Spiral Knights - Being able to pause the game while solo

Being able to pause the game while solo

54 replies [Last post]

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 10:24

Zeddy

Simple: You hit escape when you're solo in a dungeon, and the game pauses.

I shouldn't really even have to explain why such a feature is necessary, should I? A full T3 clockwork run takes about an hour, and any amount of things could happen within that timespan without conveniently overlapping with a point in time where you've not being pelted by TVs and office supplies: Someone could ring the door, your cat could be trying to make kittens with your face, the phone could go off, your spouse could be bickering for the seventeenth time about how she's feels like you don't love her as much as videgames and it's really not helping your case if you have to tell her "Hold on, sweetheart, I love you very much but you need to give me about twenty minutes to finish off the entirety of heart of ice because if I look away from the screen for just five seconds the endlessly respawning lost souls will kill me." Maybe your dog is chewing on the power cables and it'd totally ruin your game if the dog were to electrocute itself on exposed wires, causing the fuses to blow.

So yeah, pause button. It'd be swell. Don't say it can't be done, Warframe does it.

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 10:30

Batabii

DO THIS. Many games allow it, why not Spiral Knights? It's annoying when I can't even run to the bathroom safely unless I'm behind a force field or far, far away from any enemies.

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 10:57

Oboron

I find it weird why they didn't implement this in the first place. I mean ,yeah, obviously you can't pause when with other players but why not when soloing?

Another +1 from me as this is just plain hilarious! xD

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 11:23

Waffleconecake

lel

I found out if you "lose connection" to the game but the window does not close when you get back you are right were you left off, so basicly you can pause the game by turning off your internet. But +1 either way.

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 11:26

Skyguarder

Need to pause the game?

Go to a safe area where enemies can't get you and you would be safe :3

But I'll give +1 anyways

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 11:42

Oboron

@Sky - What if you can't or

@Sky - What if you can't or there isn't one?

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 12:00

Sweet-Hope

i know how annoying could be when you going solo and then a wild task appear to stop your game and you dont have how to be "safe" from enemies without the safe button. so before to do the task i just kill quickly the enemies, then put a D Cell over the up arrow and i can do the task safely without risk my knight... but of course that dont work for all.

then people start suggest a pause button (which i dont have anything agaisnt it) but some people dont think the same...
http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/53873
http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/43433
http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/30312 (even Grievos which got ignored LOL)
http://forums.spiralknights.com/es/node/278

all of them ask Pause in solo and still people dont agree the idea.

a thing i would like to know how Spiral "server works" and Warframe "server works" because maybe thats the difference and prolly that would determine the factor if spiral can be paused or not like warframe (maybe they could share similar way to play, but the game code would be that factor).

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 12:39

Neinhart

+1 and Comments

+1 for Solo Savvy players. I expect that the pause would immediately disabled when someone joins, if implemented.

@Skyguarder
That awkward moment when you have to get the door but you're in a arena and fleeing to safety or leaving the arena isn't an option.

@Waffleconecake
Too much hassle for a simple purpose. All the more reason to avoid that and implement the pause feature.

@Sweet Hope
There is a compelling argument of being kicked off the game for idling too long in one of those. I assume if that conflicts with the hypothetical pause feature in a way.

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 13:15

The-Mighty-Potato

I actually thought of this in

I actually thought of this in the past, but never bothered to make it a topic. So instead of making another thread, here's my +1

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 13:16

Little-Juances

If anything, pausing the game would lock the party so no one joins.

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 13:36

#10

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

Hmm...if you're in a party, why not allow a pause if everyone votes for it?

To prevent exploits, your mist energy shouldn't regenerate while paused. (Exploits as in I need 1 more mist to revive, so I pause for 20 minutes and come back.)

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 17:22

#11

Skyguarder

If you pause the game, that means you can't be kicked off the server after 15 minutes?

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 17:59

#12

Ink-Incorporated

Thu, 06/27/2013 - 21:56

#13

Klipik-Forum

I thought this was an old thread someone necroed...

I was wrong. Then I thought about why.

Here's why: https://www.google.com/search?q=site:forums.spiralknights.com+pause+game...

But yeah, +1 anyhow.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 03:09

#14

Hexzyle

-1

No other MMORPG allows game pausing, for obvious reasons, especially technical limitations.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 06:50

#15

Zeddy

@Little-Juances
Yeah, that's how I imagine it too.

@Autofire
I wouldn't mind mist regeneration pausing as well with the instance. Letting a party vote for pausing sounds alright, but how would unpausing be handled? What if one of the players AFKs for far longer than the others?

@Skyguarder
That's the way I'd prefer it, honestly, but it could go both ways. I think the reason the autokick is there because idling players take up resources that aren't being used for anything, but if a player is paused they wouldn't really take up much processing power at all, would they?

@Hexzyle
That's wrong. Like I said in the opening post, Warframe allows you to pause while you're solo and there's no technical limitation behind not processing an instance in which there is only one player. If you're not able to make a pause feature you really should get out of the programming field.

@Everyone
Thanks for the support and thoughts and stuff!

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 07:30

#16

Blandaxt

hmm

I have thought about it, but if it can happen, then I'm all for it. :)

Also, make it so that chat is viable when the game is paused do that guild chat or whispers can still go through. Also, if a player whispers to a pause player, there should be an automatic system response that says player is AFK (similar to how the system responses that the player has been idle for a certain amount of minutes).

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 11:09

#17

Shidara

It honestly feels like Hexzyle is opposing the idea for the sake of being the devil's advocate. Especially if it's a solo-only feature I see no reason to be opposed to this feature, none whatsoever.

You've got my support.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 11:41

#18

Batabii

For what it matters, I find it strange that Left 4 Dead 2 lets you pause when solo, but not SK.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 11:52

#19

Sukhi

-1

This will completely change the game and when we get this, people would be demanding offline mode. As much as this is a great idea, it would work not out for a game like this.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 13:40

#20

Coelydragon

@Zeddy #15

Now the tricky part is when pausing your world coincides with the "real" world. Example: You pause because you need that one last mist. Mist pauses. Yet, in the "real" world, your offer of 7k cr gets bought. You just got 100ce, enough for that rev. You didn't have to wait extremely long. What then?

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 15:51

#21

Zeddy

@Coelydragon

Disable pausing when dead.

Sure, the player could pause if they know they're about to die and do that and... save maybe 200 crowns? Let's inconvenience every solo player out there because otherwise they'd be able to save 200 crowns very situationally.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 17:09

#22

Hingy

@Coelydragon I think that's

@Coelydragon
I think that's the point of pausing.. say you needed the 1 mist to revive when you're cornered and just knew you were about to die. You pause the game to save yourself some time for that extra mist. Then your offer gets bought and you revive. Simple? My point is, the reviving countdown is a little over 2 minutes, and mist takes about 10 minutes. You'd be pretty lucky to get your mist in time.

Anyway +1 :)

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 17:28

#23

Coelydragon

Whoa

No offense dude. I like the idea myself but there's bugs in it. It seems too complex. Must be solo, must be alive. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it takes much but I think there should be an easier way around this. I'm going to say (and I doubt this is a good idea) that /afk should allow other players to commence stepping on the party pad so that you can be dragged along. Movement and damage (both done by and to you) would be disabled. Possibly mat/cr/heat gathering too. The command would be ineffective upon death, besides the auto respond.

@Sukhi
So? They don't have to do it. It's an MMO. Game-changing, perhaps, but there would still be enough for people to rather play in groups than solo.

@Hingy
I'm referring to buying CE on the CE market.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 17:40

#24

Blandaxt

Pause

When you pause the game, it will not disconnect you from the rest of the servers in spiral knights. In theory, all that pauses is the instance that solo player is currently playing. Things such as mail, chat, and auction are all still connected to the player. All that pauses are the player's actions, the monsters actions, and any attack the monsters or the players might have launched. Everything else should be operational. I cannot see out of the top of my head how a player can take advantage of this or abuse it.

Also, once another player joins in the game, this pause feature will be disabled, and can only be activated again when that player goes solo again.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 18:51

#25

Hexzyle

@Zeddy

Does warframe process enemy actions, aggro, and positions on a remote server or on the hosts/client's PC, and additionally dish out location corrections when the client is laggy?

I know a couple FPS games that allow pausing, such as UT2004 and Counter Strike. However these games don't exactly have statuses, aggro, cooldowns and the like. And the pausing function existed since the start of the game, and the developers of those games built the game around those functions on an engine that supported it. I feel that implementing something like this to the game would present a wall of bugs and exploits that would take weeks, even months of tracking down and fixing. I can bring up a large list of all the bugs that could arise if you want, as both contribution (showing developers what they should ensure doesn't happen if they did implement this) and opposition (displaying why it would be so technically difficult to implement)

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 20:56

#26

Zeddy

@Hexzyle

Warframe is processed client-side. I've suggested SK do this as well, as you already know. UT2004 has all of those things you mentioned, by the way. Guns have a cooldown between firing, UT2004 came with a horde mode that opposed you and friends against enemies that, yes, had aggro, and while I don't recall if the game had statuses per se, at least one mod lets you set enemies on fire. (And yes, that mod can be paused, even in multiplayer.)

If SK's server-side works anything like I imagine it does, like any videogame for PCs made after cirka 1990, will run a subroutine for each instance at set intervals. Between these intervals, the routine is not running, and the game is thus already pausing dozens of times per second. A pause button could just use that, for instance.

But perhaps it's not so clean. We're talking about game servers that get rebooted every 24 hours for no apparent reason, after all.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 21:20

#27

Klipik-Forum

I don't think I understand what Hex, Coely, or Sukhi are trying to get at.

Sukhi, how does pausing logically progress to an offline mode?

Coely, what is there to be exploited if mist regeneration is paused with the game? The only situation where this would let you do something you could not have done before is if you got enough crowns to post an offer for CE from the last enemy you killed as you died. Otherwise, you could have posted the offer earlier and gotten the same result. You can even eliminate this by not pausing the kick timer with the rest of the game, although in that situation there wouldn't be any point of pausing anyway.

Hex, I don't see any reason for this to be technically unfeasible, at least in theory. All NPC and environment actions in an SK instance are created and processed on a server and then sent to the player, correct? All a pause button would do is lock player actions, such as movement, attack, chatting, etc - and send a command to the server to freeze the level in its current state and stop updating. The server would then wait for the "unpause" command, at which point player movement client-side would be unlocked, and the environment would unfreeze.
Also, saying that "no other MMORPG does this" discounts the fact that most other MMOs are open-world, and do not. Allow a player to contain him/herself in a small instance with no gameplay interference from other players.

Fri, 06/28/2013 - 21:22

#28

Sweet-Hope

maybe whats Hexzyle was trying to say its that, those games was coded having in mind that player could pause in any moment (in the case of warframe when youre alone) while spiral was not intended to have a "pause option" at first sight. so adding a Pause option right now because spiral knights dont have the code would make a mess with the game and will take a long time to fix it (or they have to rewrite from scratch wich will take more time).

thats why i said probably in the game code its where the thing its, if the game can have pause or not, now talking about mod its pretty simple, its like Zdoom which added most of new features to doom (and its clones) giving you the option to make it completely a new game with new features and so on and you can pause it online because the game (Doom) was programmed to have pause. so in the case of UT2004 simple again.. the game already have implemented pause on it. so any mod not matter what featured would have, the game will allow you to put pause. Same with other fps online...

about warframe because probably was programmed since it start to have that feature. maybe Nick can tell us if a this point its possible to spiral to have a Pause option?

also didnt GMs can "make enemies" be frozen when there a bug with them? i never have been in such situation so idk if any of you have been where the game bugs with some enemies call a GM and they "pause" the game before restart the map or something like that?.

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 18:40

#29

Hexzyle

The issue with making SK client based is that you then make it hackable. And when I say cooldowns, I'm not talking about weapon cooldowns, as that's pl/pausable (take stun for example, it shows the developers can pause things mid-attack, but it took them a hell of a long time before they actually fixed it)... I actually don't know what I meant when I said that... sorry. I would say more but I'm not all-knowing on how enemy AI and attacks works.

I'll start again. Assuming nothing is changed with where enemy actions are handled (they're left on the server), when the game is paused, that's all good and well. But what happens when the game is unpaused? A large number of enemy's variables have to be sent to the client in that one moment, (unless you had some sort of counter or loading bar for unpausing... which sounds a tad silly) resulting in lag.

And would there be a restriction to pausing? It seems like a lot of players (myself included) would hit it in troublesome situations so that they can plan a path out.

Not trying to be the devils advocate on this. I think it would be a good idea.
But the kinks have to be ironed out before I consider supporting, and I'm not going to be here forever to solve everyone's problems. One day I'll pass on.

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 20:34

#30

Zeddy

"A large number of enemy's variables have to be sent to the client in that one moment, (unless you had some sort of counter or loading bar for unpausing... which sounds a tad silly) resulting in lag."

I see where you're coming from on this, but there's no reason those variables can't be sent as the game is being paused rather than as the game is being unpaused.

"And would there be a restriction to pausing? It seems like a lot of players (myself included) would hit it in troublesome situations so that they can plan a path out."

Well, they could do the tetris thing and blank out the screen so you can't look at the game while it's paused. I already mentioned the pause would happen when you hit escape, meaning the bulk of the battle would be covered up by the escape menu anyway. Of course, clever players could hit the screenshot button before pausing. I don't really see a problem with players planning and thinking when playing the game; it allows players to prepare for and think about how to deal with a situation without having to have played the setpiece before.

To prevent the pause from being used as a pseudo slow-motion (you didn't mention this but it's a common exploit with pause features), there could be a second-long or so cooldown on pausing.

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 21:23

#31

Klipik-Forum

@Hex

"(unless you had some sort of counter or loading bar for unpausing... which sounds a tad silly)"

This seems completely reasonable to me. Many games where lots of things are going on at once - such as bullet hells or RTS - have a countdown timer prior to unpausing to counter lag as well as give you a chance to remember where you were before you paused. As for using it when you are in a tough situation to see a way out... Honestly I don't see much of a problem with that either, but if OOO does, having the esc menu screen cover your character seems like enough of a countermeasure for that anyway.

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 21:24

#32

Hexzyle

What if someone joined you when you were paused? Should the restriction be when you pause, it automatically locks your party, and all invites are made invalid? That's a tricky thing to implement.

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 21:32

#33

Klipik-Forum

@Hex

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/83163#comment-735065

Sat, 06/29/2013 - 21:58

#34

Hexzyle

@Klipik-Forum

You still have to invalidate invites. Currently people can still join a party even if it's locked against both friends and guildies if they have a still valid invite.
What about revive timers? Should they be paused or not?

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 12:35

#35

Mtax

+1. Wonderfull idea. On vacation, going solo is suicide cuz of lagspikes. With that we should be able to pause game, reset it and play again, without loss of energy, because of servers. -.-'

EDIT: Imo, it could be not only for solo. What about voting-for-pause? :)

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 01:33

#36

Kimahsonite

Because why not?

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 06:11

#37

Scramineagle

Yep.. I totally agree with that!

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 07:00

#38

Blitzsonic

We need that

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 10:54

#39

Zeddy

@Hexzyle

Do valid invites let you enter restricted parties? Parties where someone went solo or are at a boss floor?

Genuine question, I haven't tried.

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 12:24

#40

Addisond

Usually this isn't necessary. If you can't get to a stopping point (SK is designed to have lots) in time, then it's probably very, very urgent. And if it is, there are CE revs- but I don't really see any problem. However, I'd VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT if OOO would make it possible to extend your logout time somehow. SK frequently overlaps with meals and other half-hour-y tasks for me, and getting logged out is pretty frustrating.

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 15:57

#41

Pine-Fresh

I definitely agree with this. There are times when something in real life may demand your attention straight away, not allowing time for you to get to a safe zone or eliminate all the enemies in a certain area. I had to leave OCH immediately to deliver a ham a couple miles away, one time (though luckily the party I was in didn't kick me and I was able to come back in time to revive everyone during the boss fight-- if there was a pause button, I could have safely gone solo and paused the game without having to worry about energy reviving when I came back).

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 17:49

#42

Skyguarder

"Do valid invites let you enter restricted parties? Parties where someone went solo or are at a boss floor?"

Actually, OOO should add a message. If that happens, then the chat log would say "Cannot join [Player]'s party. The party is restricted". It would be like an error.

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 21:51

#43

Hexzyle

I believe restricted parties send an error to joiners. So maybe pausing a party would restrict it? That would be an effective but crude way to make it work.
However, if someone goes solo, hit the next depth, and their party is still locked but not restricted, you can join them if they've invited you previously.

Here's an interesting fact: You can join a party even if the person who invited you left the party, as long as someone from that expedition is still in the clockworks.

Sun, 06/30/2013 - 23:06

#44

Klipik-Forum

@Hex: I don't think temporarily restricting the party would be "crude"... It's utilizing an existing system for its intended purpose, to keep all players out.

@Sky: if you have a previous invite to someone's party or click "join" next to their name after they move to a restricted zone, you get the message, "Oops! [player] is no longer joinable." Annoyingly, you also get this message when you try to join someone spectating a coliseum game.

Mon, 07/01/2013 - 23:52

#45

Coelydragon

@Klipik #27
If I set a bid for CE then die, I can pause the game for, say, an hour until it comes up, then revive. I have a feeling we're completely mission each other's points...

@Zeddy
Why not disable pausing while dead, but enable it for both parties and solo. This could work if you made it so that you were effectively dead upon pausing. You'd be dragged along to party pads, you couldn't move, you couldn't attack. The only difference would be that in parties you wouldn't gain any crowns/heat while paused. Only problems I see with this is alt-pausing, but alt dragging is already a semi-exploit, and elevators. I suppose there could be an option to map out when to return to haven once you pause but that'd be kinda clumsy.

Mon, 07/01/2013 - 23:56

#46

Klipik-Forum

Why make a semi-exploit worse?

And how often does it take over 3 minutes for an offer at the right price to be accepted? Not very often... And even in the case that it does, you always have the trade tab. More expensive, slightly, but instant gratification. :P

Tue, 07/02/2013 - 00:23

#47

Asukalan

http://i.qkme.me/35nb17.jpg

Also exploitable, you are alone, you are about to die, you want to complete something but you are about to die, so you just pause game and ask your friends in other way when they will be able to join you and then you unpause game so they come and help you while normally you would need to either die and use CE to rev or quit area forfeiting loot that could be found there, return to haven and start depth again.

Tue, 07/02/2013 - 02:54

#48

Hexzyle

Since we're busting out the memes :P

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/38013966.jpg

Tue, 07/02/2013 - 03:36

#49

Infernoburner

Derpuraptor strikes back

Yeah, +1.
That's all I got to say.

Tue, 07/02/2013 - 04:32

#50

Jenovasforumchar

agree +1

i like the idea. but people must not be able to join someone who has paused the game.

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Being able to pause the game while solo