I'm a hardcore T3 demo(most of you know me), but I've been wondering if Lockdown is more than a striker fest. Is it worth demoing in T3 Lockdown? I mean, aside from haze noobs who think that demoing is just spamming haze bombs, is ACTUAL demoing worth it? I know I can't out damage strikers even at Ultra or Max damage bonus because the devs decided that even noobs should see how big the bomb explosion is going to be as well as when it's going to blow. Honestly all I can do is capture and hold points as a demo. But even that is difficult because of the high volume of Lockdown idiots who think that damage is everything. I like to win in Lockdown. I play to win. So I ask again, is it even worth it?
Is demoing in T3 Lockdown worth it?
You just keep spamming those hazes and you're bound to make two people quit every match, so long as they aren't shock resistant or whatever :>
Ever tried shiver? It's rather viable now that most people aren't Skolver clones and boy is it hilarious to get threatened to death because you're usinga weapon they can't counter.
For a more serious answer, do as you please. Damage doesn't mean too much, despite what those jerkface strikers think. LD is about holding points and nothing holds points like bombing so I say, bomb if that's what you truly want. I personally play just fine as a generic striker, definitely quite a bit above average but that doesn't mean I think it's the most fun. The most fun is ofc running around in █████████ █████ ████ and BKC. It's rather tanky. Just wish I had a VV but grabbing one with CTR low, which I highly desire, is rather hard.
I like demoing in lockdown but I really wish that demos can compete with swordies and gunners in terms of damage. Still, demoing is fun as hell.
I got most damage in a few matches yesterday with my new striker bomber loadout. Granted, I do compliment my bomb with a Faust, but I defintely owed my victories to the DBB I was boosting into cap points, spamming like mad.
Your biggest enemies will be gunslingers, so concentrate on some means to deal with those.
I go full bomber most of the time since I have a haze bomb to compliment my nitrome. I have to rely on teammates to take them down, but most of my teammates are downright idiots who go chase some other guy. I can't go strike bomber because I don't have uvs or trinkets, so I go mostly recon and guardian. I have gotten over 10k damage just with nitrome before, so yeah I can damage like crazy.
Dude there are SO not enough Demos
When I used to be full on active LD had a mixture, then people realised Skolver/Chaos cloning or Vog Cub will do more dmg or whatever, and so boom, uniqueness left Bessie's a few people
My point, KEEP on demoing!!!
-Museπ√
"I mean, aside from haze noobs who think that demoing is just spamming haze bombs, is ACTUAL demoing worth it? -Zephyrgon
*Hiccup* Yerr, noh TRUE scotsmannnn! *Waves whisky bottle angrily.*
"Ever tried shiver? It's rather viable now that most people aren't Skolver clones and boy is it hilarious to get threatened to death because you're usinga weapon they can't counter." -Krakob
Aye.
I find a lot of fun in mixing a haze cocktail with four hazebombs while capturing a point, then watching chaos strikers run straight into it. Insanely hilarious every time. The panic! The suspense! The drama! Ho ho ho.
"I really, really love when peeps out there go shiver I'm not going' against what you said". But I use snarby coat and skolvy cap so I get full resistance(for freeze). Thing I love doing the most is............ "when enemies use shiv and since they don't affect me I just stand there looking at my teammates being absolutely useless, usually Guardian kills me 'cause I'm laughing to hard ". But its so funny xD
@Weedalot
Calm down Demoman, go get your eye back from Merasmus.
I REALLY hate seeing a full mad bomber or a full chaos or even a full mercurial demo using all haze bombs and nothing else. That's what I mean by haze noobs. I don't mean people who supplant a haze bomb to swords and guns. I just really hate these kinds of people.
"Calm down Demoman, go get your eye back from Merasmus." -Shadowgreyleader
GET TAE &%@&
"I REALLY hate seeing a full mad bomber or a full chaos or even a full mercurial demo using all haze bombs and nothing else. That's what I mean by haze noobs. I don't mean people who supplant a haze bomb to swords and guns. I just really hate these kinds of people." -Zephyrgon
Yerr, and maybe I just really hate "your" kind of people who uses nitro with a haze as supplant just because I can too.
But seriously, you said it yourself:
"Honestly all I can do is capture and hold points as a demo."
Bombers often end up holding points for the team, and I find that haze bombs does this well, so what's wrong with that? Why are you acting all stuck-up? Hazes are amazing at neutralizing targets and it makes it easy for your team mates to dispose of them quicker. You're starting to sound like one of them skolverclones yourself, bragging about your damage and how other sets are n00by.
"But even that is difficult because of the high volume of Lockdown idiots who think that damage is everything."
"I like demoing in lockdown but I really wish that demos can compete with swordies and gunners in terms of damage."
"I have gotten over 10k damage just with nitrome before, so yeah I can damage like crazy."
My main problems are:
1) Not a lot of people help me capture
2) Barely anyone covers me when I'm capturing or holding a point
3) People with damage bonuses on their bombs but don't utilize them on damage oriented bombs
In all honesty, I just want some bloody teamwork. Is that too much to ask?
"1) Not a lot of people help me capture"
"2) Barely anyone covers me when I'm capturing or holding a point"
No need to take it out on the haze-bombin' haze-bombers. I usually hold a point until it's captured/clear. It's not like I can run off and hunt people with the haze bombs anyway.
"3) People with damage bonuses on their bombs but don't utilize them on damage oriented bombs"
Well, it's a fair point. However, the small blast of a haze bomb can deliver quite a hit to enemies. I've had skolverclones walk around in my hazes, thinking they're no big deal, but after a couple of hits from the blasts, they often turn to dash for the healing pads (in which case it may be too late for them because of shock/fire).
Also, if I'm feeling like having a bit of striker-bomber fun, I might grab tight on my AoA and go for some damage.
"In all honesty, I just want some bloody teamwork. Is that too much to ask?"
Well, don't ask me, go ask the clones.
And I still don't know why you decided to rip on haze-bombing and how you hate all haze-bombers. Some clarifying would be appreciated...
I love haze bombers. It's the ones with damage bonuses that I can't stand. They're wasting the damage bonus.
I try to bring teamwork. For example, I see two strikers facing off at a contested point. I provide backup by going in there and dropping a crowd control haze bomb or even a nitrome. Whatever does the guy on my team do? This guy runs AS FAR AWAY FROM IT as possible, instead of using it to his/her advantage. I demo defensively, but it's quite difficult when barely anyone cooperates with you.
I love haze bombers. It's the ones with damage bonuses that I can't stand. They're wasting the damage bonus.
As opposed to wearing what exactly? If you're bombing you're more at risk from guns than swords, of which nearly all the notable ones deal Elemental damage so defensively it's not as though they could really be better equipped than Mercurial Demo, or to a lesser extent Bombastic. Sure I guess you could argue they'd be marginally better off with like Grey Feather, but it's negligible for the most part.
I mean for Chaos and Mad I can sort of get that Volcanic would be better, if using Guardian or Striker, but the difference really isn't worth making a whole 'nother set for if they don't it already
Yeah I understand that part. But I'm saying that you need to put a damage bomb in there somewhere to get the most out of the suit. You're an absolute noob if you can't see that. You'd willingly invest in a mad bomber or chaos set if you know you can't use weapons that would deal damage? Seriously...
Why care what we're wearing? I mean, honestly, what if I just invested in mad because I do have damage bombs but it's also my only suit and I feel better hazing LD'ers?
You don't know what the person really has going on. Seriously.
If I want to wear a mohawk while I'm throwing my hands up in the air and pirouetting like a ballerina before dropping a spherical payload that magically makes red circles in the ground all the time, then let me. Play your game, others can play theirs. Tactics can help, but, if you're in RLD just expect everyone to be a proto wearing polaris spammer as much as they'll be an effective key player.
The reason many bombers haze is because haze bombing is the way to bomb if you want to be easy on everyone's eyes.
"Yeah I understand that part. But I'm saying that you need to put a damage bomb in there somewhere to get the most out of the suit." -Zephyrgon
You're such a hypocrite, it's not even funny.
You want to deal damage by bombing, yet you call out "Lockdown idiots who think that damage is everything" in your own OP. You don't think people can deal damage by haze-bombing. You say haze-bombers can use any suit, as long as it is volcanic 'cause that way they wouldn't "waste" any damage bonuses. And to top it off you continuously use names at people.
What gives?
I could write so much here to explain why you're wrong, but I'd rather have your explain your reasoning more... If there is more, that is.
You're really not that clever of a person eh? Of the three, demos are widely regarded as the class that can deal the least amount of damage in PvE. Demos need to be able to deal damage in PvE as well. Damage isn't everything though, especially for a demo. Do you even play a a demo? I doubt it. Because if you did, you'd realize that it's better to use a full volcanic with full haze bombs than a mad bomber. Lockdown idiots? Yes, these are the people who think damage is everything, who don't want to cap any points, who would rather fight pointless battles rather than back up teammates in need. Demos can't become these types of idiots, well the good ones primarily, because they realize that because of blast radii, they become predictable and easy to evade, hence the low damage output.
You really need to elaborate more, because you're trying to tie in things in a way that doesn't make that much sense.
@Skold-the-Drac
Dude if you do have damage bombs, would it hurt to at least equip just one? Like you said, I don't know what's going on with people like that, but still there is no logic in not utilizing a suit to its maximum potential. Haze bombing is there for utility only, and it's the type of bombing most people are accustomed to. So do what you want.
I'd recomend Guardian if you're going to go bombing. You're not going to take points, but a guardian bomber who's alert can have 3-4 of the enemy team trying to kill them for a good 30 seconds. That time is VITAL. Redhawkeone is a master of this.
You wont win fights or damage scores, but you will win games.
"You're really not that clever of a person eh?" -Zephyrgon
That's uncalled for.
"Do you even play a a demo? I doubt it. Because if you did, you'd realize that it's better to use a full volcanic with full haze bombs than a mad bomber."
*Rolls eyes.*
Well yes, but then, not everyone feels like making a completely new set just for hazebombing in Lockdown. I've done lots of hazebombing in full mad bomber, and I can say that the damage bonus still is handy when people are chasing you around in your hazes or when you have someone trapped in hazes, but with no teammates who can quickly eliminate them. Recently, I switched to full mercurial and I'm in love with the movement speed increase and shock protection, and that's not something volcanic can provide. Haze-bombing often makes people pull out their polarises, and having some good shock resistance feels wonderful, especially since I can freely walk around in VTs too.
Also, you can use hazebombs alone to kill aggressors, and a damage bonus would help you with that. Just like with any other weapon. Not only that, but as Skold-The-Drac mentioned, it doesn't have that flashbang effect on everyone while still providing safe zones for teammates. As you said yourself earlier, people doesn't tend to stay around you and protect you at all times. They die, they run to the next point, they chase other people etc. Having the option to protect yourself with some damage bonus-boosted haze-bombs while capturing can work wonders during matches.
Going back to the original question, yes, 'actual' demoing can be worth it, but generally not on its own. Blast lines can be effective for area denial (combination of knockback, decent damage and stun), but are much more effective for dealing damage when layered with hazes to slow/immobilize the other team and provide you with some breathing room between blasts. DBB can be an excellent defense against other bombers, but the times that you find yourself solo vs. another solo bomber are few and far between--and won't help much against anyone with one piece of mercurial--so I generally find AoA to have more utility. I have never had any luck with DR in LD, no matter the dmg bonus. Layering DRs you just seem to wind up canceling too much of the damage potential. The new shards would be AMAZING and deadly, but buggy hit limit, so meh.
Anyway, tldr; it's true that you're just not going to keep up with strikers on damage output, but the non-haze bombs can still fill a useful niche in LD.
Re: equipment, I have killed many unwary strikers using hazes with a damage bonus. A striker tosses around some polaris, you drop a haze and back off the cap so they assume you are retreating. They charge onto the cap thinking they just have to suffer through the haze, they fall over dead and confused from the initial blast. I have one piece of volc demo, but only use it if an opposing bomber brings out an AoA--it's just too easy to get max CTR, or very close to it, while still wearing equipment with more general utility (like merc demo, for the MSI and shock resistance). If you are playing guardian, the class bomb CTR bonus gets you up to CTR ultra with a fully heated bomb and one 5* trinket (or a decent CTR UV), and playing recon you just need a fully heated bomb. I know you already know this (the class bonuses, I mean), but my point being that I think you have the argument a bit backward: in either case, unless you are going striker-bomber, the CTR bonuses from going full volc demo, mad bomber or chaos sets are just as 'wasted' as you argue a dmg bonus is when not packing a non-haze bomb. I would much rather wear gear that gives me better def/status resists/adds other supplemental bonuses, regardless of whether or not they are living up to their full potential by packing a nitro, BAB or what-have-you. Anyway, just my opinion.
Dude i say stay doing what your doing , be unique !!!!!!! There are already so many strikers and skolver/chaos clone out there its fun to see that one good demo in a RLD game and try to kill them ;P.
P.S DMG does not show your skill it shows how much you can kill some one and pretty much anyone can do that * rolls eyes *