mantain your average.

In this lvl there are no place for gamepad users (AT dependant), pure keyboard user (Same), you WILL need a mouse.

This lvl will never be a clone

Why?

Simple, there are not more than 10 players that can mantain their lvl without AT, no matter the set, this style is UNIQUE.

Cano is one of my favorites, he can give you some advices if you don't want to talk to me.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 17:26

#26

Klipik

So...

What if, according to Feller's scale, I am stuck at level three and too stubborn to give up even though I've been there for about a year now but I can't figure out how to get better?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 17:29

#27

Our-Little-Ajo

Then

Give up.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:22

#28

Icegill

Boom!

I wouldn't worry too much about AT, it makes no difference in my view but not everyone is the same. If you're a brandish user, I suggest turning it on for the time being.

@Klipik: I would give up if you're not going anywhere. Einstein defined insanity as trying the same thing expecting different results :o

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 18:53

#29

Redblades

AT doesn't do much unless you're comboing or using brandish (or standing and using sentenza). It actually MESSES YOU UP in group fights because it's a "aimbot" feature, and aims for only 1 enemy. then you will miss the rest of the group, and they will eat you alive.

To get the best of both worlds (easy comboing and good group fights), I recommend toggling. I use it myself (on left ctrl), and it's useful.

@feller really? I can hardly name 5 who haven't quit.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 19:30

#30

Our-Little-Ajo

yeah could be.

But I'm sure we disagree in those names.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 20:07

#31

Skold-The-Drac

I really don't get you guys

But then again I never actively stuck in t3. Or gained any real reputation amongst the ld community. Scrubs are good too :p

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 20:29

#32

Aiden-Curry-Puff

From the sounds of it you've

From the sounds of it you've reached a level where the only things you have left to try are switching your weapons/controls. Mouse wasd should theoretically give you more accuracy.

On a rather unrelated note and a slight thread hijack...anyone have any advice for a player with a permanent red dot connection?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 20:33

#33

Skold-The-Drac

don't play?

Permanent red dot is suicide in lagdown. I know some red-dot's who play decent team bn though.

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 20:47

#34

Klipik-Forum

@Feller and Ice

What if I take out the part where I've been trying for a year? What advice would you have to break into the next level?

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 22:30

#35

Feyi-Feyi

@ Feller

Of course I'd like your advice. I may not like the way you act on the fora but you're a great LD player and that is all that matters here for me.

I'll give you a PM in-game :)

@Icegill/redblades: Thank you both for your advice; both in-game (Redblades) or here (Ice).

I'll try to maintain my own style while becoming a hybrid of everybody giving me advice here.
Already noticed that when I become frustrated and start playing on pure experience I play worse than when I'm calm and calculated.

For everybody still reading/commenting here: please continue, there is no such thing as 1 opinion or way to become better here.

Feyi

Tue, 05/28/2013 - 22:35

#36

Misten

If you feel that your skill

If you feel that your skill has plateau, you can try to increase your latency by changing server. US- europe or europe-US. If you are still good after that, you are welcome to create an account in Asian server where you will versus opponents with insane less latency because they live in the same area where the server is hosted. After you went through hell, you then come back to your original server and your skill will reach new height.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 03:00

#37

Icegill

Boom!

@Klip: I've seen you play in tier 2 and tier 3. You literally do nothing wrong. You aim for caps, you fight well as a guardian and you kill enemies in the toughest situations. The problem with you is that you're looking for high damage numbers out of a vog suit. You don't need to get high damage to be good, you don't need ASI to be good. Find a tuning of ASI you like (low, med or high), get a skolver set (I've only seen you play in vog) and then play some LD while trying hard.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 09:27

#38

Feyi-Feyi

@Misten

I'll clarify because there have been people before that misunderstood me.

I'm not talking about my personal skill plateau. Instead I'm talking about a more general one, where most of the players run into.
There are a lot of players that get to where I am, and only some that get above that level.

It is your average 14k striker, about 4 caps/defends each game, that occasionally has a really good game where he/she
doesn't really die that much and is able to control the map resulting in higher damages (20k+).
There are a lot of those around, hence why I called it a general striker skill plateau.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 10:20

#39

Grugwasasailor

huehuehuehue

US-EU and vice versa yields less than 250ms ping unless you are living on the extremities of the continents which is still pretty playable. Mistens idea about playing on the asian server is more likely to make him rage-quit than improve as the data is bound to travel over some hilariously choppy parts of Asia's network.

If you really want to get over that plateau then you should play during asia-pacific primetime no doubt you will achieve damages beyond 20-30k as them asians struggle for their data to get through a bottleneck.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 10:31

#40

Canine-Vladmir

Want to get out of the Striker Plateau?

Simple.
Step 1: Ask your mother for her credit card
Step 2: Buy some CE from the SK Client
Step 3: Sell CE at high prices and pretend like you earned it
Step 4: Buy Better gear than everybody else
Step 5: Roll for some UVs like ASI or CTR and get some Shock Resist Max
Step 6: Continue to pretend that what your doing is fair
Step 7: Dont forget them Heart Trinkies!
Step 8: Turn on AA and use every spam combo you know
Step 9: Pretend that you have skills and what you did is totally fair and legit
Step 10: Score 25K+ and feel like a winner.

Guys, do you see how many steps it takes? We should really respect the "pros" because it seems like its alot of work to be the best. So yes, DMG>Caps+Defends and SPAM>any ounce of skill you got

(:< ʞɔɐq ʎldǝɹ oʇ ʇoıpı ǝɯos ɹoɟ ʇıɐʍ :dǝʇs ʇsɐl

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:15

#41

Krakob

If I were you, I'd go for win/loss ratio rather than damage. If you win a battle or the enemy flees, it's a win. If you die or flee, it's a loss. Damage doesn't really mean you're actually doing well. Regardless, don't go for damage. Go for well fought battles and defended points.

To comment on my own skill, I usually land at roughly 10k damage. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I pretty much always top caps in my team with 2x average caps, except when Seranah's around :3

As for defends... They're silly.

I haven't made any improvement in quite a while, anyway. Wondering where my flaws lie and what I need to work on. I often derp input because analogue triggers aren't always good for precision. If I could use the triggers of a GC controller, it'd be glorious. I often wear only one tetra so that's a big minus. I'm also not sure what gear I should really wear. I've got BKC, all Wolver line gear, Chaos Cloak... I've currently got BKC+Vog as standard. Weapons are BTB and GF. Switching between Valiance and Sentenza a bit. I'm told Valiance is a lot stronger but I'm not very sure and I'd definitely like to see some concrete damage numbers. I do believe myself to be better with Sentenza due to the bullet speed as I'm AT dependent because gamepad aiming, man. I can do sneaky aiming and stuff but it's hard and I generally have more luck hitting with Sentenza than Valiance. Swords are mostly unaffected by this, anyway.
Any tips, gentlemen?

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:02

#42

Glacies

In this lvl there are no place for gamepad users (AT dependant)

>No place for Gamepad users
>I'm a Gamepad user
>Says AT Dependant
>Doesn't use AT in LD

Your logic is flawed, Feller. And before you say it, I've reached 30k constantly before or have just hit the barrier or going into 30k. Gamepad uses do have problems aiming at least with guns and sometimes aiming in general, I can vouch for this. I don't know how many people actually use Gamepads in Lockdown or if they do how many of them use Auto-Target. (Honestly, doesn't matter to me since if I die by the, I just go back and kick their butt)

But saying Gamepad users are AT dependent is just like saying that Mouse + Keyboard users are AT dependent because of a large majority of them using it. The way you play shouldn't matter, we're all just gamers.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:34

#43

Neodasus

Actually Feller is

Actually Feller is half-correct in what he is saying. I've been using gamepad since launch, and it is more suited to walking perks like guardian and recon that require more of a sense of timing rather than aim. However, he is pulling things out of his ass when he says gamepad users are AT-dependant. I use an 8-way directional pad and have better aim than 99% of the playerbase.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:42

#44

Krakob

@Glacies

I'm a bit curious. What gamepad and control scheme do you use?

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 11:53

#45

Eclaium

I'm just wondering how many of you are giving Feyi advices as an Arrowkey user.
I don't know any average-good LD players who use pure Arrow key apart from Feyi, Njthug and me (but I don't play much anymore).

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 12:00

#46

Bleyken

Feyi, Nj and you aren't good

Feyi, Nj and you aren't good LD players.... ;)

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 12:19

#47

Dragneel-Wiki

@Eclaium:

Rdzknightz
Skybrandon
Daystorm (Apparently)
Monestr

And there are quite many...

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 12:22

#48

Our-Little-Ajo

Sweet.

+1 to contri's comment,

@Neo

You are, as far as I know a recon, the main subject is refering to strikers, so my gamepad comment is STILL 100% accourate.

@Glacies

No idea who you are, I cannot make comments about your gameplay if I haven't fight you, and I can't confirm you're above average without AT for the same reason.

Maybe and just maybe there are gamepad / pure keyboard users that don't use AT, but I seriously doubt they can be above average.

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 12:32

#49

Our-Little-Ajo

Dragneel

1.- AT dependant
2.- AT dependant
3.- AT dependant
4.- AT dependant
5.- AT dependant

Any other noob name in your mind?

Btw,

Njthug as a striker, he's an incredible mercha... unmm wait no... As a merchant he's an incredible P2P player.. Unless he play some other game that comes with a striker class.. Maybe he's good there..

Wed, 05/29/2013 - 12:33

#50

Glacies

You've probably forgotten. I was in two matches with you about two weeks ago. You were in Black Kat Cowl and Ancient Plate and I was the Chaos Cowl and Vog Cub Coat user in the Gardens. After the match someone was asking for help and you starting going off at him/her and put them on ignore.

You've fought me before.

Search

The striker skill plateau.