Spiral Knights - The forge works so keep it (maybe with tweaking)

The forge works so keep it (maybe with tweaking)

17 replies [Last post]

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 03:38

Wafflz

I see a lot of threads about the forge being broken and ruining the game ect..

I just wanted to state my personally opinion on why i think the forge is a much better solution to micro transactions that CE was.

First off CE was terrible and only getting worse. When the game first came out I played it and the CE system worked because CE cost around 3500 to 4000 crowns for 100 ce.. this worked because even at a lower level running tier 1 clockworks you would make around 5500 to 6000 crowns or more depending on the tier.. This was great because if you were not a pay to player like me then you always had a profit margin if you worked hard not to die and make sure to collect all loot..

This all changed later on and especially with the introduction of the mission system where you seldom made enough crowns to cover the elevator costs.. it got to the point where CE was 8000 crowns for a hundred and running 10 levels (100 CE) seldom ever granted you enough Crowns to make up for the 100 CE you spent.. putting you in the red and thus making the game unplayable for FTP players. Yes i realize some will argue that you got 100 free energy per day but that in itself is limiting your play time before you start to actually lose money (Especially for beginners which is the worst customer base to screw over) Also I do realize that certain missions netted you a VERY slight profit.. and were talking in the 100 - 500 crown ranges, and that’s with no deaths. With that king of a profit margin you had to play A LOT to be FTP.. and hell I mean A LOT!!!!

Now I realize that the forge is expensive and I even agree that it could be reworked slightly. possibly allowing a cheaper alternative 100 percent success rate with no bonuses for the non gambler. This is irrelevant to what I am talking about however. The forge works simply because you no longer have to pay for elevators, the game really is free to play finally.. so you can make the crowns to trade for
energy or pick up the drops in the clockworks. The other reason it works?

THE PRICE OF THE FORGE IS NOT COMMUNITY CONTROLLED!!!!!!

this was by far the worst part about the CE system is it just kept getting worse and worse and there was nothing OOO could do about it without drastically changing the game... so they did a la the forge system!! And yes I realize that CE is still community controlled price wise but that is irrelevant since u can farm crystals and because you don't have to cover level costs so you can just play more levels and make more crowns if the price of CE goes up.. sure you would have to play more... but isnt that the point of the game.. TO PLAY!!!!

There honestly isn’t much more to be said in this regard. You can play as long as you want with no penalties. So what if the forge is expensive.. if you want your gear really fast the be a pay to play sucker..

The hole point of the game is to play it, the forge allows you to play as much as you want as long and as often as you want and you are ALWAYS MAKING PROFIT!!! ALWAYS!!!!

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 03:50

Thunder-The-Bright

please move to general discussions, this is not a suggestion.
as for the forge expenses, to buy crystals (nobody does it, but whatever) you still have to pay with ce, which price is community controlled, with the consequences you described. or, you can grind for it like the previous system. soo it pretty much changed nothing. apart from the fact you have to grind a lot more to get the crystals for the high levels.

Tue, 08/13/2013 - 04:07

Remove-The-Forge

The amount of times you've

The amount of times you've put forge and a positive word in the same sentence is a crime. .-.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 04:35

Wafflz

you dont get the point

ive been playing spiral knights since it came out and the forge is better than the ce system im sorry but your missing the point

in the very worst case senario u have to grind the same amount as with the CE system.. i have a very hard time beleaving there is more grinding involved with the forge as ive experianced the differing systems over the years. the point is now you dont have to grind the first two levels of jelly palace 100 times a day... you can .. you know.. actually play the game and run the clockworks..

its a way better system and promotes playing and experiancing EVERYTHING the game has to offer as opposed to grinding of a certain few levels over and over and over again

its especially good for begginers and people like me who used to spend upwards of 500 CE a day on runs

plus i even said in my original post that it could probably use some tweeking.. but its still hands down a way better system than CE which locked you into a routine of so few levels that could actually make you money that the game wasnt worth playing hardly at all.. and the game was nearly unplayable for begginers wanting to play for more than an hour a day

it also take care of rediculous things such as not wanting to play with friends or guild mates because of it not being cost effective because of elevator costs vs crowns made

am i saying the forge is perfect.. no i never once said that i simply think its at least a step in the right direction away from CE to somthing more managable

the fact is you can say it changed nothing but really it changed everything... you can now play the game as it was intended.. you can play any level of your choosing and still be making headway... instead of playing the same 5 levels over and over until you cant stand the game anymore.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:04

Remove-The-Forge

ive been playing spiral

ive been playing spiral knights since it came out

You're not the only one, actually.

Yet this would require a lot of your time. Something casual players just can't do.

plus i even said in my original post that it could probably use some tweeking.. but its still hands down a way better system than CE

Die.

you can now play the game as it was intended

I intend to level a lot of items at once. Now I cannot do this as this requires me to play a lot of my time, something I cannot do because I have other stuff to do in my life... you know?

the fact is you can say it changed nothing but really it changed everything

For the worse, you mean.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:26

Thunder-The-Bright

cirno, please. you don't have to play for long to get what you want. 10 mins is enough, maybe 30 if you want to go on pair stratums. it's not like you are chained to your chair or something. you have all the free time of your life for leveling an item, and while you wait there's the possibility of a tweak.
also, how didn't you complain about ce before? there was lots of grinding even then.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:29

Remove-The-Forge

I would go to the other

I would go to the other people who said this and tell them. Their response will be the same as mine.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:34

Thunder-The-Bright

mr cirno/nafrascan, if you make alts on the same account then switch name on the forums, all your messages will be changed. I know becuase I tried. so, you have to get an alt.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:36

Remove-The-Forge

I know, right?

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:53

Addy

Cirno is now giving death

Cirno is now giving death threats over a difference of opinion. :(

I too love the Forge. I guess that means I should die too.

Edit: Cirno has changed his name apparently?

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:37

#10

Remove-The-Forge

Saying 'Die' is a death

Saying 'Die' is a death threat? What.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:57

#11

Ulmyr

If you want to be truly

If you want to be truly technical, I guess it's just a command to commit suicide or otherwise die.

I'm not going to be singing the praises of the Forge system either, but you could stand to be a bit more reasonable about this... that sort of extremism will only turn others against you.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 14:57

#12

Agent-Fungoose

I love a good Nicholas Cage

I love a good Nicholas Cage meme. *claps* indeed

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 15:24

#13

Sweet-Hope

Cirno = Nafracsan = Nascarfan (Nafracsan is just the inverse of Nascarfan)

and even if you post a lot of time with a lot of alts you will get a call from Eury for "sockpuppeting".

Forge? nah isnt a problem, sure would be a problem if you only grind vanaduke or jelly king, sure you will get orbs sparks and some cristal but you cant level up quickly your gear. me? i just do an elite run depeding on which tier i want to farm. and boy oh boy i just level quick my gear like i did before the update with vanaduke run, now i have the chance to play again clockworks without worrying for profit because elite pay pretty well in arcade. even i get tons of spark of life there doing arenas and danger room (actually i have 140 spark of life) i get a lot of fire crystal (lol im about to reach 1000 fire crystal of 5 stars and im going to farm for 4 stars :P) and you know what? i have the luxury to spent always 100% on forge because you know? i do arcade run which fill my inventory with crystals, sparks and orbs now i can craft 3 star gear for guildies newbies lol.

This update its pretty well one of good patch that spiral could implement. and really revived the game and somewhat, arcade and im looking how OOO will give full life to arcade. but for now, this game really step up where it fall before, (lol i feel like 2011 when i was waiting in the elevator for the new arena old good times).

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 15:53

#14

Merethif

@Sweet-Hope

@Sweet-Hope
So how come I also do ONLY ELITE ARCADE T3 RUNS, yet I would need over 600 Radiant Crystals to level up ONCE all my max heated 5* items that are in the Forge, yet I have only about 60 Radiant Crystals?

Additional notes (not related to question above):
- I don't care about sparks, I haven't used one so far and to be honest I didn't checked where they actually are in my arsenal.
- I don't care about orbs because I can't craft anything anyway until I level up all my 4* items up to 10 - and it will take AGES.
- I always used to play Arcade mostly. I was never grinding King of Ashes (I'm playing since beta and I have just one Crest of Almire and 10 Almirian Seals. It means I beat FSC only about 15 times during whole my SK life). I totally don't get all that "now we can play Arcade" bu$%&it. Why haven't you play Arcade before?!!! I did. And many others too.

SOLUTION:
IMO the only good solution would be to SLOW DOWN heating process. So I don't get yet another max heated item every two or three levels that I can't lvl up.

Wed, 08/14/2013 - 16:38

#15

Feline-Grenadier

@Merethif

From what I read, many players think that heating crystals are too grindy, too long, too tedious. Upping the amount required for reaching another level only serves to lengthen the amount of grinding it takes, which would probably bring back the FSC / JK trend, since those missions yield high crown and heat [actual heat, not crystals]. I'm not sure if that would be a good solution.

Unless you meant removing the forge system and bringing back the old heat system, only making it longer. In that case, you'd remove some revenue from OOO AND bring back the FSC / JK trend.

Thu, 08/15/2013 - 09:34

#16

Sweet-Hope

@merethif

I totally don't get all that "now we can play Arcade" bu$%&it. Why haven't you play Arcade before?!!! I did. And many others too.

i really played arcade before, but you know... playing alone while i can do it i just get bored because i like to play CooP Games, now.. since missions got introduced and KoA/FSC was the best place to farm Cr/heat... well where do you think most of my guildies and friends where? FSC/KoA of course! so... they never get out of there and just going with me to arcada to the depth 23 just for some recipes... after depth 23 was a solo travel to the core making me feel nostalgic about the old times when i started to play in june2011 when i discover the game and the nice Coop Mode System it have. Believe me or not, with this update, now with mist gone, and a difficult mode where people get more rewards on higher skills, i see more people on my friend list doing arcade rather than "KoA".

if you never have this trouble well you are lucky, because you meet awesome people who just play the game for it coop mode, while i meet awesome people that i can trust and all, but they just need Cr, CE to upgrade their gear. and thats the reason why they only grind FSC/KOA.

now with this new system even old friends who did that for "profit" started to play again arcade with me like the old times. but well i dont expect you can understand this since you never have this trouble.

but i really like it, how many of my friends returned to the game and started to leave FSC/KOA to play an awesome T3 Run on arcade with full 4 arenas like old times (well we only need the old AI back and for sure im going to say like old times!)

Honestly this was a pretty bad run for me: http://oi43.tinypic.com/rirjb5.jpg

most of my friends got even 3 eternal orbs, 4 spark of life, and from the whole run i only got (besides mats an crowns) 3 spark of life, 1 eternal orb and 72 radiant cristal. Doing arenas, dangers rooms exploring the whole level and going in group so everyone can get their stuff from boxes.

one of the things i honestly dont know if the party "size" affect to the drops of the boxes, since a friend of mine says "i dont want to go alone to danger missions when i get to the end i only get less stuff, when im going on group i get lot of crystals and items" so honestly i cant tell you if party sizes affect but for me at least this its what we got most of times from boxes: http://oi41.tinypic.com/2ihvwy8.jpg (even there was another 3 radiant crystals behind that luminite mineral) even my friend got a radiant forge box at the end of that arena after he leveled up his vile striker to 10 (damn lucky guy)

for that reason i dont see forge a big trouble. just the same thing with a lot of steps to do what you did before.

Thu, 08/15/2013 - 03:47

#17

Merethif

@Vinnydime
My suggestion was to slow down heating while keeping Forge as it is. Now I got more heat then Crystals and it makes "bottleneck" situation in my Forge. Usually I heat up weapon in 2-3 levels, while I need full T3 run to actually level it up. So after one T3 run I have three max heated items and I can level up one of them only. After second such run I'd have 5 (2 from previous one) max heated items, yet I still could level up only one. After third run I'd have 7 max heated items, still I could level up only one. After fourth such T3 run I'd have 9 max heated items and so on... you see the picture.

Probably my problem is, that I had already quite a few 5* items on level 6 and above when the system was introduced. I guess for veterans with limited arsenal (I mean one armour set (Divine Veil + Skovler/Snarbolax Coat), Barbarous Thorn Shield and only two loadouts: FSC (DA+Blitz+Shivermist) & LD (BTB+Polaris)) it might not be an issue - they probably have all those must-have items already at level 10. Likewise for newer players who just start amassing their arsenal it works fine because they are usually focused on one or two items only.

To sum things up, Forge isn't such an issue. New UI was an issue and I still have problem with that. Forge is not anything near that seerius. The important items in my arsenal are already level 10. Those collecting dust in Forge are mostly things like Biohazard or Volcanic Pepperbox - things that I've started making some time ago to check out something new, test other styles of play, have some fun. Now I'd rather stick to my good ol' Alchemers and other essentials - as far as I know, it is something OOO wanted to avoid.

@Sweet-Hope
I'm very happy that so many players are back in the Arcade, whether I find their reasons reasonable or not ;-)
The theory about party size influence is worth checking out. I very rarely play in four persons party, so there may be something behind this theory. I'm not math-lover so I haven't been collecting any data so far, but I might start collecting number of crystals I got in various runs depending on party size.

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The forge works so keep it (maybe with tweaking)