Spiral Knights - Everyone is Sad

Everyone is Sad

16 replies [Last post]

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 07:43

div3

Legacy Username

Community, Y U NO man up and realize game is still new and it takes time to fix issues (especially big ones, like balancing, energy, auctioning, etc)?

3 Rings has done an awesome job rolling out bug fixes, updates, etc in the short amount of time the game has been out. Are we so spoiled as a community that we are demanding a super polished, completed, end-of-life quality game <6 months in?

Yes, it would appear so. If the whining doesn't stop, people won't read the forums (I'm about fed up). Seriously, this is how 3 Rings must feel about us at this point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn6jKGVxTbk

Voice issues, raise concerns, file bugs.. but don't whine so early in the game's life. Be respectful, and for the love of the Basil, think before you say something ("OMG balancing issues Chaos Cowl I don't even have or want to use WTF?"). There are *people* behind this game, and yes do they listen to you, because even though you are yelling and being a child, they have families to feed and depend on you as much as your newfound gaming addiction depends on them.

Sincerely,

Old Person Complaining

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 07:53

polaskaroid

Legacy Username

Thumbs Up

100% Agree Man !!!

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 08:17

Magnus

Legacy Username

You act like it takes time to

You act like it takes time to acknowledge said issues presented by the players.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 08:21

Syor

Legacy Username

Well

It's time to become a man! *Evolves*

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 08:50

kakelgis

Legacy Username

It seems you weren't around

It seems you weren't around in the preview times!

Because really, the balancing issues have all been around ever since I started playing, (that is, mid January - The game is actually older than that) and the problem isn't that they never did anything about it! The problem is that they did. But they did it so horribly wrong that things got worse. (and honestly, what Magnus said. Those issues have been around long enough to cause quite a bit of irritation and stuff between players, it should be obvious, and most are really just ridiculously easy to be fixed, even code-wise.)

As for people complaining about content? I don't think much needs to be said about that - I think there weren't any new levels released in about three months, except for Devilish Drudgery which aren't really so "new". Equipment? My main issue would be that there's quite a few equipment with ready graphics, stats and whatever seem to be ready too, (even if they aren't, this isn't something really difficult at all to code, is it?) but we never see them actually released!

And honestly, most people don't really whine that much about this. There are several plausible suggestions around, and complaining is minimal. (and I mean senseless complaining, or when people complain without adding actual suggestions. A bit of complaining thrown with your suggestions isn't that bad.)

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 08:51

div3

Legacy Username

C'mon Magnus

What you're asking for is a busy dev team to follow along with the forums. That's a $40k+/year community management job and usually requires special skills and *time* devs don't have (or don't want). Put yourself in their shoes - would you spend time on the forum responding to people who will complain no matter what instead of building stuff that they'll enjoy?

A dev blog would be ideal, but following the forums is a lot of work for someone who writes code or produces art all day (breaking the creative process is deadly to productivity).

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 09:07

Senshi

Legacy Username

Hmn...

My main issue would be that there's quite a few equipment with ready graphics, stats and whatever seem to be ready too, (even if they aren't, this isn't something really difficult at all to code, is it?) but we never see them actually released!

Depends on what you mean by 'code'... and whether or not those weapons have any new and not seen before effects or are just a re-juggling of existing abilities into new configurations. I know which I'd rather see ;)

(Ok, I'd like a 360 degree charge attack fire sword too, that's one rejuggling I'm in favor of ;) I envy those Firoknights... )

Also depends on what you mean by graphics.... every weapon needs new animation paths for each of its attacks (potentially 5 strike combo plus charge attack), as well as switch-weapon animation and running-around animation and possibly holding-while-shielded animation if the running-around position would be in a bad place when you pull your shield out. Maybe others. For multiple star level variants.

Also balancing. If you think they aren't doing a good job with balancing, do you think they'll do a better job balancing if they rush the release?

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 10:00

Green-Lantern

The balancing issues are

The balancing issues are seriously inexcusable when you think about it. All it takes is changing of some numbers or status effects (i.e. damage, defense, resists). I doubt there's a lot of coding required to change X Sword's weapon damage from 50 to 40. Just change the number. So there's no excuse for the major balancing issues... and they are major:

Way overpowered and/or everything else is just too underpowered for the current meta game so the result is these items feeling OP and/or the only real options unless you want to get slaughtered in Tier 3:

Vog Cub set
Shivermist
Grey Owlite
Divine Avenger
Leviathan
Volcanic Plate Shield
Omega Shell
Hail Driver
Storm Driver
Ash of Agni

And then the UP/not really viable in Tier 3 stuff considering there's other options that are vastly superior:

Wild Hunting Blade
Nova Driver
Iron Slug
Umbra Driver
Big Angry Bomb
Sentenza
Valiance
Volcanic Pepperbox
Furious Flamberge
Fearless Rigadoon
Irontech Destroyer
Entire Dread Skelly set
Entire Valkyrie set
Entire Royal Jelly set
Entire Ironmight set
Entire Deadly Virulisk set
Entire Dragon Scale set
Entire Chaos set
Entire Bombastic Demo set
Entire Azure set
Entire Justifier set

I'm probably missing a few. There's also a myriad of "solid, but not spectacular" items that I didn't list that are fine for Tier 3 but not on the level of those listed above.

My point is that... THIS is balanced? Please buff these items so we're not left with just a handful of options to be viable in tier 3 / Citadel / end game. It's an absolute joke.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 09:44

Senshi

Legacy Username

Hnhhh...

I have a very limited experience with 5* items, but I can assure you that the Umbra Driver is an -excellent- T3 weapon for deconstruction zones, and I expect it to be really good for danger rooms too when I finish my 5* armor. It mops up T2 danger rooms nicely, of course, but that goes without saying. If you go alchemer, you have to have an Umbra Driver, really, as a switch-out choice with your favorite element, or else have entire strata where you don't have a useful gun.

I think there's a big difference between 'unbalanced' and 'not suited for the only major boss yet released'. Add a boss that does piercing damage or has piercing-damaged guards on the way to him, and a whole lot of 'useless' armor will suddenly be valuable. Add a gremlin boss and suddenly Umbra Driver will be (even more) valuable. That said, I do think there are -some- balance issues, but I don't have enough experience with the 5* gear myself to be sure where they are.

(The piercing thing is weird though. Why only lichens? :o )

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 09:57

Green-Lantern

There may be an item or two

There may be an item or two in that list people disagree with. I knew when typing that up that there would be replies saying "What are ya talkin' about? X is awesome!" and that's totally cool, but for the most part it's an accurate list.

For example, I personally think Radiant Sun Shards is extremely underrated and actually dominant in Citadel.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 10:36

#10

div3

Legacy Username

Hrm..

See, I hear you guys when you say these issues have been around for a bit, but I guess I'm just wearing the software dev hat. I design web applications for a living, and I'm comparing these to my experience. They're big problems, but they don't prevent you from enjoying the game. They are also the kind of problems best fixed when you have a *lot* of data. Balancing is a good example of this.. The preview probably gave them some initial information, but you never really know until you've had some history.

I totally agree balancing has be fixed. DeckardCain nailed the problem and provided a thoughtful, intelligence response. We need more of that. My original post was in response to the *tone* from the community. Magnus is dead right that it's pretty easy to respond to issues, I just think you need the infrastructure/organization in place, but you have to justify it too, and that has to be weighed against making the game just work and be somewhat enjoyable.

Ultimately we never bought a completed product, so I don't think we have the right to get pissy. We just need to state the problems, back them up with facts, and move on.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 11:02

#11

Tanonev

I will always put something inane here.

While overall I'm ok with the rate of bugfixing/balancing/new content so far, as the game is new (with the exception of the interaction of energy revives and lag spikes; no matter how you slice it, "oops, your connection to our server hiccuped, and we don't know on which end, so you died; pay us monies to undo what happened" makes for a poor customer experience), I'm afraid OOO's reputation precedes them. Take the upcoming (?) auction house, for example. It may interest you to learn that OOO also promised an auction house (or consignment shop) when Puzzle Pirates was a new game. Now, EIGHT YEARS LATER, they still haven't delivered. Search for "Auction House". Given this fact, I can't help but worry that OOO isn't going to deliver here either.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 11:12

#12

Wire

Legacy Username

I like the game. I have fun

I like the game. I have fun playing. I have no complaints. I run dungeons: with friends, with strangers that then become friends, with my wife. I buy and sell for profit. I work my way to better gear.

My only concern is when I've maxed out my gear and get bored of the same dungeons... then what? We'll see when I get there.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:09

#13

OMGWTFBBQLOL

Legacy Username

Cake or Death?

The problem DeckardCain raised is pretty valid though. The sets that he listed as not viable? Well, some of those, like the Chaos set for example, leave no room for consideration really.

Let's just compare the Chaos Cowl and the Vog Cub Cap, for example. So in terms of stat bars, Vog cap outclasses the Chaos cowl in Normal damage defense and basically every status resist since Chaos only gives negative effects. Chaos cowl MIGHT match Vog's elemental defense, but I think we all can see the winner here. It's just a no-brainer to choose Vog over Chaos, even if we ignore the fact that the current end-game levels favor fire resist. This kind of item design leaves the players with no real decisions to make like, "Hmm, I can have phenomenal normal/elemental defense and sacrifice some status resist" or "I'll take the great status resists but suffer some hits to normal/elemental defense."

One of comedian Eddie Izzard's lines reflects the type of decision we players are left with perfectly in terms of armor choice: "cake or death?"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:36

#14

Azurenightmare

Not to mention the slew of

Not to mention the slew of equipment that not just doesn't go up till 5*, but is also pretty bad/outclassed at the levels it's at. Cautery sword anyone? Or every 1-2shot low * items? The only "single line" item I can actually see anyone using is swiftstrike buckler. And I've heard you get laughs for that.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 10:11

#15

Lokr

LOL, I love the old excuse,

LOL, I love the old excuse, They developers need to feed families. Even if they do a shoddy job, its the effort that counts hu?

Please give us hard numbers instead of just bars on stats already. This problem alone irritates me. It's like a guessing game with these stats. But then who knows, this must be the new content their talking about. Your next mission Spiral Knights! Discover what the real stats are from these vaguely drawn out power bars.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 13:11

#16

Sketchytexas

Legacy Username

Like others have been saying

Like others have been saying in the community since the patch/update came out, the SK team pretty much doesn't take into account what the community actually wants. Instead of making mats rarer to increase the value of items (like many people wanted), they jacked up the price of CE and Crowns to craft high-leveled items. Instead of trying to balance out the prices of endgame gear using methods such as the one mentioned (mats rarer), they removed value entirely by forcing them to be bound. Sure, they released an auction house...but what's the point of the auction house if you can't trade the equips that are really worthwhile (namely engame equips). Balancing is virtually nonexistent as well. Until the fix gets fixed, the game doesn't seem as fun anymore.