I've found that using curse vials against turrets is a great way to take them out quickly and painlessly, and I'm wondering how effective of a tactic using the Gran Faust's charge attack to snipe out the turrets and inflict curse would be. I don't think the attack itself would do much damage given the various damage types and resistances in play, but given how effective the curse vials have been in my Tier one and two missions, I don't think that would matter. Any thoughts?
Gran Faust as a Turret sniper?
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 09:01
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 09:34
#2
@Dementia-Praecox
Hey, don't forget Iron Slug!
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 09:54
#3
more comments
Gran Faust's curse rate against monsters is not terrible, so your basic idea would probably work. One issue is that GF takes a really long time to charge, and while you are charging you move slowly. (Data here.) So there are certainly faster, safer ways to take out a turret. If you carry very few weapons, then GF's user curse is also fairly dangerous, as Dementia-Praecox noted. If you have four weapon slots, then this is less of an issue.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 13:35
#4
I've tried using it for that, but it takes way longer than just killing the turret. Several magnitudes longer. The charge is only really good for crowds of enemies.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 13:50
#5
If you have 4 slots to resist the curse.... just bring a gun :/
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 15:24
#6
Even if you have full curse resistance etc....... its still not going to work too well, when you can just alchemer charge them.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 17:48
#7
Pretend I wrote something clever here
Thanks for the feedback. To clarify, I'm thinking of using the G as.part of a general loadout that focuses on support, status dealing, and eliminating difficult targets. I'm considering making the GF a part of that loadout, if I can find s way to fit it into the overall concept.
@Bopp: Thanks for confirming the basic concept is sound (if not the best possible tactic). Most of the weapons you mentioned are 5*, but I'm currently eqiuped with 3* gear. Do you know of any tactics/items in that level range that are effective?
@ Fehzor: I haven't been very impressed with the alchemer so far. Granted, I only have a mark 2 shadowed alchemer right now, but based its performance I'll upgrade to a blackhawk as soon as I can.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 18:05
#8
follow-up
@Bopp: Thanks for confirming the basic concept is sound (if not the best possible tactic). Most of the weapons you mentioned are 5*, but I'm currently eqiuped with 3* gear. Do you know of any tactics/items in that level range that are effective?
Sorry. By default I only discuss 5-star items, because that's how a player should plan his equipment, because that's where everything ends up (unless the player is focused on Tier-2 Lockdown). Are you asking about 3-star items, and tactics for them, to take out turrets? Then listen to Fehzor. Get yourself an elemental gun, because 2/3 of turrets are vulnerable to elemental, and the other 1/3 is neutral to it. You can search Google for something like "spiral knights forum elemental gun". Here's the short version:
* Argent Peacemaker: Easy to use, decent damage, but the charge takes too long.
* Polaris: Easy to use, decent damage, huge knockback; it's really a crowd-control weapon.
* Nova Driver: Harder to use, but higher damage in the hands of an expert.
* Storm, Magma, Hail Drivers: Like Nova, but they trade a little damage for status.
My personal recommendation is Nova or Storm. But it's true that the 3-star versions are far less awesome than the 5-star versions. Your inclination to abandon Umbra Driver for Sentenza is symptomatic of the fact that Sentenza (like Argent) is easy and Umbra (like other alchemers) is hard. Ultimately, use Argent if it makes you happy. Just don't be surprised if you come back to alchemers eventually.
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 18:46
#9
@Bopp
Ok, thanks for the advice. I've been following your advice of planning in terms of 5*, but have had trouble with the various weapons that are only obtained from RJ and the twins, since I haven't gotten to them yet (though I'm only one mission away from RJ). I'm not finding the alchemer hard so much as I'm find it's 3* version underwhelming and not in line with my playstyle ( and I'm not liking the idea of having to spend more money to find out if that trend will reverse).
Sat, 07/13/2013 - 18:58
#10
ricochets
Battlegrinder, I can understand not wanting to spend resources on a weapon that seems not very good. But when I say that alchemers are "hard", I mean that they're hard to use well. If you're bad at them, then they are weak. If you're good at them, then they are strong.
Mostly, it comes down to whether you can consistently land the ricochets. Doing so will actually double your damage output. For one thing, you need to have auto-targeting off.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 08:30
#11
The chance to inflict Curse on the user is a really huge difference between Faust and a vial. Subunity probability of cursing the target is another. Since it's neither reliable nor safe, the only practical use for a Faust's charge attack IMO is sharing heat at an arena heart fountain and at the end of a run. IMO, if risking self-inflicted Curse is even remotely near safe then Catalyser and Blaster are also plenty adequate for turrets.
Perhaps the most obvious alternative to [Gran] Faust projectiles would be [Divine] Avenger projectiles. They're Elemental rather than Shadow, which as noted by others is generally more useful for turrets. You also get 3 of them at 5-star and, from what I read, it even charges faster. An Alchemer would be better IMO since apparently skilled users can reliably pop turrets in one hit so they don't even wake up and attack. Either flavour of Pulsegun is also great due to the grotesque interrupt power; it takes a few hits, but is probably the safest and easiest way to take out a turret, so that's what I recommend if you're not confident in using an Alchemer.
I also find Pepperbox, Troika and Elemental Brandishes great for quickly squooshing turrets, so if you enjoy and learn to use either of those, you shouldn't need to look for a weapon specifically for turrets; anything with a ranged projectile will allow you do answer the occasional turret that you can't safely get up close to.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 08:41
#12
don't forget WRH
If you're willing to approach the turret, then don't forget about Warmaster Rocket Hammer. In many cases, 2/3 of a combo (that is, shield-cancelling after the dash) is enough to take out a turret (even a polyp, although the damage is neutral).
Battlegrinder, if you're still reading, then you've probably realized by now that charging Gran Faust is nowhere near the best option for taking out turrets. On the other hand, I agree that curse is fun. Use what you like.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 09:37
#13
Correction/clarification: for Faust, I was only talking about the charge attack, which I should have specified but didn't because I'm a derp.
Thanks, Bopp. I tend to forget about WRH since I don't have OCH access. For the same reason, I'm not familiar with that weapon; I've seen it in action a little bit, but that's not enough to recommend for or against it.
Drifting off-topic a bit, I agree that Curse is nice. I tried a Faust once upon a time, found the charge attack useless in any real fight since I don't like to risk getting hit with Curse. The second swing was by far my preferred means of inflicting it, but I wouldn't wanna tangle with a turret that way.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 12:03
#14
Man you guys who cry about self-curse are such babies. Here's a tip: try using more than two weapon slots. Or just equip divine veil. Presto. Problem solved.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 13:25
#15
Pretend I wrote something clever here
I'm planning to get OCH within the next couple of days, so I should be able to start trying out a stable rocket hammer soon. I haven't had much practice with shield cancelling, so I might stick to using my alchemer/blaster line guns for now. I'll probably get a silversix and start using that against turrets before I try alchemers or faust sniping or any of these other tactics. Thanks for your advice.
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 21:40
#16
We babies don't need a third or fourth weapon, we can handle things with just two. If a single piece of Divine set makes Curse only lock out one weapon, I'll have to try that. Catalyser is my go-to weapon for Shadow damage, and it looks like my second choice is gonna be the Alchemer, but Curse projectiles might be worth bothering with Divine. Thanks, Batty!
Sun, 07/14/2013 - 23:14
#17
Doesn't even have to be the alchemers. Pretty much anything short of a flourish is going to work better than gran faust charges. Warmaster Rocket Hammer, Dark Retribution, Combuster, Polaris, even things like Biohazard and Iron Slug are going to perform better. Reason being that it takes you ten minutes to charge your gran faust, and in those 10 minutes, you could have killed the turret. Then, you get a partial chance at cursing it. Gran faust's charge is best used against crowds of enemies with healers in them and large targets it can hit multiple times... like giant lichen colonies and the jelly king. In fact, thats pretty much the only time I charge it when I'm playing the game seriously and not just goofing off.
EDIT: Just saw that Larry posted, which means I have to argue with him, even if he's correct. You need to have more than just divine veil's curse resistance to free up a weapon slot- if you got a curse UV on it, you'd be well off. But you'd need that.
Other than that, curse is, much like ice, an all or nothing kind of status. You either have a ton of resistance for it, and are frozen rarely or not at all, or get frozen all the time for any period of time. The most likely thing that breaks ice? More ice attacks, which means that getting frozen for 3 seconds is about the same as getting frozen for 5 seconds.... its how often that matters. For curse resistance, you either have resistance/weapon slots, or you don't. If you have a usable weapon for the 30 seconds you get cursed, you'll be fine. If you don't, you get to run around dodging stuff.
Unless you have some curse resistance going on, I wouldn't use the GF charge against turrets. Self-cursing can be just as deadly as getting shot in the face, and is twice as annoying. Since the GF is a shadow/normal weapon type, it will work fine against constructs, and great against slimes, but you'd be better off using an elemental or shadow sword or gun. Alchemers and Pulsars are great weapons against Gun Puppies, as are the Rocket Hammer normal attacks and Divine Avenger charge attack. If you have a curse vial, go for it, but I wouldn't advise using a Gran Faust solely for turret-killing.