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Want to become a Gunslinger-Need Advice

17 replies [Last post]
Sat, 06/08/2013 - 04:20
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos

When I first joined SK,I became interested in alchemer line guns.

Can any one give advice on how to utilize guns,especially alchemer line guns,effectively and become a good gunslinger?

LOADOUT

I currently have voltech alchemer,shadowtech alchemer and a voltech alchemer mkii recipe.

All help is appreciated.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 04:40
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
great

Your equipment choice is great. Consider getting Chaos armor, for its big offensive bonuses (at the cost of bad defense). Consider also Swiftstrike Buckler. You could also try Nameless or Perfect Mask of Seerus (if you have Operation Crimson Hammer). Well, read the Gunslinger Guide on the wiki for more equipment advice.

Alchemers are extremely powerful guns, but only if you use the ricochets well. On the regular attacks, ricochets always go counterclockwise from the line of attack. For example, if you fire to the north, then the ricochets bounce west; if you fire to the west, then the ricochets bounce south. Therefore, you want to turn autotarget off, and aim your alchemer shots so that they hit their target on its clockwise side, so that the ricochets go into the target. For example, if the monster is south of you, then hit it on its west side; the ricochets will bounce east and go into the monster. On charge attacks, the ricochets come off in clockwise and counterclockwise directions. I'll let you figure out what to do.

There is also an "alchemer switching" trick, that lets you speed up your rate of regular attacks. Search Google for "spiral knights forum alchemer switch", and search YouTube for videos too.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 05:08
#2
Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

If you aren't already, use Cyclops Cap. It's a lot of offensive power for its cost.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 05:42
#3
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Ricochet

I still have not worked out how the ricochet works.Can you tell about it in detail please.
Thank you.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 16:39
#4
Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
Ricochet

Here ya go:

http://i.imgur.com/LYbzKL8.png

The orange is the possible range that the shot can ricochet, and it applies for any alchemer projectile (so when it ricochets, you can imagine that as another bullet going in a new direction with the same rules).

It's probably not exactly a full quarter-circle, but it's random and close enough that it can pass for the actual range.

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 21:28
#5
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
So....

So you are saying that if I hit t target at,say,15degrees to its surface,the ricochet can hit the target again?

Sat, 06/08/2013 - 23:45
#6
Geosmin's picture
Geosmin
I don't have an estimate for

I don't have an estimate for how many degrees the angle is, but yes, you can have the ricochet hit the target again and/or other targets. In case the terms Bopp used are not the most intuitive for you in particular, the projectiles mysteriously always make turn at an apparently random angle within a certain range of possible angle, all of them very sharp left turns. Hit the target on the side to your right, and the projectile will have a much better chance of colliding with the target again since it wants to bounce into it rather than away from it. It's weird. The first habit to make might be aiming for the monsters toward the side of a group to your right and the far side from you.

Other "newbie" things to know are that Alchemers start out weak at 2-star, become mediocre at 3-star, great at 4-star and awesome at 5-star. So, when you notice that they seem weak while you're working through Tier 2, keep in mind that they grow in performance with upgrades much faster than lots of other weapons do. In case you haven't noticed yet, all gun projectiles explode when interacting with anything, including Alchemer ones ricocheting, dealing damage in a (very small) area of effect, and the consequences influence how they're best used.

If you have two or more monsters right next to each other, either touching or at least close enough that a bullet won't get through between them, you can hit there and get double damage for the initial hit AND any ricochets that fail to escape that sweet spot. Charged attacks really shine when monsters cluster up, and you can burn right through Lumbers' piles of hit points. Monsters near any bullet-stopping object are also similar great opportunities for bonus damage, so I like to use shield-bump and kiting to get them close to walls and stuff if I don't have a big mess of them to take advantage of the splashes and Shock inflictions and bounces and more splashes and shock ticks and... Yeah.

One of the things I like about Alchemers is how both the charged and uncharged attacks are very useful, so there's that too. They're pretty flexible weapons, useful for both a defensive and an offensive approach, so they combine nicely with a lot of other weapons, including other Alchemers due to switching being able to increase output if you can switch and fire faster than the combo timer allows you to fire one gun. For the Elemental gun I'm torn between the Shock path to emphasise the chaotic nature and the status-free path to emphasise focused damage, and those are probably the most popular choices for an Elemental Alchemer.

For gunning in general, I like my Alchemer for pairing up with a Blaster, Catalyser, Autogun or Needler, though to be fair the Cat seems to be just because I like them a lot. Of particular note is that when monsters are too far away for shield-bumping and not cooperating with your kiting efforts, Blaster is great for nudging them into nice locations for bonus damage, and as a bonus Blaster's nudges come with nice damage of their own. Also, (non-Needle) Autogun encourages the user to kick lone monsters against walls with shield-bumps, so they don't get pushed too far by the charge volley and fail to catch enough bullets to die. Since this is also great for Alchemers, the two play well together and have some overlapping skills and muscle memory.

As for non-weapon gear, Chaos is the standard answer for any one who can handle the extra vulnerability to status effects, because its damage and charge time bonuses are wicked. This is not just for gunners but just about any one, but especially peops using multiple classes of weapons since its bonuses are not limited to guns, swords or bombs. For gunners in particular, there are also some more defensively-oriented options for Elemental and Pierce with decent ASI, and ASI is probably the most defensive weapon bonus anyway. For Shadow defense, Shadowsun is generally recommended over Deadshot since the added value of damage vs. everything over damage vs. Undead is considered worth more than the minimum increment of ASI, and I can agree with that opinion. I'd say, use Chaos if you're confident you can handle extra frailty when you get hit with some of the most dangerous hits, either one piece or both. Otherwise, Justifier, Nameless and Shadowsun are the best gunner options for their damage types, so mix or match to taste. IMO, Nameless and Justifier look like they're meant to be mixed- look at the pictures of them on the wiki and you'll see what I mean.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 02:12
#7
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Thank You

@Geosmin
Thank you very much for giving this much detail.It is better thank the gunslinger's guide.
I noticed that there is no ricochet of my voltech alchemer's shot while my friend,s voltech alchemer mkii's shot ricochet.
Why?

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 03:38
#8
Vandheerlorde's picture
Vandheerlorde
Ricochets begin from 3 stars.

Ricochets begin from 3 stars. AKA Mk2

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 12:04
#9
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Thank you all!

Thank you all!

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 21:03
#10
Geosmin's picture
Geosmin
You're welcome, I'm glad to

You're welcome, I'm glad to be of help.

Whoops, my bad! I forgot about the ricochets starting at 3-star. I guess it's been a long time. I just reviewed the Gunslinger guide and I think it's been updated a lot since I was last there. It looks like good solid advice, but with one odd error: the Catalyser's knock is not in a random direction, it's always away from each glob attached to a monster. Equal numbers on opposite sides cancel out, lopsided distributions shove monsters away from the bulk of the orbiting charges. The blast's flinch power is also pretty heavy, so it's often useful to use single gobs and detonate immediately to keep a monster locked down and knocked to the East. (The gobs always orbit counter-clockwise and always start on the North side, so if you alternate single charged and single uncharged shots as fast as possible, under most circumstances you'll consistently push your target Eastward. I say most not just due to possibility of missing or having to pause attacking for something else, but also because the projectiles are very slow and thus Doppler shifts can get really dramatic. Speaking of that, you can run about as fast as the bullets, so piling up a "shockwave" of them is sometimes handy for squooshing a smaller monster before healers can do anything about it, for those occasional times when you need to be careful about explosives.)

I could spend an awful lot of time trying to articulate what I've found the different types of guns to be strong and weak for, but I was trying to stay focused on closely Alchemer-related observations. To that end, I think I went a bit overboard and neglected to mention a couple of things; ultimately, I recommend giving every weapon type a try if its basic mechanics sound fun to you, because Alchemers are a fine core for one's arsenal since their flexibility lets them work well with just about any other weapons. Also, more generally, specialists in one class of weapon might be looking for a weapon for the particular purpose of covering the weaknesses of their primary types, so...

As for pragmatic functionality, the Blaster line is one of my top recommendations for rounding out a gunner's capabilities in order to avoid getting stuck on tough missions, because its defensive utility and flexibility are top-tier; it's not as offensively powerful as Alchemers are, but it's even easier and safer to use, while still being similarly versatile. It's also nice that all of the recipes we need are given as mission rewards now. The other gun recommendation for insurance against getting stuck is the Normal Pulsegun, though IMO it's more for sword and/or bomb specialists since Pulsegun focuses on a long range band that gunners are already strong in while Blaster is better up close where gunners probably need the most help and others need the least. That doesn't mean it's not worth considering, though, so I'm mentioning it anyway.

Using a different class to soften a specialist's brittleness works for gunners too, of course. If you're into using non-gun weapons to round out your capabilities, my other top recommendation is one of two types of sword: a Pierce sword and/or a Brandish of some sort. Priority between those two depends on which monsters give you the most trouble; just choose by damage type, they're all easy to learn to use. In my experience the Snarble Barb likes single swings between shield cancels, with charge attack and/or full combo when a juicy opportunity presents. Flourish differs only in the charge attack, which is much more offensive (kinda like a Needler, I guess) and so a bit more for sword specialists. Brandish is even more friendly, any attack pattern gives great DPS with nice knock and flinch, but one of its specialties is really, really short recovery after the charge attack before you can either shield-cancel or start attacking again. As such, I'm finding myself completing the combo after a charge attack when a monster's too heavy to be blasted away by it or I've got the poor thing against a backstop.

I'm not sure how good bombs are for this gap-filling purpose, because I already use 3 sword types, but if I wanted a bomb for that I'd go for a Blast Bomb since it's pretty straitforward in its usage and one of its biggest strengths seems to be creating a bubble of area denial. Take that with a grain of salt, though, because I'm not much of a bomber at all.

Sun, 06/09/2013 - 23:44
#11
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Shield

I also need to find a nice shield to go with the rest?And is there any good gun in the autogun line?

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 11:59
#12
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Also... Do I need a UV

Also...
Do I need a UV

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 12:09
#13
Bopp's picture
Bopp
nobody needs a UV

UVs are nice to have, but nobody needs any UVs. If you go with Chaos armor, then your desire for UVs goes down, as it gives you CTR+6 and damage+4 on all guns. Just spam those alchemer charges. Consider Swiftstrike Buckler to boost your ASI. (It has terrible defense, but defense is not crucial for gunners.) Consider trinkets to fill out your damage and ASI.

Yes, there is a good gun in the Autogun line. Blitz Needle is one of the most popular guns in the game, due to its extremely powerful charge attack, which kills Vanaduke (and many other monsters) quickly. Volcanic Pepperbox is highly praised by those who have used it. Plague Needle trades a lot of damage for a little poison, and is less popular.

Try searching the forums (through Google) for more opinions. Your questions about gunning are reasonable, but they have been asked many times.

Mon, 06/10/2013 - 12:12
#14
Voza-Il's picture
Voza-Il
For shields, I recommend

For shields, I recommend swiftstrike buckler, if you want to chain bullets. But if you jeed practice first, I would go with pretty much any shield. If you want a cool looking yet pathetically overused shield, go Grey Owlite. If u want a ugly hipster shield, go for Royal Jelly Shield. Pretty much any shield will work for you as a gunner. Just don't go for ancient plate, its ugly and kinda sucks.

Also, if you are interestd in the UV market, i recommend ASI UVs on status alchemers, and CTR on pure dmg. Just helps with the damage distribution.

And autogun line really only is good for vanaduke, once you get there. The blitz needle does about 2k-4.5k dmg depending on ur dmg bonuses on him per charge. But for general use, keep it in ur arsenal.

Lets see...oh, antigua lines. Decent damage, solid guns. Cool charge, looks cool, and is nice for stunlocking in LD.

Magnus lines are cool sounding and fun to use, decent usefulness.

Valiance is surprisingly useful in lockdown, but in general kinda sucks.

Catalyzer sucks, get that one last.

Pulsar lines are easy to use, polaris if u want to be annoying but effective.

Dats about it! I see another LD gunner in the future...great

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 11:46
#15
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
@Bopp

So basically I should buy swiftstrike buckler.Bot it is only 3*

Tue, 06/11/2013 - 12:05
#16
Bopp's picture
Bopp
right

Right, Swiftstrike Buckler is only 3-star, and it can't be upgraded. Its defense is terrible; it breaks very rapidly in Stratum 6. But you're a gunner, so you dodge everything from afar anyway. Give it a try. If you don't like it, then at least you haven't wasted many crowns on it.

Wed, 06/12/2013 - 23:24
#17
Hogmos's picture
Hogmos
Thank You

Thank you to all those gave me the advice.

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