Spiral Knights - This community is ill.

This community is ill.

51 replies [Last post]

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:13

Feyi-Feyi

First off, I love this game's community. It is what keeps me coming back to this game, more than LD or PvE ever could.
But we have a problem, we as a whole.

Every time I come on these fora, I see complaint after complaint.
If it it isn't veterans complaining about boredom, or people ranting about LD, someone else finds something new to complain.
I understand the need to vent opinions, I do so myself.
However: I need to look very hard to find the positive threads here. They do exist, and are wonderful.
It's just that the number of people trying to actively do something is dwarfed by complainiacs.

This is a thank you towards those people that do try to make it better.
This is a rude gesture towards the complainiacs.

*Yes, I see the irony in "complaining" about complaining. Shut up, there's no other way to do so.
I made some threads myself in suggestions to help where I felt I could*

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:30

Blue-Flood

Your best bet is to stay away

Your best bet is to stay away from forums. Much easier to spread the love in game :p

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 01:34

Bleyken

Keep crying noobie...

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:32

Aureate

sees complaints in forums

complains in forums about complaints in forums

how terribly meta.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 02:48

Hexzyle

People's stupidity flows out strongest when they're given a text box to write whatever they want with however many letters as they want.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 03:05

Feyi-Feyi

@ aureate

Try to read the whole OP, there's a section at the bottom dedicated to people like you.
Also this isn't 9gag, nobody talks like that.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 03:12

Hexzyle

Also this isn't 9gag, nobody talks like that.

That is completely irrelevant. 9gag isn't the only place that people are allowed to use memes.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:47

Mtax

Feyi,

Wow, someone at last noticed it. ^_____^""

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 05:57

Little-Juances

The more you hate it, the stronger it gets...

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 06:06

Mtax

I always missed forum PvP here.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 06:30

#10

Heavy-Dragon

Ignore the whiners

And be part of the solution for positivity. OOO tries to pick and choose the truth out of the sea of baww, no need for you to do so as well. Sail it with a boat of yay or whatever.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 07:07

#11

Grimranger

Oh, this thread again..

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:36

#12

Diamondshreddie

I see and dont see

I know what you mean, forums of all kinds can get choc full of frequent complaints and rants, but when you take a step back, you see that even the most terribly thought out complaint or remark helps to feed the flow of development and ideas.

Or it's just too early in the morning for me to be thinking out loud. Oh well.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 09:49

#13

Jiker

Well...

This is how I think it is.

If you are enjoying a great sunset, then you just sit there and watch it slowly fade away, admiring the utter beauty and simplicity of nature. However, if there is a bloody great thunderstorm outside and it is ripping the world apart, you are clearly going to want to say something, even though there is not much that can be done.

Change is something you need to ask for, you need to say something. If everything is fine the way it is, there is no reason to say anything because you want nothing to be changed. The forums represent a fraction of the real SK community. Don't leave just because the representatives are hating.

Oh, and it IS just a video game.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 12:06

#14

Axonio

Sooooo, the forums should be filled with Yes-men?

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 13:21

#15

Skyguarder

Don't go on the forums then.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 15:39

#16

Luguiru

"Come downstairs son, supper time."

"Oh boy, mom makes the best mashed potatoes with gravy and chicken legs."

"Did you wash up first, son?"

"No mom, but I did dunk my entire body into the tub after filling it with slug mucus."

"Goob job, son. Now take a seat so your father can join us."

"I thought daddy was in hell for crucifying those orphans?"

"No son, this is hell. Daddy went to heaven for slaughtering those tiny demons."

"Oh okay mommy. Can I have supper now?"

"No son, you only deserve eternal torment and suffering."

Luguiru was never allowed to read to children in the public library ever again.
Not that he was allowed to be within twenty miles of the library to begin with after last time when he belched every time someone coughed or sneezed.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 16:11

#17

Feyi-Feyi

big meh.

Most of you guys just prove my point.
Some didn't, thanks again to those people.

Every single snarky response is another one that is not helping at all. Does it make you happy?
No the forum shouldn't be yes man, god forbid. But the forum should be filled with people who also act on their complaints.
I'm thinking of autofire's UI mod, Thrillhaus' LD lobbies, Luguiru's balancing thread.

@little juances: I don't hate it, I wouldn't be coming back. I am worried though.
negativity attracts only more negativity. (No i'm not a hippie, i'm pretty cynic myself but there's a time and place for everything.)

@Hexzyle: trying to make fun of people by way of a popular meme isn't remotely funny.
It's putting down someone at the expense of feeling good about yourself.&z

@Skyguarder: If I did then I too would be another complainer that doesn't act on it.
I am trying to understand why this community (the forum, not the game) acts like this.$
By you logic all of the people that just complain about the game should also just don't play the game. That's not how it works.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 18:28

#18

Orangeo

Oh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Well. I haven't played in a long time. Just decided to see how the community was doing and... this thread...

You see how there are all these snarkey replies? It's because your thread is contradicting. You can't just leave a little disclaimer at the bottom of your OP saying "I know this thread is hypocritical, so don't call it hypocritical" and expect people to not capitalize on the obvious weakness of main point, which in itself, is an attack on the majority of SKers. You can't cover that up by saying you "love the community" before you rail on the community.

You see how poorly thought out actions, like writing this thread, lead to criticism? Perhaps you could find some parallelism in this thread and the mistakes OOO has made. Do something dumb, get criticized. It's by no means an uncommon or strange trend, infact it's basic human nature.

Well, as you can see, I've lost faith in the community once more, and I'm not even going to bother booting up my game. I bid thee adieu~

Edit; Wait, you think memes come from 9gag?
>complains about complaining
>thinks memes come from 9gag
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/4286-kill-yourself.jpg

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 16:45

#19

Fehzor

Its hard to find vaguely educational things to discuss about the game without disagreeing with some part of it.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 17:50

#20

Gwenyvier

Game forums (and possibly all

Game forums (and possibly all forums, I do not post on many anymore) in general are like that. There will be some people who are positive, but as in real life, the loudest people are the ones that get the attention... and the loudest ones are always the complainers. Want a prime real life example? The Westover Baptist Church. The most hate-filled "Christian" group out there gets attention all the time, while actual Christian groups are helping people, or doing actual good things but get no attention because they aren't loud.

It is pretty much just human nature. If you like something you are more likely to be quietly content with it, and less likely to post. If you dislike something you are more likely to voice your opinion, and depending on your personality you may voice it quite loudly.

Just as an example of that last one. There are people that post on here, just constant complaints about the game or how OOO manages it, that do not actually play the game anymore. Some do not even have it installed on their computer anymore, yet they feel the need to voice "everybody else's" opinion that whatever was released sucks. They have no first hand knowledge of it, they haven't tested it themselves, they just want to complain loudly. Not all of the people that just complain do that of course, no where near all, but some do.

~Gwen

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 18:11

#21

Orangeo

You come off as a rational

You come off as a rational person qwen, but just because you see the louder people more easily, you shouldn't assume others do. It's unwise to project your traits onto other people. If you're the type of person who sees the flawed westburrow minority instead of the peaceful christian majority, you are infact one of the pessimistic complainers that the OP seems to love so much.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 18:23

#22

Draciusen

What of it?

It's entirely clear that this game is going through an upheaval, and complaints must be made so that it's clear what the community desires in Spiral Knights, and give the developers an idea of what to do.

Three Rings has given little indication as to whether or not these complaints are being taken into account, so naturally people complain more to be heard. That's not a problem, and just be glad that there are even any positive threads given the state of the game.

I'm sure when the smoke clears and everything's settled, the community will start to head in a new light (Awkward phrasing, deal with it).

Let it be said that I don't agree with quite a few of the complainers who only state what's wrong and don't provide either reason, or what could be done to solve their problem, and only expect people to sympathize and circle-jerk with them. Not even going to talk about the raging capslockers; they're disgusting.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 18:25

#23

Orangeo

When the smoke clears? You

When the smoke clears? You mean when time ends? (I for one, support romanticized phrasing)

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 18:34

#24

Draciusen

Ehmmm

Well, I was going for something like construction work....and all the dust/smoke clears out and a shiny mansion appears.
But yours works too ^^

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 19:22

#25

Feyi-Feyi

@Orangeo

Ad hominem argument. You dismissed everything in this thread by relating it to my and my 'mistake'.
Don't talk about losing faith if you can't even get those things right yourself.

Memes are born in the depths of 4chan and Reddit.

Now, would you like to add something of value to this thread? otherwise just don't speak.

@Gwen: good reply, I agree with you. I'm just sad to see it happen here too.

@Drac: yes, those people at the end of your first comment, those are the ones this is aimed at.
Not at the ones making a fair point, including arguments and possible solutions.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 20:01

#26

Orangeo

Draciusen, I was implying

Draciusen, I was implying that the smoke will never clear. People will find faults and remove them forever. It's a simple evolutionary process. We won't reach the shiny mansion you speak of, but in my opinion, we are already in one. A mansion that knows and fixes its own problems.

So Feyi, I'm ad hominen you say? Yet you are the one calling me things, such as ad hominen. Your original post is an attack as well. Caught again, telling people to not do something while doing it yourself. Yet you still are shocked to see people call you out for your errors. I dismissed everything you wrote, by criticizing everything you wrote? I'm sure. I just can't believe that you can see yourself that you're "complaining about complaining", as proven by the bottom section of your original post, yet you still go on doing it. That's the equivalent of saying "I know this makes no sense, but since I know it makes no sense, I'm going to do it anyway". You can't ignore a problem just because you recognize it and put it between asterisks. Writing a post, that clearly states why it is hypocritical, and then sticking with it anyway is certainly a bad idea, and you shouldn't even be slightly surprised to see ridicule within your thread, or within the forums for that matter.

When I said that your single post caused me to lose faith in the community, that was obvious sarcasm. That's not a difficult thing to realize when you see that I actually posted twice. I'm still here, aren't I?

Point being, people go through some sort logical reasoning for complaining. Sure, it is more beneficial to suggest solutions simultaneously, but if exposing a problem is all someone can do, I'll give them a pat for doing what they can if the flaw they have found is at least reasonable. The "flaw" you have found is not reasonable, because you are unable to attack the complaint/fix method without using it yourself. You have proved that you need it, you have said that you need it, and yet you still argue against it.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 19:59

#27

Feyi-Feyi

@ orangeo

You can not "call" someone ad hominem.. and you missed the point of why I said it too.
/sigh

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 20:14

#28

Orangeo

You can most certainly call

You can most certainly call someone ad hominen. Look at you, typing things like "/sigh". You are clearly trying harder to play the anger game than I am.

How on earth did I not see the point? You come off as the type of person that will simply assume someone didn't read what they wrote if they disagree.

The main point of your original post was that people complain to frequently and praise too little.
Like Gwen, you believe that the loudest people get the most attention.
In order to combat this "problem", you make a loud complaint.
This proves that you believe that, for you to get things done, you have to make a loud complaint, and even though it is the only way you can get things done, you still think people shouldn't do things that way.
To boot, you put in asterisks that you understand that your thread proves itself worthless, yet you go with it anyway.
You see your points flaw, you tell people you see your points flaw, and yet you support it.
You state that people only complain to get sympathy, yet when you do not get my sympathy, you assume I do not get your point.

"This is the method that works; don't use it"

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 20:23

#29

Feyi-Feyi

...

I'm done.
Here's what you could do to see why: count the amount of times you said the word 'you'.
Then check if this thread was about me or not.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 20:43

#30

Jiker

Interesting.

I'm sure no one meant to mean "you" as in "Feyi-Feyi," but as a vernacular term for "the reader of the post" or "individuals of the community," which this thread is about.

Mon, 06/03/2013 - 23:37

#31

Hexzyle

@Feyi-Feyi

@Hexzyle: trying to make fun of people by way of a popular meme isn't remotely funny.
It's putting down someone at the expense of feeling good about yourself.&z

Actually, it wasn't a put down, it was a joke directed at a stereotype. There's nothing wrong with making jokes about stereotypes, as long as the stereotype is accurate, and the person who falls into the stereotype is not bound by that stereotype against their will, or enjoyed being a part of that stereotype, for example, if they were a specific race, religion, or of a certain mental composition.

Unless you were actually genuinely offended: then please do say so. Otherwise it just seems like you're being anal.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 01:32

#32

Feyi-Feyi

@ hexzyle

The day I'm offended by someone on the internet would be a sad day.
Also: was your first comment aimed at me?

Anyway It doesn't matter, the first comment seems to be the only one I'll take as advice, I'm out of here.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 04:13

#33

Orangeo

Oh, sorry Jiker, but when I

Oh, sorry Jiker, but when I said "you" I absolutely meant Feyi. I understand Feyi wasn't trying to talk about themselves, but as Feyi describes these "complainers", they start to look exactly like one. Feyi think other people should complain less, but Feyi can do nothing other than complain. Feyi says complainers put up no logical argument, and then whine when they don't get sympathy, and then Feyi does just that.

You didn't write it to be about you, yet you, Feyi, fit the bill perfectly. It's like unconsciously putting up wanted ad for yourself, then questioning why you are being pursued by policemen.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 04:31

#34

Kimahsonite

I think I've seen this type

I think I've seen this type of thread in every single game forum I've been to...

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 06:47

#35

Feyi-Feyi

@Orangeo

Wow, you're a douche. Yes that's an ad hominem attack.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 07:19

#36

Grugwasasailor

this community ain't illin, this community be bumbaclot

most deaf is illin, so is nasir. This community however, is comparable to BrokeNCYDE.

Don't cry out loud, just keep it inside.
Learn how to hide... your feelings.

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 08:45

#37

Gwenyvier

Orangeo seems to have assumed

Orangeo seems to have assumed that seeing the people that make the most noise is a bad thing, allow me to elaborate a bit.

The loudest group getting the most attention is not always a bad thing. I can point out several times in US history alone where it has happened to good effect. Equal rights for black people, women's right to vote, and the most recent (and ongoing) one; gay marriage and trans rights. There are others, but those are the first to come to mind. On the other side of the coin you have hate groups that use the same tactic of making noise and end up making an entire group look bad when it is just a small minority. PETA (has very close ties to the Animal Liberation Front, a group classified as a domestic terrorist organization by the FBI), WBC, Muslim extremists, etc. Only those that don't pay attention actually believe that the small minority those groups represent is indicative of everybody of that group. I do see what those groups do, but I do not believe by a long shot that it is how everybody in those respective groups think or act.

Change is not brought around silently, one has to make noise to get your group attention. It is just that the group making the noise is not always worth paying attention to (PETA, WBC, etc).

And with that I will let this thread get back on topic.

~Gwen

Tue, 06/04/2013 - 23:42

#38

Blue-Flood

To quote one of my best

To quote one of my best friends who helps derail me from threads like this:
"wait, are you seriously argueing with someone on the internet? LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLL"

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 00:32

#39

Orangeo

Sorry if it looks ad hominen

Sorry if it looks ad hominen Feyi, but I'm not the one calling your thread flawed. You are. You said so in your little asterisks. YOU said that understand how it's "ironic to be complaining about complaining", and EVEN THOUGH you know it's contradicting, and even though you know you told everyone it was, you still back it up. You've even went off on be and claimed I "didn't get the point" purely because I wasn't on your side, and you did it right after saying "complainers whine when they don't get sympathy". You're doing precisely what you said a complainer would. Not what I said a complainer would, what YOU said a complainer would. I'M not calling you a complainer, I'm just saying that you're doing what YOU said one would do.

That's why I called your tread a "poorly thought out action". It's not just a burn. Saying "I dislike people who do this", then doing it, than saying "those people act like this", then acting that way, is poorly thought out action, and it recives criticism, much in the way that OOO gets criticism when it does things that make little to no sense (not to say it always does or anything).

You can't call something completly ad hominen just because it pisses you off. If anything is ad hominen, it's your posts. Most of your replies are just "you're a this" or "you're a that" followed by "and that's why I'm too dignified to respond" or something simmilar as opposed to logical rebuttle. It's the "You are too far beneath me to respond to" tactic. The purest form of ad hominen, cloaked in logic evasion.
---

I see what you mean Gwen. I kinda thought you all meant "loud" as in "abnoxious", since you used westburrow as your prime example. Poor assumption on my part, but a fair bit of what I said to you still stands; I could easialy put womens rights activists under the OPs definition of a "complainer" if I wanted. One of the reasons I disliked the topic. I'm not saying I have a problem with being loud, I'm endorsing it in a way. Feyi on the other hand dosen't seem to want anyone who has a problem with something to be loud.

Blueflood, prehaps you should star away from the fourms like you advised if you can't take it.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/278/344/81c.gif

(and sorry if this is a necro, I've been busy on airplanes for a while)

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 02:29

#40

Blue-Flood

You're right, SK conversation

You're right, SK conversation is so deep and intense i just cant follow it. SO SERIOUS!!!!
Now let's argue the sin of AT and the mindlessness of asi Hammer!
It's too much!
More pictures please!

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:05

#41

Feyi-Feyi

@ Orangeo

The irony, it burns.
My previous statement still stands.
Count the amount of you's in your post.
Then check what this thread is about: me or an entirely different subject.

I do not want anyone who has a problem to be silent.
What I would like however is for someone to not just complain, but also to take the step of trying to propose a solution.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:15

#42

Orangeo

The amount of yous? You act

The amount of yous? You act like the people you trash in the original post, and that's why your original post makes no sense. 'Your thread' is foolish, because of 'you'. That's what the 'you' is for, I'm using it as an arguing point against the thread. Let's say a gay person makes a homophobic thread. You're saying that I shouldn't tell them that their thread makes no sense because their gay, because the thread 'isn't about them'.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:19

#43

Blue-Flood

So i'm gona jump in the

So i'm gona jump in the middle again and ask:

when was the last time you argued with someone over the computer and felt good about it?

too silly

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:29

#44

Feyi-Feyi

@orangeo

Before you start to think I feel to dignified to respond again:

I am not like the people I 'trash' in the OP. I have an issue with the way some forumers only seem to be here to complain.
Hence I make a thread to discuss it. I acted on it, trying to find out how it could be better.
If you think that the 'you' part of your replies can act as an argument against the thread
you're still doing this:

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument.[2] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely an irrelevance.[6]

Credit goes to wikipedia for that one.
There is still a chance to discuss the OP if you'd like.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:31

#45

Feyi-Feyi

@blueflood

I don't feel good about this, in fact I think it's terribly representing of the state of this forum and would rather not be a part of it.
I did not start this thread to argue with anyone, alas: the internet happened.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 03:40

#46

Xxpapaya

The papaya frowns

Um...welcome to the forums? :3 There will always be "complaint threads" on forums...its kinda like...kinda like...I can't think of anything XD

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 06:04

#47

Iamnoone

...kind of like...

walking through a farm field and expecting not to walk in poop.

Thu, 06/06/2013 - 19:48

#48

Spold

People constantly lament about the development of the game because they want entertainment. They want the developers to show that they'll actually develop ways for the players to relish themselves.

The way you're complaining isn't going to actually be beneficial, and it's not going to change the way the people repine.

I'm with Orangeo on this one.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 08:03

#49

Orangeo

I do disagree with your OP,

I do disagree with your OP, because nobody can avoid complaining, and because good things come from complaining, even if the complaint does nothing more than point out the problem. I also decided to complain to make an example, because the person who wrote it seems to also complain loudly to voice their opinion, proving its effectiveness. If that's how you see ad hominen, fine, but look back at the analogy I wrote. If a gay man makes a homophobic argument, should I not bring up their sexuality? Or would the ad hominen aspect of that make it a wrong course of action? If you're in some debate club where you're assigned points to argue, then you obviously can't call people out personally because they might be arguing in favor of something they might believe in. This is the real world though. If those that believe we should complain less decide to complain more, I'm going to question their thought process, even if I do run the risk of appearing to be ad hominen.

Fri, 06/07/2013 - 03:45

#50

Not-Impressed

Blankity blank..

I like seeing them.. Atleast the well thought out/written ones.. My favourites are the ones that think USING ALL CAPS MAKES THE COMPLAINT/RANT STRONGER.

Would a rant about Blast Network instead of Lockdown make you feel better?

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This community is ill.