After venturing into the new advanced training hall and spending a good five minutes inside I was a bit disappointed by the lack of content it held. It's basically just another tutorial. For those players who are uninterested in the market it could pose as an alternative to standing in Haven because your energy ran out. But besides that, I see no point to it. Besides being inaccurate ( spikes dealing normal damage what ), having contents just thrown in there ( random construct blocks what ), it doesn't do much for the noobies. They'll go in and come out in ten minutes max. Perhaps if they added an invincible enemy I could see myself practicing shield timing and evasion in the near future. But even that seems unlikely. Anyone else disappointed by the new advanced training hall?
What's the point of advanced training hall?
Whats an Advanced Training Hall? All I saw was an Advanced Waste of Time.
It's there because it teaches you things the tutorial didn't. This way, new players have a way to learn what each status effect does, what each vial does, how different blocks work, and how to shield-shove before they step into the Clockworks and have it shouted at them by people who hate newbs.
The people who get this stuff shouted at them tend to share a common IQ with a tree stump. The game is fairly intuitive on the surface (which is all the ATH offers). The hours spent programming that epic fail could have been put towards improving the original tutorial (which would've been faster and more efficient, and the time saved could've been put towards something that didn't suck.
Don't touch those spikes!
Advanced indeed.
It's there because it teaches you things the tutorial didn't. This way, new players have a way to learn what each status effect does, what each vial does, how different blocks work, and how to shield-shove before they step into the Clockworks and have it shouted at them by people who hate newbs.
@Gigafreak
But everything in the advanced training hall is practically learned after completing tier1. Learning your vials is as easy as looking up and hovering your mouse on the vials to see their description. That, or having the noobies visit our wiki. I just think OOO should be gearing toward gaining the interest of players who have finished tier 1. There's exactly NO point in having the advanced training hall. Everything "learned' inside is information you should already have a grasp of after playing through a few dungeons.
If they, however, managed to incorporate information about the types of damage you can take ( ex: Pierce, normal, shadow, elemental ) then I would be at least appreciative of OOO's attempt to inform new players that SK isn't as simple as it looks.
The people who get this stuff shouted at them tend to share a common IQ with a tree stump. The game is fairly intuitive on the surface (which is all the ATH offers). The hours spent programming that epic fail could have been put towards improving the original tutorial (which would've been faster and more efficient, and the time saved could've been put towards something that didn't suck.
@Geminiman005
In adding advanced training hall vs improving the tutorial, I would probably go with the advanced training hall. Even though it's piece of crap made by devs who chose to spend their time and funds unwisely, I'd prefer it one million times more than a one-time tutorial. I agree, more time could have been spent establishing something that didn't completely suck. But seeing as how OOO updates SK rarely I doubt that would have been a possible alternative.
Nobody told me the vials COULD be mouseovered. A new player is probably going to be too busy trying the game out to look into the wiki (seriously, how many people read manuals anymore? I read them, and I read the wiki before starting, but the vast majority of people I meet... don't). It took a lot of (painful) experimentation to figure out how shield-shoving worked, and there's no time to ask about it in combat: to type a question is to either stop fighting or fall behind, and doing either of these can get you killed or even kicked. You need to look at this from a new player's point of view-- they need this information somewhere in-game that doesn't put pressure on them. Emphasis on the words "in-game."
Eh? it's a place to futz around, and play around with stuff without cost. There are a number of things worth complaining about that came out of the last patch, but this isn't one of them.
Agreeing with Sirrocco. Its good for new players, and the tutorial levels don't really cover all of that to my knowledge (though it would be good for players to know before leaving the training camp I'd think). Its really not that bad, its small and not what I was expecting, but I think its a decent addition that someone will benefit from, but not anyone who already has mastered / figured out how it all works. So who cares? I doubt they wasted THAT much time on it. Hell that could've been something they had set up as a test environment, and they just cleaned it up and made it public. :P
To be honest, the Rescue Camp levels were waaaay more advanced because there was actual challenge and interaction in them.
I was really disappointed with the Training Hall. I really though it'd be interesting and interactive, but really, it's mostly "hey look at this thing, it does stuff.".
It'd be really interesting if there was an actual obstacle course of sorts, some actual challenging mobs of different families, maybe a sandbag to beat up for fun. Something that would actually give it a point to visiting the Training Hall more than once or twice.
And as a note: Everything deals normal there because it counts as a Tier 1 area.
It doesn't even teach players the important of shield bouncing.
I like the Advance training, although why they haven't more explicitly shown or explained that coins heat and hearts are shared I don't know. I can't tell you the number of tier 1 runs I've done with people who complained I was getting all the coins.... :P Also I REALLY like the idea of a dueling bot. It would be great to be able to summon a specific mob type and practice fighting them
if you own a hamster you'd build him a playground right? i guess they server the same purpose.
I was hoping you could pick an enemy type and fight them to see how your equips work.
Like, I pick "t2 gunpuppy", go into the room, and get 6 puppies shooting at me to practice shield timing and dodging the bullets.
Instead... mecha cubes you can shove. Like, okay, I appreciate the effort but that's not what I expected under "advanced". At all.
Since the tutorial is already there, I don't get why they don't just improve that and make Advanced Training Hall for players who want to step up their game.
Increasing the difficulty to tier 3 (spikes do piercing, explosions do elemental, curse does shadow) and putting more emphasis on shielding and actually telling you what status ailments do would be very good, but no one listens to me.
The only good part is the snipes, as usual!
EDIT:
ONE MORE THING
YOU SHOULD TRY TO LIMIT CAPSULE DROPPING IN THE AREA
lol maybe they will add an x-men style danger room later on. its a good idea :)
and youre right calling it "advanced" is a bit of a misnomer
it for beginner not advanced
@LoneKnight
I like that idea. Wait. That's a lie. I love that idea. But to be fair it seems like a lot of work on OOO's behalf. Or maybe a mini arena where monsters would keep spawning and spawning and you would have to destroy them with a party of 8. That, too, seems like a lot of work on OOO's behalf. But I'm not at all amused by the hall of advanced derping, and I wish they'd had released something more suited to advanced, incredibly skilled, veteran spiral knights ( anyone past tier 1 ).
@djbiznatch
Lol. You beat me to it. Yeah, a "danger" room would be nice. Very nice, actually. Still implying you lose nothing and gain nothing of course.
Training Hall for Invalids is a much better title.
"Advanced" really is a bit of a misnomer. Honestly, most (if not all) of the stuff in the training hall was in the "training levels" at the Rescue Camp during preview (beta). It's nice to have it in haven as a "refresher" or as an "in case you missed it", but it really belongs in the Rescue Camp..
Shooting for the moon, what would be really awesome would be to open up "the east side" (players who were here for the preview know what I'm talking about). The east side would contain 10 "mini gates" - one for each stratum type. Each mini gate would contain would have one level per tier, and that level would be an arena. The arena would contain "captured monsters" from that stratum type, and since they're "captured", they would drop no heat/crowns, just hearts/vials. Since its not producing heat/crowns, there would be no elevator costs, it would however be a place where players could practice their combat techniques against a specific type of monster/stratum.
The Training Hall was built to introduce new players to things not covered in the Rescue Camp levels, particularly the use of pickups and status traps.
I'd like the fact that I've learned all this stuff IN THE ACTUALY GAME...
Go make more weapons/armor OOO, dont make (#*$ like this.
While you're at it, make a PVP arena... Imbalanced? I dont frikking care...
Design a new boss...
Yeah that's the good stuff... not this...
Advanced waste of time...
The people who get this stuff shouted at them tend to share a common IQ with a tree stump.
Speaking as someone who has only been playing for less than a week, I'd just like to point out that I learned about the Shield Shove while in THE JELLY KING'S PALACE. Knowing about it BEFORE that point might have saved me a few headaches with Wolvers and such. At the very least, I wouldn't have been trying to figure this stuff out at perhaps the worst possible time for experimentation.
I remember there being a suggestion on the forums to implement a training hall for people to hit dummy monsters with. The goal was to be able to test how much damage weapons do at different depths (to aid with theory crafting / discovery of game mechanics).
I'm guessing they just skimmed over the suggestion without really understanding what the suggestion was about and made a training hall which doesn't do much. Either that or what was asked of them was too hard or too much work to implement so they just gave us what we have now.
I enjoyed learning about the Clockworks and its monsters just through exploration and experience, but since this building is here I think there are some really cool things that could be done with the space, a lot of which have already been suggested, but it's worth repeating if it gets heard.
Some possible improvements to the ATH:
-Firing Range: This would basically be an area where (for perhaps a small fee) you'd be able to try out different weapons so that you can get a feel for them before making a large investment.
-Enemy Generation Area: Imagine being able to walk up to a vending machine, click on whatever type of monster you want, clicking multiple times to face more of them at once, clicking confirm and having them all appear in an area for you to fight. This could also be implemented through the "East Side" that Zingman is talking about. (see above)
-Arena: A place where we can face off against other players in one-on-one (or possibly 4-on-4) combat. It could be pretty sweet, especially if there were betting on fights, though a way to see your opponent's equipment and past arena history so you'd know if it was a fair fight would help.
-Possibility of Damage/Death: This one was actually already fixed. Way to go OOO. Though perhaps something could be mention how it costs energy when you're in the Clockworks.
I hope to see the ATH become something that even truly advanced players will see value in, and that all players will want to return to.
It teaches you how to set people aflame by throwing a fire pot at them while they are near walls. Yes, it works. It's fun running up to an unsuspecting player and setting them ablaze and seeing them go "whut the (information redacted)" when they try to fling a fire pot at you and it passes straight through you.
...We need moar advanced training bots to simulate each type of behaviour. You know, Dodger bots, Gunner bots, Camouflager bots, SUPERFASTRUNUPTOYOUANDHITYOU(like greavers) bots, and combinations of those behaviours. Them mecha-jelly cubes are too easy to take down.
darned mouse
I had so much fun killing the shield bash monsters in one hit. There were like 4 newbies in there with proto gear, spamming away at them but barely dealing any damage. I come in with my sword, and kill all of them in one combo.
I went afk for 1 minute, and found out that they were trying to take advantage of my position next to the exploding creates to kill me. They then chased me around, threw vials and various pots and me, lit me on fire several times, and told me to go away. I stayed, and one hit their precious monsters (invoking a substantial amount of newbie rage) for the next five minutes. I left then because I was getting bored. They probably threw a little party or something.
Well I'm new to the game, only a couple of days and the new ATH so far has taught me one thing. How to shield shove enemies away from me that I find particularly useful indeed! But other than that, I'm happy with the uses of the Auction house instead implemented this patch lol
Well if it's there as a tutorial hall shouldn't it be mandatory for new players?
It seems like most of you haven't actually joined random parties. Believe it or not, there are players that DO lack these basic skills.
@Awesomest which is why I had to kill the JK by myself in a party of 4 without fire and curse and only my vile striker. The rest were dead >_>
Meanwhile, advance training should be teaching things that "advanced" players don't even know how to deal with such as...
Grievers (and griever packs, ie Pulling)
T3 Gremlin Packs + Healer
"Tanking" (Keeping attention on a mob for your party, ie Trojans)
Self Shocking Quicksilver (How to deal with them in a danger room)
Oilers (Kiting and Removing lit ones with frost attacks)
Phantoms (Kiting)
Everything in the ATH is taught in the tutorial levels in rescue camp. Apparently the problem is people breeze through the rescue camp without learning anything. You'd think the fix would be to make the tutorials harder to ignore in the rescue camp instead of duplicating the work in some useless addon. It's like building a whole new road because the signpost fell off the pole next to the old road.
You could put the ATH into the "mission" section like with the mineral guy and stuff.
The one thing I currently use the training hall for is a free way to check the quality of my connection. It certainly beats spending 10 energy to discover that levels are currently unplayable because enemies completely disregard walls for seconds at a time.
It's called the advanced training hall, it would be nice if it had a tangible benefit. For example, say you could go to the training hall and lvl 1/2* gear up to lvl 3 or4 fighting their lil robo cubes. That way someone who just upgraded new items (early in the game progress when it is so tough to be self-sufficient) could go lvl them up a few lvls==advanced training. Just a free small time investment to help players get a head early in the game, or break-even sooner.
It seems like most of you haven't actually joined random parties. Believe it or not, there are players that DO lack these basic skills.
This man speaks the Truth.
It has happened countless times, often resulting in a total Jelly King fail and me crying tears of blood.
Yeah, I don't mind the advanced training hall at all.
Why are the enemies in the shield pushing area (the only worthwhile area) even possible to destroy, let alone having such low hp? I spent a while watching and didn't see even one player using his shield as intended, they all just went in and tore them up with swords or guns not learning anything.
How about making the enemies in there nigh invincible, take little to no knockback and aggressively corner players but not actually attack them? Did you have any intent of actually teaching the technique?
For that matter, add something to force players to learn reviving others. Add it in the REAL tutorial preferably, but here if you have decided for whatever reason not to touch the tutorial. I see a lot of tier 1 players and some tier 2 players who do not know that this is even possible and too many others who think that it's inferior to reviving with energy.
Mention that you can drop items by dragging them. I don't care where, put it on a loading screen if you must (for that matter, make the loading screen tips more useful and more eye catching, illustrated guides with a couple of small screenshots would be noticed). Suggest that players do this when they encounter an item that is more useful.
Have a section of the training hall dedicated to interrupting attacks.
Add a gun puppy hall obstacle course with very high damage or specific programming to require getting through unscathed, or a shooting gallery area like the spiral court kat shooting gallery to teach dodging techniques.
Add a section which shows the enemy targeting circles such as those of homing missiles and phantoms.
Do something to point out the benefits of cutting short combos and especially of shield cancelling.
Most of the training hall is currently dedicated to stage gimmicks and repeating basic information from the tutorial. It is hopeless.
Oh, and provide npcs who repeat and expand on the floating hints by each section. People like interacting and are more likely to read this way, plus you can include a better explanation and supplementary information.
One thing that people are consistently unaware of is the ability to drag and drop vials and vitapods in order to remove them from their inventory. Same with reordering vials in their inventory. Mention that they can do should drop their useful vials if going up in an elevator when the rest of the party is continuing on.
This is an important enough skill that it should be included in the loading screen tips.
Why are the enemies in the shield pushing area (the only worthwhile area) even possible to destroy, let alone having such low hp? I spent a while watching and didn't see even one player using his shield as intended, they all just went in and tore them up with swords or guns not learning anything.
How about making the enemies in there nigh invincible, take little to no knockback and aggressively corner players but not actually attack them? Did you have any intent of actually teaching the technique?
For that matter, add something to force players to learn reviving others. Add it in the REAL tutorial preferably, but here if you have decided for whatever reason not to touch the tutorial. I see a lot of tier 1 players and some tier 2 players who do not know that this is even possible and too many others who think that it's inferior to reviving with energy.
Mention that you can drop items by dragging them. I don't care where, put it on a loading screen if you must (for that matter, make the loading screen tips more useful and more eye catching, illustrated guides with a couple of small screenshots would be noticed). Suggest that players do this when they encounter an item that is more useful.
Have a section of the training hall dedicated to interrupting attacks.
Add a gun puppy hall obstacle course with very high damage or specific programming to require getting through unscathed, or a shooting gallery area like the spiral court kat shooting gallery to teach dodging techniques.
Add a section which shows the enemy targeting circles such as those of homing missiles and phantoms.
Do something to point out the benefits of cutting short combos and especially of shield cancelling.
Most of the training hall is currently dedicated to stage gimmicks and repeating basic information from the tutorial. It is hopeless.
Oh, and provide npcs who repeat and expand on the floating hints by each section. People like interacting and are more likely to read this way, plus you can include a better explanation and supplementary information.
.
That's what I thought exactly. Newbies would go in and slash slash slash away and come out 10 seconds later, learning nothing. I do, sometimes, practice shielding and shoving but it's really hard when the enemies have the hostility capacity of a newborn puppy.
Meanwhile, advance training should be teaching things that "advanced" players don't even know how to deal with such as...
Grievers (and griever packs, ie Pulling)
T3 Gremlin Packs + Healer
"Tanking" (Keeping attention on a mob for your party, ie Trojans)
Self Shocking Quicksilver (How to deal with them in a danger room)
Oilers (Kiting and Removing lit ones with frost attacks)
Phantoms (Kiting)
Yes. I can't say anymore than this. This is just perfect. This is what would put the "advanced" in advanced training hall.
The Hall needs a room with one each of various monsters, so people can learn their attack patterns and such. Then it will be much better. Right now it's more of a 'Basic Training Hall'.
I get the idea of an 'ingame manual' that they're going for here, but it needs more stuff in it before it really becomes that.
Extremely. I didn't see anything advanced about it.