This is not really an important topic but...
So after doing a bunch of elite runs, it suddenly occur to me how powerful those lumber whacks really are. To your shield at least. I've fought both trojans and lumbers in T3 elite mode, and I suddenly realized something: Lumber whacks do more damage than Trojan slashes (to my shield at least). Every time I shield against a single lumber whack in elite mode, it automatically breaks my shield, stuns me and inflicts whatever element status that lumber is aligned with. But when I block a Trojan slash, despite me being sent flying across the room, my shield doesn't break despite losing a bunch of HP (my shield, that is).
I am just wondering... Why does a piece of wood with maybe some metal platings on it that sends me only a bit of distance damage my shield more than a giant metal sword strike that causes an impact capable of sending me flying across the entire room and shattering apart of the ground with demonic energy leaking out of the crater? Not to mention that the lumber strikes are way quicker and smaller than the trojan's heavy slashes, and that lumbers are much more numerous than that of the trojans, which tends to be considered be powerful enough to almost never have more than in a battle apart from Firestorm Citadel, which only have at most two in a battle at a time. =P
Edit: Was using a Barbarous Thorn Shield.
Power of Lumbers (to shields)
I use volcanic plate. Even with this epic normal defense, lumbers are like "f that noise", and still beark through like a butter knife thru hot butter.
Mmhmm ohhh yrahh baby
yhr club has heavier mass moving fsster. Becsuse of the mrchanical sysyem
system, this causes a nuch greater impulse that a sw).
Compare a pickaxe vr a steel bar. Swung at the same speed, which would cause more dmg to a ribcage, a pickaxe, or a metal bar? Pickaxe, because of speed of heavier mass
Simple physicsord with an even weight distribution
Simple physics. Higher mass at faster speed equaks greater momentum, and greater force of impact.
Although I personally don't think wooden clubs are heavier than giant metal swords, if we assume that the faster moving club is indeed stronger, there's still some other questions raised. Why does the trojan slash send me flying much farther, have a MUCH larger area of damage upon impact with the ground, and damage the ground more than the lumber whack does? EDIT: Also, the arm of the lumber isn't necessarily moving faster than the trojan's sword, the trojan just takes more time pulling its sword back before bringing it down than the lumber does for its arm.
It's just that Lumbers do Elemental, while Trojans do pure Normal(on slashes).
That would be contradictory to the wiki, though. The wiki states that Lumber do both Elemental and Normal with their attack while Trojan slashes do both Normal and Shadow. Unless that was a mistake in the wiki... Then someone better go fix that.
EDIT: Then again... It could be that the damage is not evenly split, just like how our weapons can do both normal and something else at the same time without an even split in damage types. Is that a possibility? *stares at devs for answers*
Its possible, but we'd need a Dev or Admin to explain that probably Cyderiax
Yeah, I remember from past discussion that damage split from Trojans are still primarily Normal based with a splash of Shadow, while Lumbers are somewhat equal amounts of Normal and Elemental. Also I believe the strength of the stun-potential is more potent from the Lumbers as well.
If you ever wanted to do further testing for these, a good method with shields would have to come from something like Omega Shield, as it has no special attributes nor status resistance, just plain high Normal damage resistance and high shield HP.
Hmm, thx Volrbamus! =D
I get my shield smashed in Stratum 5 by lumbers, Trojans destroy my BTB, but do no damage - I just fly around the room, usually into fire.
Volebamus, I love your name XD
XD I think Volebamus has a cool name also, and lmfao Krns I am not even gonna ask... XD
That's because the power of lumbers have the power of anger.
It's because Lumbers don't move their arms, they move Cradle.
Your shield breaks because it has the entire weight of Cradle crushing it, not the Lumber's measly arms, duh...
Lumbers deal normal, elemental, their designated status, and stun. Trojans slams just do normal and stun.
Shields in general feel..weak, even when the shield resist the type of damage they still can't take more than 3 hits in most cases
They aren't so long as you bring an appropriate shield. Really.
You're **** if you fight the freezing ones. Especially if you use Chaos Cloak, your fate is sealed. There is no escape if you do not have status pills. Only a party member can save you.
Heater or Owlite is what you need for Lumbers, not BTS.
Lumbers are less.... mobile than trojans anyways. Simple balance logic.
No dash, stronger smash.
It looks like the only reason any of the shields break is because of the lack of Stun Resistance. Apparently, that's the major breaking point for the shield. (most likely due to it being strong-stun)
Did a test with fully heated shields from a normal Lumber @D19 - Elite:
*A Volcanic Plate Shield (Normal Medium) survived one attack with 20% of its Health Remaining
*An Ironmight Plate Shield (Shadow Medium) survived one attack with 20% of its Health Remaining
*A Royal Jelly Shield (Piercing High) survived one attack with 15% of its Health Remaining
*A Dragon Scale Shield (Normal Low) instantly broke.
*A Grey Owlite Shield (Piercing Medium) survived one attack with 5% of its Health Remaining
*A Barbarous Thorn Shield (Elemental High/Normal Medium) instantly broke.
and damage taken because why not:
*A Lv5 Dragon Scale Set took 10.5 Pips of Health from a single strike
*A fully heated Chaos Set took 8 Pips of Health from a single strike
*A Lv5 Ancient Plate Set (Elemental Medium) took 9 Pips of Health from a single strike
The main reason why the Shield Breaks is because of the Status. As long as you have that Maximum Status Resistance there, you should be able to survive one direct hit from it.
I thought that Trojans did normal damage in Tier 1 and shadow damage in Tier 2 and Tier 3...
Lumbers are really overpowered, but that is the funny thing that one or two of them appear in clockwork tunnels almost always (without to be a Construct/Gremlin depth).
Oh, and be careful if you play alone in a freeze depth and a Silversap smashs you...
ANGELIC AURA BABY
@Hexzyle
They're more normal so you most certainly might be better off with Ancient or Volcanic Plate.
Actually, Lumbers inflict more Elemental than Normal damage. It is indeed a mix but Elemental outweighs Normal by a large amount.
Lumbers are designed as "time bomb" enemies. Basically you either stay on your toes and acknowledge their presence, or you scream YOLO and get punished for it.
If anyone plays swordie, please bash kite them away from the group and take them on solo, thank you :)
Nope: They'll break Volcanic Plate in one hit. At least, most do, probably aside from the toasty and standard ones. Silversap? Vilewood? Kiss you health goodbye if you try to shield that.
If your VPS has an appropriate UV, it might be able to take the hit, if it's strong enough.
Gravelord, I find that info incorrect.
If you look at my post here, a Royal Jelly Shield can take a direct hit from a basic Lumber and it has far-less Normal Defense than a Volcanic Plate Shield even if the Volcanic Plate Shield was Level 1, it'd still have higher defense than a Royal Jelly Shield.
This may not be correct for other Lumbers though unless the only damage applied is Stun instead of their secondary status.
EDIT: For Proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEHv_KSuLU0
Lumbers smoosh you because they are smooshing you over the top of the head (like a nail) Trojans send you flying because they're swinging at you rather than trying to hammer you into the ground?
Nope: They'll break Volcanic Plate in one hit. At least, most do, probably aside from the toasty and standard ones.
Lol, they only bring my APS to yellow, red if I'm playing on elite ^_^
I remember having a Silversap destroy my shield in one go, on Elite in Stratum 5 (in one of the first two levels there, if memory serves). My VPS has Shock Low, which was essentially useless. I tend to attack at long range after that.
For the record, at the time I found this there was already several posts, and I can't quite keep my concentration on reading long lines of text anymore. I ended up completely missing your post because of that.
Perhaps it was made this way for balance reasons. Think about it:
-Trojans have a shield on their front, turn VERY fast, and have more health than Lumbers, as well as being able to boost their damage and dash across rooms to hit you.
-Lumbers are vulnerable from everywhere, turn slowly, move slowly, have quite a bit of health (but less than Trojans) but attack faster than Trojans, and have a much shorter range than Trojans as they can't dash across rooms.
-Ergo, Lumbers got a damage buff to make them a little more than underpowered Trojans.
Lumbers spawn much more often than Trojans, but I don't think that the difference in spawn rates makes enough of a difference to change the Lumber's attack power by so much.
Also, Stone Tortoise FTW, it doesn't break to 1 hit from EITHER Lumbers or Trojans in T3.
Glacies, you are incorrect. Your data is taken from depth 19 - my fully-heated Volcanic Plate Shield with no UVs can also withstand a Lumber attack from that depth. It's depths in late stratum 5 and stratum 6 where Lumbers break a VPS in one hit.
If anything, your data confirms what Gravelord-Caste was saying: out of the shields you tested, none of them are able to withstand a single Lumber attack in lower depths than what you tested.
I'd also like to see more indepth tests for the Ancient Plate Shield and the Omega Shell, because as far as I can tell, those are the only two shields that have the possibility of withstanding a direct lumber smash without UVs.
I'll be more than willing to try a Strata 6 with these shields for more info. I cannot do Omega Shell as I'm still looking for a Normal Max one and as for Ancient Plate, it's only Level 1 but I can still test with it I guess.
I simply did Depth 19 since it was guaranteed that I'd run into a Lumber.
I'm not sure if this is on topic, but on the subject of damage VS Shield health, I found an odd... reaction... from a Slush puppy in Depth 20 (this was using VPS Shock: Low):
100% health (no status) Damage inflicted VS VPS: 40%
100% health (poisoned by Kikazaru's quills) inflicted Damage: 50%
50% health (no status) Damage inflicted: 60%
-----------
For the record, the Masqeraith was using a basic Dark harness. The caustic Quills was maxed out on all skill points, and I was using the Decon 2 perk.
/r Ulmyr: I was in depth 19 or 20 when I fought that Silversap, but my memory's not exactly reliable.
Or just put Lumbers in charge of the forge.
I thought Gremlins and Lumbers did only normal damage on Tier 3. I was sadly disappointed when I did a deconstruction zone, and how my Ancient Plate Shield did worst than my Grey Owlite Shield, getting totally destroyed on a first hit from those Mecha bots' charge attack. The Grey Owlite Shield is slightly better than the Ancient Plate Shield against lumbers and gremlins? Well, I only have it to heat level 2, so maybe it could be because of that...
But yeah, maybe that's why those stun resist shields hold up so well against Vanaduke, Lumbers, Gremlins, and Trojans. Because of stun resist, right? I guess I will stick to use my Ancient Plate Shield on Decon Zones and Emerald valleys.
Gremlins and Lumbers were modified to deal split normal and elemental damage a good number of months ago, so the amount of times when a pure-normal shield is better than a more specialized shield in tier 3 are very small.
Well, that sucks. I got that shield just specifically for decon zones and emrald axis. Pretty much my Ancient Plate Shield isn't of very good use for me. As far as fighting Trojans and Lord Vanaduke, having shadow and fire resist on a shield are far more important, considering that the mobs and area of effect are more of a threat than fighting those stun-giving enemies.
DON'T NERF THE LUMBERS TOO! THEY ARE SOOOO EASY, JUST DON'T GET HIT!
/endcapslock
Lumbers are dangerous in groups lol
Very few people in this thread have asked for Lumbers to be nerfed.
I don't want them to be nerfed either, if only due to the fact that it's trivially easy to stay at a distance and whittle them down with guns, or just bait their attacks, sidestep, and hit them with two full sword combos.
I think you've mistaken the purpose of this thread. We're discussing Lumbers versus Trojans and looking for shields that can withstand Lumber hits, not petitioning for existing shields to withstand Lumber attacks.
About the only type of Lumber that's truly dangerous is a Silversap, and mostly because if you mess up outside of a group and don't have a Maskeraith, you're going to die.
...Just put them in charge of the Forge. They won't complain...
My findings indicate Trojans are Lumbers have the exact same amount of hit points. Do you have any data to back up your claims?
Holy blubber nuggets, lots of you posted after me =O
Also... Stop turning SK into mathematical equations its a Vog damn game!!!!
This is about fun, try proto in T2 Ltd, and get only caps? Try trolling people in LD with proto guns, and proto armor?
HAVE FUN stop turning Trojans, and constructs into math, instead beat the crap outta dem!
xwert, you are talking about zeddy. one say you will see this and laugh.
.-.
Its not threat to me if I use my mega magnus againts them since its piercing and the bullets fast I use dash when they get near me.
Sorry, nope, except what other people in the thread seem to be saying: Lumbers apparently do more damage than Trojans on the swing.
Incorrect. Trojan Slams do Giant damage, that's the same amount of total damage as Lumbers and Grimalkin bites do.
The Trojan dash deals Brute damage, which is also dealt by Alpha Wolvers, Ice Cube slams, Howlitzer Kamikazes, all Overtimer attacks, and Blast Boxes.
On depth 1, Giant damage is 30, and although I haven't gotten the exact value, it's estimated to be around 503 on depth 23.
Brute damage is 25, which would be estimated to be 418 damage on depth 23.
Trojan's "ATTACK UP!" ability increases their attack power to a whopping 166%, allowing them to deal 50(833) damage with their slam.
Hit Points (HP) = health, not attack power.
I know, it makes no sense.
Looks like I post at the wrong thread :/
For my 5* shield, it breaks in 1 hit from a direct hit from both lumber and trojan on elite in tier3. So i can't compare.