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Basil invites : Scam or not? For newbies

21 replies [Last post]
Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:09
roflmao35
Legacy Username

I know i don't go on the forums often very much, and i know theres threads about Basil and terminal tickets already, but i'm concerned with something different, which I have never seen anything about on my 2 page search for "basil invite", or is ignored and pushed down the abyss of the archives.

Of course, if you're reading this from what the topic name is, you're probably a newbie who has probably no idea how this thing works. I'll break it down simply.

Ask for an invite -> Get into terminal -> Buy the recipe -> Pay the ticket price -> Leave.

That's how it works in text form. However if you find something different from the chain of events up there, such as paying the ticket price before the invite happens,

It's a scam.

Why am I telling this?
I'm concerned with the outflux of new players who have had extremely difficult times with the CE price of nearing 5k CR per 100 CE. Several of my friends have been scammed from the fake terminal tickets who have proven to be false and the same old people.

Why should you believe me?
It's simple logic. Technically, from the chain of events I've listed up there, even if the guy kicks you, you are still safe inside the terminal. It is definite that even if you are kicked, the shop list STAYS the same. Even if the guy has a motive to scam your money, you should be able to buy another recipe, sell it for a mark-up to gain back the profit. HOWEVER, if you pay before he invites you, and he decides to scam you, there is no way to get that ticket price you farmed so much for, back.

So there it is. Some clarification and help for the newbie who apparently got scammed and ragequit.

How should the mods handle this?
Make the terminal a restricted area, as like treasure vaults. This will stop the possible scamming, get back the player's recipe market, and stop new players from ragequitting.

How should the actual ticketers handle this?
Definitely, stop the terminal tickets because it ruins the recipe market. However, i understand that making money in this way is one of the better farming ways, so i shall still suggest the chain of events if you really want to do terminal ticketing.

As a note and side-tip, here are the non-definite prices for different star-rating items and terminal tickets. I shall ignore tier 1 and 1-2* for obvious reasons

3* recipe mark-up : around 1k (or around 6.5k after calculation)
4* recipe mark-up : around 2k (or around 17k after calculation)
5* recipe mark-up : around 3k (or around 48k after calculation)

Tier 2 : around 2k ticket price
Tier 3 : around 3k ticket price

I shall be expecting scammers who are going to flame me for ruining their business.

As viper901's suggestion, a better movement would be of the simpler, non-possible scammable way which is the compose message function.

The buyer who wants a recipe asks for it. The seller then asks his comrade inside the terminal to get the recipe, and send it to him using the compose message function for an extra 100 crowns. The seller then trades the buyer this thing.

This is completely safe until some idiot players appeared who don't respond after trading and can't understand english.

The compose message function is through clicking the message button on the top left of the screen, click the compose message button, type recipient's name, click attach button on the bottom right of the dialog box, drag and drop the item, and click send. There you have it, except you lose 100 crowns.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:17
#1
chalor
Legacy Username
A few comments. Firstly,

A few comments.

Firstly, there's nothing wrong with a seller asking for payment before offering an invite. It requires the same level of trust for the seller to invite first at the risk of not being paid, with the difference that if the seller turns out to be a scammer, they are quite easy to discredit immediately.

Secondly, while there might be a standard set of markups/prices that are often used, anything in Spiral Knights is worth whatever someone will pay for it. People shouldn't be absolutely incensed to find people charging more, or jump on any deals where people are charging less than the prices you've listed.

Just my two crowns, as it were.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:31
#2
roflmao35
Legacy Username
The problem here is newbies

The problem here is newbies getting scammed.

Though, let's put it in your scenario. Buyers do not pay the sellers. The seller probably already has 5* equipment with max heat has a lot more opportunities to take that 3k crowns off the player, while the buyer is probably some one who needs money desperately just to upgrade his equipment. The average player who is struggling to get to 5* usually don't want to just stand around doing nothing but selling tickets. They need heat to upgrade too. If the seller does get scammed instead of the buyer, he can think of it as a good deed no? Not everything in spiral knights is about profit; though this game revolves around capitalism, it doesn't mean it can't have a great community.

I do agree the prices may fluctuate due to demand, but apparently thats the highest people are willing to buy excluding rare cases. I'll rephrase it though, thanks.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:34
#3
Awesomest
Legacy Username
Why didn't I think of this?

If I was invited before I paid, I could totally Go Solo or get booted from the party before trading with the port sellers. That way, I could abuse their trust and get my recipes for free.

Great idea!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:36
#4
viper901
Legacy Username
I'm confused a little bit by

I'm confused a little bit by the wording in your post. Are you saying that you paid a person for the price of the recipe instead of Basil? If so that's kind of a hard scam to pull off, and would only happen to somebody who doesn't understand basic trade mechanics (there's two windows in the trade interface, if the thing you want is not in the other window don't click "confirm").

Secondly is the issue of whether or not to pay the 'teleport' price in Haven or once you arrive in the terminal. Either way there is a risk of somebody getting screwed, either the guy selling the port who doesn't get paid after he invites or the player who paid up in Haven and never got an invite. The player paying in Haven is by far the worst I agree, since the guy selling the port isn't really hurt that much if somebody skimps on him. Maybe instead of trying to set price fixing you should just try to start a movement where everybody who gets a port pays in the terminal and not in Haven?

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:48
#5
Tive's picture
Tive
Or just only trust people

Or just only trust people using /2

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 05:49
#6
roflmao35
Legacy Username
@viper901 It means you pay

@viper901

It means you pay the ticket price to get into the terminal, however if the seller skimps on that then the buyer doesn't get his recipe but loses his ticket price (eg. 3k)

Second part is exactly what i'm clarifying with newbies about.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 06:31
#7
Kaybol
Legacy Username
Yet another solution looking for a problem

So far it's really hard to get scammed in this game. People who report getting "scammed" are actually saying: I traded crowns/materials/CE in exchange for a promise. If it's not in the trade box, odds are you're not getting it. It's very easy to avoid this: don't trade something for nothing.

If you do trade something in exchange for a promise and you feel scammed, /complain [player]. You may not get your stuff back, but scammers do get taken care of in this game.

If you can't do either of the above, well you're setting yourself up.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 09:08
#8
Kilbride's picture
Kilbride
Okay, so firstly...

If this is really directed at new players, this is the wrong forum for it.

Secondly, the person selling the invite is the one building the reputation of integrity. I always get payment first and never overcharge or scam individuals. I once tried to invite someone and then receive payment. It was disagreeable; I ended up booting him and then mailing him 500 crowns to refund part of his T3 gate fee.

I know that I am honest and I know my conscience will bother me if I'm not. But I'm wise enough to know that the Internet provides enough anonymity that otherwise decent people will be less than ethical. I will always receive payment first.

Also, your post was way too long. Thanks for the perspective, tho'.

-Kilbride, Knights Itinerant

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 10:36
#9
Nick's picture
Nick
Developer
Our next update will make

Our next update will make 'Basil invites' obsolete. Might want to get out of the habit of doing those now!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 11:17
#10
Tisiphone's picture
Tisiphone
Aw what?

But it's SO PROFITABLE!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 12:05
#11
Vlad's picture
Vlad
Huh?

Like is it a safer way of using basil invites? o.o

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 12:05
#12
Vlad's picture
Vlad
Huh?

Like is it a safer way of using basil invites? o.o

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 12:53
#13
Senshi
Legacy Username
Unlikely

It is probably either stopping invites to terminals altogether, or possibly and hopefully the auction house. If you can buy recipes from a player market at any time, basil invites would become pretty unimportant. There's other possibilities too, but code to support basil invites is pretty much the opposite of what nick said!

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 12:55
#14
Splinter's picture
Splinter
Basil levels might be locked

Basil floors might be locked like boss levels, similar to say when people are fighting the Jelly King.

This might backfire in an interesting way where recipes actually become slightly more rare and more expensive. May be countered by the release of an Auction House though.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 14:52
#15
Senshi
Legacy Username
Honestly...

What I really want to see is for it to cost zero energy to enter the terminal levels, and just have Basil not sell to people who came in late. I think I once got a recipe by accepting a guildmate invite to see Basil. I've many, many times payed a pointless 10 energy to enter the terminal, and a couple times lost my chance to join a party because other people filled the party in the terminal when I was waiting for the party to enter the next level and avoid that 10ce waste.

If the auction house accepts recipes, well, they'll all be pretty cheap and pretty constantly available and recipe-hunting will be a thing of the past. If it -doesnt'- accept recipes, than the nightmare of trade chat will live on. :O

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:12
#16
ShoeShoe
Legacy Username
Are you guys serious? Basil

Are you guys serious? Basil invites are the only things that sell at a consitent price, and you want it to be taken out? I have never been scammed, and I never scammed one who has paid first. Frankly, I think you baby stupid people too much. If they decide to give 4k to someone in all proto gear named odfsgjgnnsdjnd 4k to go to Basil, that is entirely their fault. Don't punish the rest of us for it.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:23
#17
Splinter's picture
Splinter
@ShoeShoe

Scamming is only part of it. The other being that the idea of Basil is to find random recipes from exploring the clockworks and going deep enough, I believe the intention of Basil was not to have people bypassing this by sending out invites for crowns, or even for free.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 15:31
#18
ShoeShoe
Legacy Username
@Paska

If the devs didn't want people to send invites, they would have restricted it. Plain and simple.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 16:05
#19
Senshi
Legacy Username
Apparently...

They didn't realize what would happen with trade chat and didn't realize they needed to restrict it before they released trade-chat. Unforeseen consequences and all that.

Anyway, it doesn't matter... the devs have decided that Basil invites are going to be made 'obsolete'. The only question really is just -how- that's going to happen. And that question is one to wonder about, not to decide on... the decision is already made. Just waiting for it to roll out now.

Mon, 05/16/2011 - 21:31
#20
Negimasonic's picture
Negimasonic
:-( I don't particularly care

:-( I don't particularly care about the basil invite stuff but it sure helped me out when I was recipe hunting with friends and guildmates, sending over money is a pain and a risk anyway (this isn't talking about Basil selling).

Besides, it has to be something more than Basil floor invites. Otherwise it'd be...

Get to the end of d12, send your friend on ahead (as go solo), tell them to scout what's there and report back, if its good, you start selling from D12 instead. (split parties still end up with the same Basil).

So yeah unless they randomize it or its AH related, it's not much help (and locking the floor above Basil is just too much =x). And I hope they're not killing the invite system altogether because of Basil, I invited a friend in today to save us on a vanaduke run. I'd hate that to disappear =x This needs to be handled very carefully or its going to mess up people who do use this for social purposes.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 12:09
#21
Kilbride's picture
Kilbride
Good comments above...

Ideally, I'd like to see it set up so each party member gets different recipes at Basil. It'd gently address the issue and further reward running in groups. That might just turn the invites into a gamble tho', so maybe that wouldn't work in practice. I am fortunate to have a guild that is set up to craft a pretty wide variety of items already but I'm looking for some specific recipes. If nothing else, we have the forums and such to post wishlists.

I am not a game developer and will support whatever gets implemented. I love this game, heh.

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