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Soloing a Shadow Lair and got logged off by the server out of nowhere? Good luck getting your key back...

33 replies [Last post]
Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:15
Ark-The-Monsta's picture
Ark-The-Monsta

Whilst recording a solo RRT run, this happens to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPC3K00_HP4

That is raw footage from the video I recorded, I just took the part where this happened and rendered it. (No sound because Fraps derped)

Why do I think it's a bug? Because it has happened to me 3 times now, once in that Shadow Lair, once during a Lockdown match half an hour later, and then again today while browsing the AH in my guild hall. This has happened to a few of my friends as well, so I just don't see how it could be my connection, let alone anything on my end.

To top off this already dissapointing situation, the response I got from support was this, even after clearly explaining that I was in the shadow lair by myself:

"I'm afraid that we cannot provide items that players don't feel they got full use of due to disconnections; is your team still in the Shadow Lair? If so, I may be able to help you to rejoin them."

Let me just clear a few things up: This was not a disconnection, this was the game server somehow indicating my connection as 4 bars instead of my normal 3, rendering my character completely paralyzed and unable to to anything, and then being kicked to the title screen in a split second with no message as to why it happened. I mean seriously if I was lagging that horribly you'd THINK I'd have trouble logging back on, right? But look at how fast I got back online only to find myself at the character select screen and afterwards in the ready room.

Stuff similar to this has happened to me before, and I've let it slide because it may have been partially an issue on my end. But when I have a solid connection and get booted from the game like that only to be denied a refund (even a PARTIAL refund) in any way, shape or form despite providing a substantial amount of details as well as video proof of the incident is where I draw the line. A quote on quote "disconnection" like this is highly unlikely a problem that originated from me. I tried to be as professional about it as possible, but I feel that the response I got was un-professional and quite unfair in general. If I can't get full use of an item because of a blatantly obvious problem not originating on my end, then who's fault is it really? Think about it for a second. As for me, it's going to be a long time before I do another shadow lair, let alone purchase any CE (No I'm not saying "omg gimme free stuff or i quit cus ur game is broken!!!1!1!11") But in all honesty if I can't make use of the game's content that I paid money for only to be kicked off for nothing resuliting in a loss with no recourse whatsoever then I'm not going to spend any money, plain and simple.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:38
#1
Everlas's picture
Everlas
what kelso would sAy

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 21:39
#2
Coolnew's picture
Coolnew
Tons of hugs.

I would bet on which GM gave you that response. That would mean free money for me LOL. This is another issue I wanted to discuss about some threads ago, but that thread was about a different topic (scamming). So, now that I have the possibility of doing this, I'm gonna take the advantage.

1) You must get the key back. If it's not possible for some unbelievable policy (like the privacy one about scammers LMAO), at least some GM should provide you an invitation to that shadow lair, as if you got disconnected from a team party;

2) I guess it's the case to push some game master to read better issues we try to explain in our tickets. How is it possible that that game master asked you about your team's situation after that you clarified you were solo? Did he/her even read your support request or he/she just focused on one or two keywords and dropped you a templated response? If it was up to me, I would have rewritten another ticket with something like "I want another GM to help me" as first line, followed by the description of the issue.

3) It's clearly NOT lag. But even if it was lag, it would mean reclienting is broken (by the way, free info: reclienting is broken). So, in my opinion, you deserve some help also in this case.

I am very curious to see if even this time I will get some answer relating to fairness, policies or other crazy stuff by Game Masters.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 22:15
#3
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope

lately the game have some lag, and sometimes i get that annoying lag where you have 4 bars and start walk slowly then the game push you and then your bars goes back to the normal bar connection you have. then those lags where you get freezes or well you see monsters and player stop doing any kind of movement or the enemies/players that are already walking around they go trought walls and walk to the chasm of the game.

But of course... there always people that says its our connection and not the server... So who know really :/ but i didnt have this kind of lag before.

Sun, 06/23/2013 - 23:05
#4
Wodanct's picture
Wodanct

Welcome to Spiral Knights. Hope you enjoy getting screwed over by the server out of no where and then getting a poor excuse as support from its team.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 07:21
#5
Paweu's picture
Paweu
Your energy counters don't

Your energy counters don't check out and I don't see you clicking on revive button anywhere, how do you explain that? This whole business is fishy since you didn't even post your ticket here and just the support reply.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 07:32
#6
Worknplay's picture
Worknplay
You can see the revive button

You can see the revive button click animation occuring; also pointing the fact that fraps is not leaving the mouse cursor on this video; this is just gonna be hard to see one click without a cursor. Fail.

Basically what Coolnew said. I would also add after countless complaints on unbind trick issues the answer from GMs/management is still the same:
You're responsible for your trade/connection which is really just a "we don't assume the flaws in our game". Administration in this game is a total disaster; in-game issues are barely read while forums are being constantly censored and read through clearly. Weird priorities. Sorry for your 1.6k CE loss.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 08:03
#7
Glacies's picture
Glacies
--

Honestly, I always ever hear that the support team is either unresponsive and terrible or amazing and wonderful. I've always experienced the latter with the support team.

Part of the reason not to issue to refund is that you could easily say you "Disconnected" and get infinite Shadow Lair Keys. I know someone who was able to get their Shadow Lair Key back and they even told him that "It's very rare that we ever give back Shadow Lair Keys" but the cause was the major-outage we experienced a long time ago. I believe this is enforcing a rule of "No refunds" for specific reasons.

"Let me just clear a few things up: This was not a disconnection, this was the game server somehow indicating my connection as 4 bars instead of my normal 3, rendering my character completely paralyzed and unable to to anything, and then being kicked to the title screen in a split second with no message as to why it happened."

I get this all the time and it's not caused by Spiral Knights, it's caused by my own local connection from Comcast where my Download and Upload Speed to the point where the game believes you've disconnected. Maybe it was different for you but whenever I experience the same thing as you, it's just Comcast disconnecting for a few seconds and the server is just trying to sync up with you.

Worknplay, the only thing I see odd is the fact that despite the fact that Khomie revived, the CE count would have ended with 29, not 30. And the fact that hitting revived didn't seem to affect mist at all as the counter would have been 0 and not 1.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 08:45
#8
Worknplay's picture
Worknplay
Sounds rather hard to "fake"

Sounds rather hard to "fake" such thing though. Especially if it's just going to be in order to get a Shadow key, which is honestly worthless if you're a proper endgame player. I get disconnected this way from time to time too; out of the blue really, and it's not due to my own connection. The key idea though is still that clearly the support is powerless in that kind of event, video provided or not apparently.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 10:38
#9
Mlkl's picture
Mlkl
Huh.

Funny, never had 3 bars jump to 4 bars.
I know the problem with the "4 bars are lying"; The game does that when there's pretty much massive amounts of lag. Usually for me, when it does that, that's my cue to reset the router. Again.
It happens to me a lot, but never from 3 bars. Usually it's at 1 bar, then jumps to 4. Sometimes 2, but never 3. You weren't able to spot the jump because it was 3 bars, not 2, or 3..
Either way, a tip; if the wifi bar on the top right jumps from a low bar to full 4 really fast, that's the game saying "I can't even track this stuff". It should, at least, from my experience, go gradually up to 4 bars over like, 5 seconds per bar.
As for connection issues...
Get that all the time; Steam tends to derp up just because it doesn't have a constant connection. It keeps disconnecting whenever I get 4 or 5 seconds of no internet to it. Got nothing to tell you about the d/c; sorry to hear about you losing a key. Remember though - It's hard to read intentions over the internet, and ridiculously easy to fake 'em.

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 11:50
#10
Coolnew's picture
Coolnew
Tons of hugs.

I'm still curious to read some GM's reply here. I guess it will be like:

We can't give the key back in order to protect its privacy. It's a very strict policy of ours and the reason is plain and simple: if you were a Shadow Key, you wouldn't like if all the people knew how many times you opened a shadow lair gate. This is a private and sensible Shadow Key's information. Anyway we will investigate more on your vid., also because we like your youtube channel and your lag adventure episodes (btw, keep doing those!!).

That would be fun :°D

Mon, 06/24/2013 - 19:03
#11
Validous's picture
Validous
@Glacies

Upon logging in again, it clearly shows the mist counter at 0 and the CE having a subtraction of 39 energy. The energy counter must have been suffering the same problem as the rest of the client.

Also, during this weekend I had severe lag, but I believe it was other people in the community clogging the neighborhood lines because other games had the same problem.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 00:55
#12
Kimahsonite's picture
Kimahsonite
Just quit the game like I

Just quit the game like I did.The next big update, 'battle sprites', don't even seem game-changing (oh wait they make the game easier). They haven't done jack about the poor gear balance in the game even after the gear balance survey we took a few months ago (poor Mad Bomber). And they haven't done anything about reviving the arcade and making it a part of the core gameplay again.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 07:47
#13
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Kimahsonite

Why are you still here then? Every moment you spend fretting over the game when you don't have to, you're building your stress levels over something you don't even take part in anymore. Unless you're British and get serotonin off of that or something.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 08:38
#14
Senorclean
@hexzyle

game does suck, look at this, no GM reply for 2 days already, so much for GM "look" at people's post on the forums. Also some people don't reply back cause it's true, so that's a possible reason why GMs didn't even replied to this, cause all they care about is your money and they know it's their fault anyways. Gameplay sucks too, just promos like every 1 sec, turning into tf2 with how they always add new hats that don't do anything and barely any weapons which do change gameplay.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 09:10
#15
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
@senor

you don't like the game or you haven't been around for long.
GMs rarely answer to forum posts, that has (nearly) always happened (the nearly is the game launch).
GMs are good working people that help if they can, they didn't answer "no we can't help you, and it's all your fault", they actually tried to help but they couldn't.
gamepaly sucks because of promos? that was last year. promo spam everywhere. now compounds, minis and battle sprites. and only 1-2 promos this year so far, if I haven't missed some.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 10:18
#16
Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle
@Senorclean

no GM reply for 2 days already, so much for GM "look" at people's post on the forums.

Ahahahahaha! Oh look, another forumer who's got a soiled diaper and wants the GMs to change it publicly. How about no. You change your own diapers, big boy. If you want to discuss an issue with the GMs, do it via the support portal or by email. It's not the GMs responsibilty to come to you if you have a problem, you go to them. Expecting a public response from the GM on every single thread is like expecting a pat on the back from your mommy when you're 20 years old because you have zero self-esteem and need encouragement to confront problems in life.

Why are you even here if you don't like the game? And so much for your argument: comparing this game to TF2 is a compliment. TF2 has done so many things well, and in general is an excellent game. Probably one of the best F2P games of all time. Just because you don't like "hats" is no reason to get your knickers in a knot.

Obvious troll baby is obvious.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 10:22
#17
Shamanalah's picture
Shamanalah
my 2 cents

The thing most people don't know:

They have different pc on their network connection that can affect you. My dad used to backup at 3 AM each day with a specific program on a HDD on router (NAS) and with his program he would use lal the bandwidth so I would get 5 to 10 seconds DELAY ON LEAGUE OF LEGENDS!!! *attack someone* *click to fall back* *turret dive lvl 1* *squish*

It's your connection obviously... the server could not get any response from you. It supposed you logged off on your own or pc shut down or whatever. Reset your game save. RRT is long gone, your reconnect.

Probably your connection going nuts for whatever reason

Edit: and if you can get SL key that way then I can certainly open a lockbox and have "disconnection problem" and ask gm for another key or whatever the thing looted if it's an arcane halo...

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 14:18
#18
Not-Impressed's picture
Not-Impressed
I don't get it..

Why do people always try to give the Game Masters a bad name when something can't be done about their problem?.. Do you know how easily exploitable that could be if they refunded SL keys?

I don't know about you guys but the 2 times I've needed help from a GM, both were awesome. Clotho killed the rebellious silkwing preventing us from moving on and Atlanta took us all the way back to Lord Vanaduke when we broke him... Your situation.. Unfortunate; yes, exploitable; yes.

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 16:03
#19
Yorha's picture
Yorha
@Paweu He has clicked the

@Paweu He has clicked the energy rev button, watch it again until you see

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 16:10
#20
Senorclean
@thunder

compounds are useless trash, too easy. i've stopped doing them after 1 run cause there too easy, its quality over quantity, so i can have like thousands of dust bunnies coming me me ,but they pretty much die in 1 hit, while if you have 3 vanas coming at me ,its probably harder than 1,000 dusty bunnies coming at me. as for battle sprites, i was excited for dash&bash and those swarms, but there all stupid like most of the content in-game and GMs don't even try to fix it as they intended it, for instance, LD, they didn't just made guardian and recon just so your not stuck with just using striker. Here's my intake on how they wanted LD to be.

2 recons, 2 strikers, 2 guardians
2 teams of 3, 1 of each class in each group

1) striker goes WITH guardian AND recon

2) striker and guardian draws your opponents attention

3) now the recon slips by and caps the their points while the striker and guardian stalls the opponent

4) now the opponents would likely react to either killing the striker or guardian then go to the point, or just go to the point and deal with them later

A: if he goes to the control point, he's likely to be weaken and the recon can probably take care of the opponent without the striker's and guardian's help

B: if he tries to kill the striker and guardian, the recon would of capped the point by now, so he'll run to where the striker and guardian is and now the opponent is surrounded and likely to be dead fast

5) striker and guardian then take the front lines (enemy re spawn) while the recon caps middle and the points near your base
and once the recons caps those points, they'll STAY there just in case of ninja caps by the other team

so here's what your pretty much doing

1) each class has just as an important role as the others
2) each class relies on each other for the plan to work
example: recon relies on striker and guardian to draw the opponents attention so he can sneak by, striker relies on guardian to keep himself alive and protected, guardian relies on striker to keep himself alive and protected, striker and guardian are in the front lines, so they rely on the recon to get the people who pass them when there in the front lines
3) actually uses team and needs great amount of communication and cooperating skills to pull it off

ill admit there's still some flaws with it, but its better than just straight up 6 striker charging at your base seeing who gets the most damage which doesn't require MUCH OR ANY communication or teamwork to pull it off

Tue, 06/25/2013 - 21:52
#21
Wodanct's picture
Wodanct

Honestly its just a giant joke. You have video proof of you getting booted by the game during your shadow lair and still can't get your key back. Unlike anyone that can just "fake" it there is actual proof here. Though there are those people that are quick to defend the game no matter what problems there is.

The communication between you and the server got screwed up somewhere. The game couldn't update your hud correctly. The game kicked you off because it thought you weren't there anymore. The game properly updated when you logged back in since it got an update from your side. There is no clear answer whether the problem is on your end or the servers end or the 1000 locations inbetween but people still think they know what they are talking about. Either way I really don't see why you can't get your key back with video proof and why people think they know what they are talking about with trying to give reasons why you shouldn't or trying to disprove your video.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 07:33
#22
Reto-Da-Liz's picture
Reto-Da-Liz

Aaaaaand Wodanct nailed it.

@Khomie: Best of luck in getting that key back.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 08:41
#23
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
let's see what we've got here...

Senorclean:
tell me: are compounds difficult comapred to any other level in this game? to me they are. try them with other wepons than the ones effective.
I'd like to remind you that GMs don't fix anthing, developers do. then, you give a nice portrait of how LD should work without explaining how to fix it. it's not just right.
also, I think that the community of LD plays a part in choosing striker over the other classes. other than surpassing the great downfall of the striker with the trinkets. they choose to go and make heroes (mostly by doing damage) over capping and going with a team. that is more a problem than unbalance of classes, becuase there is no simple fix.
Wodanct: other than the fact that I personally think that things like soloing a shadow liar should be impossible, GMs could have helped him if the instance in which he was playing was still on, ie if he had some teammates. otherwise I can record something like that, pass on it, then tell a month later tell I got stuck and get back in.
btw, I agree that he should have a refound, being a key or at least gremlonium.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 09:00
#24
Mtax's picture
Mtax

@Wodanct, dumb, Admins (should) have get a log of everything, so it cannot be faked.

@Not-Impressed, Imagine situation: You, someone & policeman.
This someone has robbed you in the sight of Policeman. Policeman did nothing. You will thank him and honestly pay taxes, or blame him?
Same situation is here, but the robber is laggy server & not accurate anti-disconect system.
The gamemasters eats bread for OUR our money. Khnomie could buy this key for HIS money and did not get repay for that. Because of what? -Mistakes of developers.
The most ridiculous thing is that Developers know, that SK have slow and broken servers and do nothing in way to get it better.
I don't even mean buying new servers, but although in-dc immunity (When game knows, that someone is someone disconected). That whole situation is just makes me laugh.

I have slow, dumb 1MB internet. I play on much online games with better and worse servers, but i don't get AnY disconectes on any of these games. I almost never lag.
In Sk situation is changed of 180 degrees. I get DC in-dungeon everyday.
Im Arcade runner, so nobody helps me [mostly because OOO's perfect balance <3]. I threw tons of energy because disconeccting. Because? My slow net? So why it don't dc me in other games, huh?

I promised to myself, i will not give broken cent to OOO, before their attitude will change.
They showed us their whole smile now. I wonder when it will look, when their will not have what to eat.

@Khnomie, good luck in speech to some sense of Game masters, good luck.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 08:59
#25
Paweu's picture
Paweu
"@Paweu He has clicked the

"@Paweu He has clicked the energy rev button, watch it again until you see"

In case you didn't notice it in general the animation of clicking is the same as hovering over i.e. you can't tell from the video whether he really [clicked to get] revived or not. He might've been just as well hovering over and not clicking.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:07
#26
Coolnew's picture
Coolnew
Tons of hugs.

@Paweu LOL: the health refilled by miracle on the screen of course xD
So useless observations in any case (click or not click).

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:11
#27
Paweu's picture
Paweu
What health refilled? There

What health refilled? There is no health refilling on the video, what are you smoking? I've watched the video and went frame by frame, his health stays at 0 right on the switch to the black screen.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:22
#28
Worknplay's picture
Worknplay
@Paweu Enough with the

@Paweu Enough with the conspiracy theories. No one would go through the trouble of editing a fake video of Spiral Knights for a goddamn shadow key. Be realistic and stop drifting the thread away from it's main purpose, being: we're not supported at all in some cases where we decently could be.

P.S. : props for checking the video frame by frame, that must have been absolutely not instructive at all on your theories.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:29
#29
Paweu's picture
Paweu
The thread purpose already

The thread purpose already ended with the first post; if someone has a problem with support, they are to take it to support and not come to the forums to bash them when they clearly were being objective and right on not refunding the key.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 12:50
#30
Coolnew's picture
Coolnew
Tons of hugs.

The purpose should be to rage and do needed and not needed things in order to try to make this ridiculous situation change.
If it's not, then it's wrong.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 13:20
#31
Thegreatpiggy's picture
Thegreatpiggy
-_-

Through my understandings in the book I have written here about the nature of human beings, and the fact that this has to do with real money, I can conclude that this thread is derp. For more information on this subject, go here.

Wed, 06/26/2013 - 20:51
#32
Rage-Soul's picture
Rage-Soul
from what i see...

from what i see, there was an obvious problem with connection, not necessarily his own internet, nor the server's problem. the part i do not understand about the video is how when you were sent to the login screen... usually, every time i lag out or lose connection, it would just login and load back to the point i was in prior to lagging out. i even went through a dreaded and spontaneous windows update in the middle of playing, just to login back to the point i was in before the update.

Sat, 07/06/2013 - 11:45
#33
Buzzshadow's picture
Buzzshadow
the lag part happens to me

the lag part happens to me all the time and got me killed countless times. the logout part is new to me though.

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