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Where normal damage weapons and monster family bonuses are good...and where they are not.

10 replies [Last post]
Thu, 07/18/2013 - 11:06
Autofire's picture
Autofire

Hi! Currently, I say that all Normal damage weapons are underused. Sure, specialized damage can get you max DPS, but so can normal weapons. Wait, what?

For easy reference, Special damage means Piercing, Elemental, or Shadow. A weapon type means the types sword, gun, and bomb.

When to USE

Normal damage is good when you have limited weapon space. That goes without saying. If I only have two weapons, perchance I'm not going to be equipping two weapons of the same damage type, even if they are of different weapon types.

That brings me to my second point: even if you have a Special damage type, unless you are equipping two weapons of the same type, you might want a Normal damage weapon.

Lastly, it may be my personal preference to use a particular weapon type against all enemies in a single level, even if I only have one slot for that weapon.

For example, (This is a real example) I have just two weapons, a sword and a gun. I'm entering a Wolver Den. I want to use a gun for Beasts, so I take a Callahan, one of THE best guns for beasts, IMO. Then, in case I see any Polyps and Lumbers, I should take a Gran Faust, right?

WRONG! If I see a Silkwing, my sword won't do squat unless I beat the snap out of the Silkwing, but that takes too long! My gun doesn't do enough against Silkwings in a short enough time span. I want to be beating down the Wolvers instead of Silkwings. Well, why don't I take a piercing sword? But then what about polyps and lumbers? Well, I could take Umbra Driver or Toxic Catalyzer, but what if I really want to have the Callahan against beasts? Therefor, that leaves me back at the sword. I am stuck with a Normal damage sword, which is fine.

The fact is, taking a Normal sword is optimal because I want to be able to use it against all that can be thrown at me.

When NOT to use

If you have more than one of the same weapon type, having either one deal normal damage is inefficient unless it is your top preference to have that weapon in that damage type. For example, you love the Pulsars. So, you take two. (Supernova and Polaris) You can have all the Pulsar fun you want.

If you are fighting enemies which share weaknesses, then it's obvious to take just one damage type.

If you have many weapon slots or you don't care about what you use on what, and you are happy as long as you are getting criticals, you are likely just to take what is more effective for that level.

If you are in a party with players who's weapons make up for the lack of, let's say, having short range, then having just swords is very very viable. When in parties, the weaknesses of having just one weapon type are minimized. (As long as the people making up for your weaknesses are alive!)

Familly bonuses: why they are underused

When using just one weapon type, family bonuses are useless because they only effect one monster family. If you used a bonus just for that weapon, you could use whatever grants that bonus on any enemy and still get equal boost.

However, there is a flaw with doing the above. If you take just one weapon type, you won't have what is most effective for every situation. If you add another weapon type, it will suddenly lose out because it doesn't get the bonus.

This is where monster family bonuses come in. You can deal increased damage with any weapon, and often you only need one or two items to do this. (And you don't need Chaos.) Every level is themed for a particular enemy and that enemy is usually the predominant type, so you can deal with these enemies very effectively. If you can use all weapons properly, you are free to pull out any weapon you need for a particular case. My favorite is to use a gun during the approach, hopefully to keep the enemy flinch-locked or dodging, and then they are prime targets for up close assaults. (Which was made more viable because of the dash'n'bash moves.)

One thing which skews this whole thing is bombs, because CTR makes them many many times more effective. You'll likely want bomb CTR if you use bombs often at all. Fortunately, a single Volcanic Demo or Elite Boom Focus Mod can make up for this. (Though earlier on you are more limited.)

Conclusion

It seems that, despite popular recommendations, specializing in one weapon type isn't the most effective strategy. Your DPS could be far higher if you are more open minded. Yes, sometimes swords are most effective, but other times bombs and guns are much better, even if not safer. Bombs get the crowd faster as a whole, and guns can deal damage and range efficiently, or can pick off and prep enemies and mobs for a brutal assault.

Chose your weapons wisely, knights, and go forth into the depths! Do not be linear, because you could have much more fun otherwise.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 11:26
#1
Bopp's picture
Bopp
yep

Yes, this is all very reasonable. In fact, I say pretty much the same thing in the "Mixing Weapon Types" section of my sword guide (without going into such a detailed example).

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 11:55
#2
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

The thing is, this was made pretty much based off observation, as well as frustration at the closed-mindedness of the community. Also, this is much more based on a mix of weapons, as well as WHY you want a normal damage weapon even if you have a special weapon already.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 12:36
#3
Ninja-Gyles's picture
Ninja-Gyles
Thanks for this thread :D

I use Normal weapons almost all of the time, except in Lockdown anyway. And what you said about Guns and bombs is true, People might get mad at me for using my Master Blaster Bomb but oh well. :) <3 Valiance :D

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 13:13
#4
Bopp's picture
Bopp
bombs

The group-think that "normal weapons are bad" only really applies to swords and handguns. (Disclaimer: I may be one of the leading proponents of this group-think.) In my experience, even normal-haters like normal bombs. The reason is that bombs are so idiosyncratic in their effects --- big knockback, haze, shard, vortex, etc. --- that categorizing them by effect makes more sense than categorizing by damage type. Also, bomb explosions often hit monsters of multiple families, so it's hard to optimize the special damage anyway.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 13:21
#5
Ninja-Gyles's picture
Ninja-Gyles
@Bopp

That is partly why I use my Master Blaster Bomb! And because it is the easiest to get too. (Not that this thread is about me lol, just agreeing.)

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 13:28
#6
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Bopp

That's exactly why I applied this thread to guns and swords in the examples. Bombs, for one thing, are categorized by effect because there is no, say, shadow version of the blast bomb, while there is a shadow version of the Calibur. (Sorta, anyway.)

Actually, the real fix for this would be to make Brandishes more unique from Caliburs in the attack pattern instead of just copy-pasting it. That would make Calibur niche, just like the other Cobalt stuff.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 16:27
#7
Misten's picture
Misten
Just use combuster. It can

Just use combuster. It can kill anything, including beast and gremlim within reasonable time. Especially, if you utilized its charge. It has large amount of normal damage in it too.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 18:53
#8
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

If they don't nerf the Combuster before the year's out, I'll head my Groundbreaker Helmet, darn it!

That thing is far more OP than the shards! I mean, it BURNS DARN IT! The fire adds insult to injury, because if the enemy to hit with the charge miraculously lives through it, the fire will eat them. It's obvious: the Combustor is way too OP, and I would recommend anyone who wants it to NOT get it because it shall and will change. Mark my word...

Therefor, I will not consider it nor any of the other brandishes. They are pure OPness. I mean, since you are right, I would just use Combustor as my ONLY weapon if I just had to chose one to go through the whole game with. (Which is why I do not own it.)

It is actually the Brandishes, I believe, which makes everyone go swords. Bombs HAVE to be charged, which shys players away to use just them, and guns have somewhat low DPS, but Brandishes are very versital, acting as a sword (combo), a gun (range), and a bomb. (Hit area which pierces enemies.)

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 20:15
#9
Bopp's picture
Bopp
but, as you know

But, as you know, everyone was going swords long before the Brandishes were developed. (I mean, before there were any Brandish upgrades beyond the 2-star level.) But you are right that they are overpowered.

Thu, 07/18/2013 - 20:43
#10
Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

The game won't ever be balanced, because all of the weapons are in close competition with one another for the exact same roles. And even if they were balanced, we'd still see people complaining that they aren't. Normal weapons are mostly redundant, and are only really useful on levels like compounds, where you fight a large number of things.

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