I'm going to keep this from going too deep into details as I want the devs to just have a general idea for how it will work as I honestly don't know damage values that well and the bars are missleading any way.
Death Cry line, it would be the pure shadow damage variation of this and be the "normal" or, usual one of the two.
Infernal Intent is the name of the 5 star version of the fire variation, less shadow damage to instead have fire damage.
Attacks and stuff
Both of these guns would have a 2 shots for the basic attack. The charge attack will fire a holographic howlitzer skull that blows up once it runs out of time (3 seconds of flight time or something) or hits a thing. The only changes that will happen is that the 5 II (infernal Intent) leaves a fire ring like the fire jugs were the skull hits while the DC (death Cry) leaves a gravitational vortex that lasts for 1 second and deals no damage. when either of these gun lines reach 4 stars the charge attack skull will fallow the player's cursor with the tracking ability of the tire 2 howlitzers. The 5 star might get tire 3 howlitzer chasing abilty but it isn't needed.
EDIT: Clip reduced to 2 from 4 for balance reasons. Charge time would be very long and would cause major slow. The 2 bonus effects on the charge are not required and are only an idea.
appearance
Whelp. I finally did it. Look at it here :l
The Death Cry! a fire/shadow variation as well!
"Fire Shadow weapon" implied the weapon you're suggesting would be split Elemental/Shadow. Very misleading.
/me facepalms a centillion times.
Status doesn't depend on damage. It could be fire, but it could still deal shadow without having to deal elemental. Volcanic Pepperbox is pure normal, and it deals fire therefore your criticism is fallacious.
You going to just point out my mistakes or make an actual contribution to the topic, which is OPs idea for a gun
I just said that one reply, and you act like that all I did on the thread was do nothing but corrections.
My reply is a suggestion correction so it can help you come up with better feedback.
It's not like I was correcting grammar.
@Misty-Wellington
Lets see, here are you elemental loves, 1 2 3 (my favorite) 4 5 67 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1718 1920
And here is your piercing love.
1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10
Oh and um.. here is like the uh shadow love or something.... 12 3 4 5 6
I hope these make it clear to why we don't need any more elemental love, and definable more shadow. I do agree we need more piercing but shadow needs it more. The reason why it isn't shadow/elemental is because that would only make it good vs slimes and maybe constructions. We don't need unclear specialized weapons.
Status inflict - Damage for that weapon
Fire - Elemental or Normal or Piercing
Shock - Elemental or Shadow
Freeze - Elemental or Normal
Poison - Normal or Shadow
Stun - Normal or Piercing
Curse - Shadow
Your suggested gun:
Fire - Shadow
u r bad at this.
Status are not damage type rigged. We have a normal, shadow, and elemental weapons that cause poison status. We have normal, piercing, and elemental weapons that cause fire. We don't have any shadow shock weapons fyi so that one is flawed. We have elemental stun weapon as well.
Currently if we are going by your set up logic then the fallowing enemies are invalid: Fire Branders , fire guts , Ruby Greaver , Alpha Voltail Volt tail To name a few, I shouldn't need to list all the current things in the game that doesn't fallow your preset status/damage rules. The only one that should have a rule is curse.
Rigging the game to these kind of things only limit the combinations players can use and take away the ability to build any style set is stupid.
Your argument is invalid.
Make the Shadow Antigua (lol, i own it yet i dont even know its name) have a chance to inflict fire.
Why would it cause fire? that makes no seance. The thing is Sentenza is meant to be a shadow weapon good for gremlins. Not a shadow fire weapon.
The Argent Peacemaker is the twin to the Sentenza, so they should be similar but opposite. If this was done then the AP should cause freeze (and no it shouldn't, neither of them need a status effect).
Limiting statuses to certain damage types because they fit them the most is a bad move. Statuses are coefficients that should work with ANY damage type, so as to offer more itemization choices.
It's easiest to imagine a Fire/Shock/Freeze weapon dealing Elemental damage, as evidenced by our current pool of weaponry, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a Piercing-Freeze weapon, or even a Shadow-Fire gun.
As for this suggestion, you're pretty much asking for a mouse-tracking rocket launcher that also happens to have 4 shots on its weaker, typical attacks. It also has lingering AoE effects. This is a weapon that has crowd control, mobility/safety, high damage potential, ease of use... and, well, the 'home-in-on-your-mouse' mechanics could open up some exploits. Please, no. I don't want another weapon like the Brandish line.
Concerning your statement about "AP and Sentenza being twins that should be similar but opposite", no, they really shouldn't have to be opposites. They're the same weapon line, the only difference between them being their damage type. A true opposite to the Antigua would be a slow-shooting, low-mobility gun that (ideally) deals high damage per bullet: the Magnus line. AP and Sentenza would both need to get statuses purely for balance reasons.
You have a point Dray, I guess the charge time should be rather long and slowing to use. Maybe even reduce the clip to 2 shots? :l
I only thought of the 2 aoe effects to make it more of a player style choice if any thing. They can be dropped.
*SIGHT* ...
@Waffleconecake, i think a Shadow weapon can't really be affected with a Fire Status. However, i like the idea about your new gun!
And, it dosen't really matter if your draw suck. We just need a detailed draw of your gun so developpers can create it! BTW, it might be helpfull if you can also draw the stats of your gun under/on top/beside, however... You know? ;)
This is really making me mad! STATUS DOESN'T DEPEND ON DAMAGE TYPE! It's making me clucking fished.
There can be a shadow-fire weapon.
@Scramineagle
I understand were you are coming from these. Allot of our current status in some way seem like only some of things can produce, but here is the thing, what we pick to cause what comes down to opinion. Some might think poison should be a shadow/piercing only because wild animals may use the poison as a defense while the darker monsters abuse it for a way to out damage enemies. Others might think it should be a normal/shadow status because we make our own poisons so they would be engineered and should only be normal/shadow.
The only status that really should be kept to a single damage type is curse.
Whelp, finished the drawing :l
A complete list of all the damage+status combinations currently in the game:
normal+stun
normal+fire
normal+freeze
normal+shock
normal+poison
elemental+stun
elemental+fire
elemental+freeze
elemental+shock
elemental+poison
pierce+stun
pierce+fire
pierce+poison
shadow+shock
shadow+poison
normal+shadow+curse
Now decide what damage type+status combinations are lacking.
I'm not bad at this, im listing facts. You suck, and my argument is valid. Fire inflicting shadow weapon is illogical
How ever, I did forget Plauge and Venom veiler... But that's poison, not fire.
This is just a bad idea.
Can you give me any logical argument why there needs to be consistency between statuses and damage types?
This is fantasy. Some fantasy games actually use a shadowy fire.
If there's no logic in shadow dealing fire, how come there's fire variants of devilites and gorgos along with fiery undead varaints?
According to your logic, there'd be no logic for a shadow bomb that shocks.
@Theirillusion
"I'm right because I say so, and you are wrong because I say so" That is literally all you have said in this thread Theirillusion.
Would you like to explain why you are right? or are you just going to say you are right because "it is wrong".
CONVINCE ME YOU ARE RIGHT.
The reason why I think you are wrong is because forcing single portions of a games DIVERSITY mechanics only make them worse, why would we won't to limit status and damage type pairings. It is one of the things in this game that make it interesting, the idea that at some point you can do just about any damage and any status effect with a single weapon.
I feel the status effect feature in this game is a diversity mechanic because just about any one or any thing can cause most status effects. The only thing that can't currently are non-undead monsters because of curse and you know what, I'm fine with curse being limited to shadow only. It makes seance, but limiting fire to only piercing and elemental doesn't to me, why? are we throwing the idea of Hell Fire out? the entire concept of FSC? the idea of a city corrupted with fire and dark energy?
Get over the fact that you don't like me, these personal attacks on my thread are only making you look worse because of how narrow minded you are acting on this subject. Attack my suggestion because you think it is bad with why you think it is bad, don't attack my thread because you think I'm bad.
That bomb only exists because of its previous version, split damage normal and piercing had shock inflict. And it was suppose to be an anti slime bomb, so they changed it and kept shock along with the slime damage bonus. Trojans are a non-status adaptable enemy that has a shard looking back that causes shadow damage with shock inflict. So i guess there is logic too.
Enemies with status versions has the 4 basic statuses as forms. Fire, Freeze, Poison ans Shock. Completely diffrent subject. From this rule they made appearances and names that fit with the status. For example fire devilites being found in "Everybody's Fired".
.
As for logic with damage with certain statuses: Fire, Freeze, Poison, Shock are level themes as well as statuses. These are found in traps with PURE ELEMENTAL damage. We can also find Spikes without damage inflict that causes stun (so far only in PvP) and Poisonous thorn bushes that deal normal damage. I'm just saying, there is a reason there are no shadow traps. Even rotating small fire(?) orbs (mario rip off) that are found in shadow levels deals normal damage. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think a more relevant question about a shadow+fire weapon is why we would need one. This weapon will be effective against the following families:
*Slimes
*Gremlins
*Beasts
*Constructs
*It will be most useful against Ice Cubes, for obvious reasons.
*The shadow damage will murder gremlins, but they will take decreased damage from the fire. You'd be better-served with freeze or poison statuses, or with a non-status shadow weapon.
*Constructs are neutral to shadow, but they will be heavily damaged by the fire. You'd be better-served with a Firotech Alchemer.
*It will be least useful against beasts, since they are only neutral to shadow and take decreased damage from fire. You'd be better-served with a piercing weapon.
So basically, this weapon's niche will be in the Ice Queen Shadow Lair.
You can decide whether it's worth the trouble to design and make this kind of weapon.
EDIT: According to the Ash of Agni fire damage table, lichens take increased damage from fire in general, followed by regular jellies. So this weapon would be highly useful against the entire slime family, and Ice Cubes in particular.
I believe that fire and shadow is completely logical. For one, we have fire and shadow in one of our boss stratums (FSC). Plus fire and darkness(death and evil) can be related to in real life examples.
Hell: Generally depicted as a fiery place where demons and other things that lurk in the dark reside.
Cremation: The burning of dead bodies.
Honestly, I think normal and fire and poison and normal is more illogical.
~Ethanol
please note that the fire tiles in FSC are called shadow fire.
+1 to the idea.
Please note that shadow fire does not deal shadow damage.
-.-
Theirillusion, you said it wouldn't be logical for shadow to be associated with fire, but we gave reasons to how it could be put together with fire.
I'm tempted to just start ignoring your posts at this point Theirillusion.
When we provide you with an answers to why shadow and fire can work together you just seem to ignore it and continue disagreeing with us for the sake of disagreeing.
I'm going to have to ask you to comment only on the pure shadow damage variation(The one that causes the vortex) to avoid you causing any more unnecessary quarrels in my thread.
But it's a -1, simply because I have a feeling it will be kinda OP. It would also make Ice Queen too easy (Slime and freeze). Yes, I know Ice queen isn't a common run, but still...
Not to mention that we don't really need this weapon. If you want a shadow weapon then just get an ordinary shadow weapon. >_>
Also may I say...THAT THERE ISN'T A STORYLINE UPDATE, SO IT HAS TO BE -1 (obvious sarcasm and a joke).
Do you really have to say no to people in the unkindest way?
"I'm tired of you, grow up or get out." Is it really necessary to say that? Just because s/he doesn't like you're idea doesn't mean you start hating on someone.
"No canine, NO." - Why not just say that you're not keen on that idea?
Your replies are pretty rude and make you sound like a Jerk.
P.S I'm pretty sure Freeze, Shock, and Poison Howlitzers would disagree too :P
@Theirillusion
It's not illogical. It's an average idea but I wouldn't go as far as to put it into the game, also damage type weapons can deal whatever status OOO wants them to deal. If they made a piercing gun with shock resistance you would probably think that poison or stun on a piercing gun is crazy, and illogical. <_<
"Don't be an ass Francis" - Bill
Be kind, play nicely, and respect other players!
-Potato
@Levenza
I'm just going to point out we don't have a large selection of shadow weapons to pick from, that is the issue here I want to fix. In I think my second post here I linked all SIX of them, and one is a DLC exclusive so it is more like 5.5 shadow weapons. I get the fire variation might break ice levels and tbh the fire variation isn't really needed, we just need a new interesting weapon that has a pure shadow variation avaible.
What do you think would be broken about it (talking about the pure shadow variation, not fire type here)? It would be pure shadow damage so it won't be that very good vs non-slimes and non-gremlins. The charge may offer allot of CC with the vortex effect but it won't be stack-able, like once you fire a second charge attack any vortexes still around from the gun despawn. The vortexes would only last for like a second and a half before despawning. They wouldn't even do damage, just a crowd control.
I mean all I really want the gun to have is the 2 clip size, pure shadow damage, and a howlitzer skull style charge attack that fallows the player's cursor. the charge time could be super long but it needs to be there so it won't just be a copy of the umbra driver.
Also I don't act rude to everyone :) just people who I don't think are worth my time.
Then that's a problem, isn't it? It's important to be civil to everyone, even those you dislike. Rudeness unjustly demeans people who are your equals.
Yes, there is a Shadow weapon that deals shock "Shocking Salt Bomb"
@ThierIllusion
If it is not logical to have a Shadow weapon that deals fire, how does Firestorm Citadel make sense?
"Shadow" Fire in FSC deals Elemental damage as a gameplay mechanic- do you want to take shadow defense for the actual enemies, or elemental defense for the traps and hazards?
Forgot about that one Ninja, thanks.
I didn't look through it. I saw it, but didn't bother to look into it.
Ninja-Gyles shouldn't have had to tell you.
I put it there for a reason, you know.
I get that,but I'm not going to check every link you post when it is a list of weapons.
You don't have to check every link. If you ever start to say, "We don't have a shadow+shock weapon," glance at the list and see if that is true. If you want to see an example of such a weapon, hover the mouse over it or click on it.
I just glanced at the list mate, none the less thanks for the list.
"Fire Shadow weapon" implied the weapon you're suggesting would be split Elemental/Shadow. Very misleading.
I question the usefulness of the charge attacks, and all 3 of them have significantly different charge attacks, one which shares an identical function to the Graviton Vortex (which is weird considering they're in the same gun line which is Howlitzer-themed?), but wouldn't say no to a Shadow gun that's stronger than Sentenza but weaker than Shadowtech acting as a compromise between the two.
But where's the love for Piercing and Elemental?