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Title: Three Rings continues same method of operation, what is in store for the future of SK

22 replies [Last post]
Mon, 07/15/2013 - 20:15
Fruitx

Subject: Elite mode first described in their thread http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/83402

At this time on the test server besides battle spirites, the major content update is something called difficulty modes with Elite mode being Three Rings answer to bored end game players. (The changes to reviving, crafting costs, equip limits and loot distribution can be considered as massive alteration to game mechanics not content)
If elite mode is just about making the same monsters and floors more laborious it doesn't change the fact that it is the same floors and monsters. It is still a wolver den, or the same decon zone, the same FSC and the same four Shadow Lair. Elite mode isn't a new experience and will not draw back players.

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Please think for a moment about the p2p, 1-player steam game Rogue Legacy. Beat the game, it allows you to continue on in "New Game+" with increased difficulty, beat the game again, continue on as "New Game++" etc... monster hp, bullet hell difficulty and gold drop climb in each "New Game+." There is a final difficulty setting something like New Game+9. However it is the same game, same dungeon floors, same bosses. If the Rogue Legacy developers decided to release a higher difficulty say +10, would it really attract more players or old players back. Someone could play for pride or have the goal of completing the games highest difficulty but it doesn't change the fact that it is the same game over and over.

A "new game +10 could be described as rehashing content.
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If a gun pup spews out 8 bullets or a kat dashes farther bites faster or a demo gremlin drops a few extra bombs or an alpha wolver bites 4x or bites 20x even, it is still the same thing. Would a retired SK gamer care if a rocket pup fired two missiles instead of one or if a cube jelly wiggled around a little faster?

If you were a Spiral Knight designer and one of the top complaints of your longtime players (such as in this locked post http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/78188) is Rehashing and Reskinning content, why fall into the same pitfall patch after patch.

Having higher difficulty higher reward might sound like a nice thing but elite mode is a halfhearted attempt to release the same old content jazzed up a bit. Elite mode is already being described as tedious and time consuming. Regardless of anything that happens players will always use cost benefit analysis to see if the increased crown drop is worth the increased time it would take to do the same exact floor on regular mode.
Players might end up saying, "thanks for the effort designers, not really worth my time, I still have crippling lag anyway, oh well I'll move on."
Does Three Rings really think that their best players will be satisfied and take the few extra crowns to look the other way and grind the same content they've been doing for the past two years? "Playing on increased difficulty will reward you with more loot" said a Three Rings developer, this is a bribe attempt. The past and present great players of Spiral Knights are not King Krogmo and do not have to accept this bribe.

I think this is one of the differences between calling it "elite mode" vs saying "hello knights this month's patches will open Tier 4." Tier 4 implies new content, new clockworks floors, new monsters/bosses/traps/puzzles/teamwork opportunities and strategy, maybe even new materials and weapon upgrades. Something like Tier 4 would be expected to have greater difficulty and reward but there would be more too it. The players would get the experience the greater depth, greater vision of the game designers, something that just might bring more life into the game and haven. Elite mode is a shallow idea and for Three Rings to use its limited manpower and resources on it might not prove to be very productive.
The design teams should be looking at the vitality and growth of Spiral knights with these questions aimed at the past, present and future: what are the reasons our players quit, what would entertain our end game players and what would attract new players to our game.

In terms of content, the player base wants something like Tier 4 or even expansion of tier 3 content, not to be bribed into more grinding of the same stuff under a different label.

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As a side note I also agree with some of the feedback in the test forum that it isn't worth investing time in a pet which can do a couple abilities per minute, the pet becomes just a novelty and afterthought. When a party of four chaos set wearing knights blast down clockwork/boss floors in 1-4 minutes per level, I doubt people like that need a pet to do their fighting.
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Thank you for your time and I wish you the absolute best in all aspects of life.

Edit: Please keep discussion about features on the preview server in the testing feedback forum. Thank you.

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 20:24
#1
Grimranger's picture
Grimranger
+1

Completely agree.
Since missions, the game has been getting much more repetive and boring.
You don't find people searching for stratums with arenas, you don't have people going through the 19-22 for that FSC run, it's just king of ashes over and over and over.
If OOO pushed out a T4, then the arena would have a meaning again.
Perhaps, the game would be fun again.
Also, battle sprites do seem very vain..you could spend what, 1000 of each mineral so that it'll do 100 damage every 20 seconds while you're spewing out brandish charge attacks every 3 seconds that do 700 damage + 225 damage from each explosion.

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 20:27
#2
Skyguarder's picture
Skyguarder
+1

What Grim said. We don't want to do FSC over and over again.

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 22:02
#3
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope
+2

And sadly when they add new stuff it just for tier 1 :/ thing like i feel they leave aside veteran players (i mean the "thing" they added for the next update it just for T1 players but i cant said more or your thread will get locked due its a "test" content).

of course we get the "new difficult settings" but its just the same thing, at least they can add it only to arcade, so arcade can worth a bit more than do the same missions, but hey they will add it too missions to so arcade will be dead again.

But oh well nothing we can do. but yeah i agree with you OP

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 22:30
#4
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
Subject: Why does it say title in front of the title?

Agree

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 23:02
#5
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I didn't read it all, but I know where you are going.

A word from Nick...

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 23:08
#6
Hollafamer's picture
Hollafamer
+1 million

Finally someone who gets the big picture. Op makes solid points throughout.

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 23:38
#7
Thunderbog's picture
Thunderbog
uh

Not solid enough.

I completely agree in all parts of this title, but lacks of certain importances of the 'new content'.

If one of the sentences such as "advancing the story" was told from the developers, ring the bell outside of my cave. I'd gladly say hello and listen.

Mon, 07/15/2013 - 23:54
#8
Archeops's picture
Archeops
Bump

I completely agree with OP and Grimranger. I started playing two or three days after public release and the only endgame-content that OOO has released for veteran players was Shadow Lairs. Which isn't even something that can be done often, because of the requirement for a 1800 ce shadow key. Everyone just does it a few times for the armor, and that's it, you're done. We want challenging, new, playable content, not just FSC. An addition of a new Tier would make delving into the clockworks much more enjoyable, and not a chore.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 00:30
#9
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The OP was too long, so I didn't read it.

But if I had read it, I'd probably tell the opening poster that the devs don't have to make more difficulties, and that there is a somewhat real problem where half the playerbase is too skilled and the other half stuck on the jelly king. That every time the developers make new content, the players get angry about it, or don't care, or are just impartial, and that they just whine about the payout, and even if they made a new boss that "replaced vanaduke" with a higher payout, it would be relatively purposeless and that repetitively doing this would likely lead to power creep. I'd also probably tell grimranger that the arcade is far from dead, and that I'd be willing to go on runs with her.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 00:32
#10
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright

the problem is not that many people don't want to grind vana for ce, the problem is that many people like that because of profit. that is why missions cannnot be removed, becuase we will lose lots of players. it wasn't a smart choice, but I think that the mission system, or at least a mission system, was intended to be in the game since the beginning. I mean, they did it in the charred court, even if it lasts only for one floor.
anyway, it needs to be reworked. like, you have to use mist on missions. that will stop ce grinders.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 00:42
#11
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
Autofire also makes a fair

Autofire also makes a fair point.

Though I still believe that if the game goes "in the direction it is", it'll become less and less fun. GMs/Devs can make comments that imply it isn't continuing in the same direction, like how nick did in Autofires link, but I need to see things.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 02:29
#12
Paweu's picture
Paweu
"I completely agree with OP

"I completely agree with OP and Grimranger. I started playing two or three days after public release and the only endgame-content that OOO has released for veteran players was Shadow Lairs. Which isn't even something that can be done often, because of the requirement for a 1800 ce shadow key. Everyone just does it a few times for the armor, and that's it, you're done. We want challenging, new, playable content, not just FSC. An addition of a new Tier would make delving into the clockworks much more enjoyable, and not a chore."

Right, because Danger Missions do not exist.

I've started playing the game in April 2011 and I'm still playing and I'm not bored. I've got some time clocked in. I will never understand the complaints about the game being boring and repetitive. You surely aren't just running with a DA or Brandish + Blitz FSC 24/7 like a madman, right? That is the only way the game would feel like that. I feel that the urge of the players to get the most crowns out of their energy should be called crownitis.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 02:53
#13
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
Making money is a prime

Making money is a prime motivator in most MMOs. Having fun should be more important, but when you make a game that forces you to choose between profit and play, you'll get either people complaining about grinding, or people complaining about items being too expensive. Players don't have to run through the chore of FSC grinding, but then they have to put up with not having as much money. The opposite is also true; players can get enough money, but then they have to grind FSC. What you need in a game like this is a fun way to make progress, not one way to progress and one way to have fun.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 03:25
#14
Mtax's picture
Mtax

New Game +?
Holy... this would be so great!!

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 03:36
#15
Paweu's picture
Paweu
@Orangeo

No matter what would you shove in the game, people would run FSC (or w/e has the biggest payout) anyway. Elevator passes on asian servers are a good measure of that.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 03:38
#16
Orangeo's picture
Orangeo
That's my point. The biggest

That's my point. The biggest payout should be the most enjoyable part. It should also be the most difficult part. Everything at once.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 03:40
#17
Paweu's picture
Paweu
That wouldn't fix much

That wouldn't fix much considering the "game is repetetive and thus boring" is the biggest complaint right after the "the game is too easy".

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 03:52
#18
Wolf-Fighter's picture
Wolf-Fighter
ok i have questions

1. can we still use energy for crafting and revive?

2. does this mean we can't do levels with 5* items?! i want still do the snarbolax with my 5 gear... cause i just have 5 star weapons and i don't make low level weaps for this shit thats just stupid if you can't do a level with high gear....(on the other side if the arcade still works on all tiers it's good)

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 05:04
#19
Lupxel's picture
Lupxel
@Thespychecker

[I do not have access to the test server,this is just what I think]

1. crafting = Alchemy Pods; revive = Sparks of Life
2. If you are vanguard,you can go everywhere, with any items.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 05:21
#20
Wolf-Fighter's picture
Wolf-Fighter
thats good im already

thats good im already vanguard... im 1 of the oldest players play this games already 2 years...(a bit more) hope the price isn't higher for crafting now...

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 05:35
#21
Paweu's picture
Paweu
It won't be worse than

It won't be worse than currently: orbs of alchemy will be sold in the supply depot for energy so most likely you will be able to use more mist than you can now in crafting higher star stuff. The orbs will also drop.

Tue, 07/16/2013 - 06:14
#22
Wolf-Fighter's picture
Wolf-Fighter
i don't want "lower costs"

i already craftet nearly all ... so i don't want lower cost they should stand on the price like the last 2 years... 800e for 5*...

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