This issue has now been solved
Advanced Training Hall, Tier 3.
Yellow quills do 58 damage.
Green quills do 200.
"Upgrading" to this "ultimate" skill cuts your damage to 1/4 against the target you are actually attacking. Instead of vengeful quills adding some extra damage to some extra random target, the skill randomly assigns a different target to take the brunt of the damage. It ceases to be a reliable skill for damage.
Maybe they accidentally swapped the quills. But even if the extra quills are supposed to deal less damage, they could have mentioned it.
Yes, but I used to to be able to combine caustic quills with an autogun or a cutter for 2200 damage from just the quills. The total damage spread over the two enemies it hits is substantially less now since there is a limit of 4 quills per enemy. In math terms:
Caustic Quills:
11 x 200 = 2200
Vengeful Quills:
11 x 58 + 4 x 200 = 1438.
My total damage, if I manage to use the skill that optimally, is severely reduced. Even if I somehow have the psychic ability to know which enemy the quill is going to stack on and have someone with an autogun be ready to fire away to destroy every incoming quill, the total damage increase from it is still pretty low.
Well I guess I'm stuck with the stupid arms/ears. :(
And how do we know Virulent Quills aren't worse...?
You don't. The wisest move may be to simply not select an ultimate for quills yet.
If anyone has virulent quills, please chime in on this matter.
Yes master.
/worship Zeddy.
I don't want those gross arms ... but I don't want to have a wimpy pet ...
Oh dear ...
As countless fall into the trap of "NOT GETTING VENGEFUL QUILLS" but instead get VIRULENT QUILLS because Zeddy only said not to get the Vengeful Quills. In fact, that's all the instructions he gave to his followers. Really Zeddy? I do think "real science" wouldn't have spoken so prematurely. Test all the alternatives before misguiding the people who view your Word as Law. Not everyone thinks for themselves around here. Nor reads every comment apparently.
If they read into "don't get vengeful quills" as "get virulent quills" instead of "wait a few day until someone finds things out", that's their own fault. In either case, if vengeful quills is actually worse than Caustic, it doesn't matter if Virulent or any other ult is better or worse - you would be better off staying with Caustic.
I thought zeddy said the wisest move was to not get either ultimates o.o
The Ultimates are a semi-permanent choice. It's quite expensive to change them around, and as such I felt it important to get word out about such a severe downgrade as fast as possible, science be damned.
Tell you what, I'll change the topic title to be a bit less leading.
Does Vengeful poison all it's quilled targets, though? If so, it'd become a situational but useful counter to Menders and, to a lesser degree, Silkwings, for those that can't quite reach the little [REDACTED]s. At least, to a degree.
Hope this is a bug if not it is pretty misleading since it doesn't state this in the description for when you choose the ultimate.
You thought Vengeful Quills are bad. Virulent does abosuletely no damage on initial contact, they poison the target on first hit though (I think). Quills stick to target and any other hit makes them explode, for whooping 37 DMG (GTH, T3). Radius of explosion is pathetic, 1 tile, but with chance to poison everything inside that tiny radius. Poison lasts about 6-8 seconds and damage increase is about 3-8% depending on weapon (FF: 3%, GF: 7% for example) plus poison from explosion is a just a bit stronger than from quills. I'd say that damage wise Vengeful ones are obviously better choice, but I really thought ultimate skills will actually be upgrade not downgrade.
Do virulent quills also do less damage than caustic quills? Am I reading you correct on that?
They do no damage on initial hit. Only if you hit the target with your weapon it may cause explosion which deals 37 DMG, that's all.
That's how caustic quills always work, but that damage is indeed a severe downgrade.
I believe the damage for the ghost that come out in Haunted Haze is wrong as well. The regular damage ticks for 51 on the shufflebots in training while the ghost only do 7 damage which is similar to the amount of damage dealt by the quills in both Vengeful and Virulent.
Isn't that the point of the skill? You'd need some balance for a skill that causes quills to rebound and instantly land into other enemies and weakens them without you having to aim.
Aren't pets support? Why does the damage from their quills have to be such a big factor when you are able to poison 80-90% of groups of enemies just by aiming at 1.
Thats like saying "DON'T GET VENGEFUL SHADOW CLOAK" as it doesn't give an attack power and speed boost like Deadly Shadow Cloak. Each ultimate has it's advantages and disadvantages.
At the end of the day, your choice for skills is just down to your playstyle. If you want to only hit one target and potentially manage to inflict poison on nearby enemies from explosions - thats cool.
hadn, ultimates should be an upgrade. right now, as I can see, both vengeful and virulent quills ultimates are a downgrade. you actually do more damage with the normal attack than you do with the ultimates.
besides, I think that once zeddy will have enough data, he/she (not really sure atm) will start a threat titled "what is wrong with 60% of the ultimate moves"
I got Vengeful Shadow Cloak and am quite happy with it.
I'm not saying "Don't get Vengeful Quills because it's worse than Virulent Quills". I'm saying "Don't get either Ultimate because they're both worse than Caustic Quills."
so thanks Zed! :D
I'm enjoying using quills as a single target dps skill, seems like picking an ultimate would be unwise. If I recall ultimates were touted as being "markedly better" than their base skills, e.g. a direct upgrade, but quills appears to be a side-grade at best. Different, not better or worse.
also... those arms...
FEED MEEEE!
I'm afraid you need to spend that ultimate catalyst to level up to 90 no matter what. But you can avoid choosing an ultimate for the quills anyway.
Omg I remember that show.
The Maskeraith's arms remind me of a different character though. (Lol, that was hard to find an "appropriate" picture...I swear, I haven't read or watched it! I just... found out about the character. Somewhere. Look it doesn't matter! Stop reading my comment already!)
bu-bu-bu-bu.... hmmmmm, ok then.
@Hexzyle
That is indeed the safest image you could have found. Googling that character got me rule-34'd hard. In the mouth. And elsewhere.
Interesting. I'll stick with my downgraded vengeful quills for a week or two and then change them, just in case the devs read this and realize their folly.
I freakin' roflmaobbq'd at your comment XD
Though it's not rule 34: the entire series is just questionable. Just like everything else that ends with "Blade" :P Witchblade, Scarlet Blade, Ang... I think you get the picture. (How do I even KNOW the names of these ridiculous things?)
Oh god. I copied a LOT bunch of anime off a friend of mine a year ago, (it was literally just a copy+paste maneuver, I didn't check at all what I was getting) and it's in there. Along with that stupid Qwaser show.
It would be great to hear from the devs on this. I really want to know if this is just a bug, or the intended effect.
"Changes:
- Reduced the Attack Power of Caustic Quills"
Three cheers for OOO!
Um, might I ask...
I'm guessing you've tried shards, DR, or Nitro when you have Vengeful Quills? I would guess that the multiple hits would cause lots of bouncing, in effect causing your bombs to poison all the enemies in the group. Am I guessing right?
I didn't even know people used pet skills.
"Changes:
- Reduced the Attack Power of Caustic Quills"
Why did they have to do this!!!? /breaks down
Most of the time my Maskeraith does not respond and now when it would the damage would be low.
I looked that character up... You have now scarred me for life.. What perv made that anime? It isalmost as bad as the game dead or alive extreme 5... Now that game is sooo innapropriate I am not even putting a link... I would be banned..
guys, you stopped at the first paragraph? the power of the ultimates should be fixed.
inb4 zeddy returns here ranting.
I referenced a lot of stupid stuff in my post, so I don't know what you looked up XD
I don't know how I scarred you: text doesn't scar. Unless you used google's "search by image" function or some other graphic related nonsense. Tip for the future: Don't do that for things you don't know about :P
I still reel in horror thinking about the day someone said to me, "Hey, google image [Four letter word that rhymes with "hat"]"
Anyway the arms remind me more of Maskeraith remind me more of Dusclops and Dusknoir
Yeah, that's probably a far more child-friendly example, as would have been FLCL or Soul Eater. Certain images have been burnt into my memory though (and came to mind first) so that's probably why I mentioned that specific one. Too much time on the weird side of the internet will drive you ＭＡＤ (Link is safe, but weird)
... ... ... That video.. what...? What did I just watch...?!!!!
Look at the latest patch 2013-08-06! Wow...
187 for both yellow and green quills.
It's okay, guise, it's been fixed now. I don't mind the minor nerf, it was entirely called for, for the sake of Tier 1 and Tier 2. (Where it's still a bit OP regardless.)
>Comparing arms to Melona
>"that stupid Qwaser show"
You and me are going to get along just fine, Hexzyle, just fine.
You sure? I named my Aeria armor alt "Belgooru". That's how corrupted I've become. >;)
And that's something you CAN google and you'll never find out what it is unless you actually know what I'm referring to. ^_^ It takes one to know one.
@Hexzyle
Yeah...I'm just not gonna google that pic XD
Ummm I was wondering HOW you get the green quills, do you have to lv up?
Evolve most likely, I remember at level 75, it has green color.
Sounds like a bug. It's still useful for poisoning stuff, though!